Dallas Convention Center

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tamtagon
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby tamtagon » 05 Feb 2022 11:28

If not adding an MLB stadium to the facility, then build a new meeting, exhibition and presentation conglomeration. I'll all for the new billion dollar convention center that spans the highway, is contiguous with the HSR station, renovates the light rail route connections and has an appealing façade.

itsjrd1964
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby itsjrd1964 » 09 Feb 2022 14:38

The City Council has voted to go ahead with demolition and replacement of the Convention Center.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2022/02 ... on-center/

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potatocoins
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby potatocoins » 09 Feb 2022 15:54

I have no idea if this is a good idea financially, but I'm glad this huge behemoth of a building is being completely replaced by something that will integrate with the surrounding area better.

According to city consultants and staff, tearing down the current convention center could open up 29 to 40 acres of land in the area. They envision a new mixed-use entertainment district connecting downtown to the Cedars neighborhood.

This sounds cool if they could connect the two areas well!

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 09 Feb 2022 19:33

Image

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eburress
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 09 Feb 2022 22:22

There's already a lot of vacant land down there that nobody's building on...

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby jetnd87 » 10 Feb 2022 07:58

One argument is that they're not building on it because of the urban-sucking monstrosity that is the current convention center and that the two need to go together (modern center connected to its surroundings + surrounding restaurants/housing/nightlife/etc.)

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby potatocoins » 10 Feb 2022 09:50

Definitely no shortage of land in the CBD, especially on the south side. I guess I'm optimistic that things will be looking better by the time this gets completed in 2028.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby willyk » 11 Feb 2022 05:28

DCC Master Plan Alternatives

I think they picked 3C. Sorry the image is rough. It’s much better on the link.

I disagree with their chart that this alternative connects to downtown in a meaningful way. The Omni becomes the connection to downtown, and it doesn’t do so under the new plan any more than it does now, which is not much.

We’re still looking at having the conventioneers walk blocks of surface lots to get to the hotels in EMC where the room taxes are supposed to pay for this. This will be a deadly drag on the new facility, the hotels and greater downtown. This is a major flaw in the study because it undermines the financial model that says this thing will pay for itself.

As the proponents and funders of the new building, the hotels should demand that it include a new park, pedestrian mall or streetcar to connect it to EMC or the Discovery District. (How about all three?) Otherwise none the stakeholders will realize the benefits they are looking for.

https://www.dallasccmasterplan.com/alternatives
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eburress
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 11 Feb 2022 08:37

By "connects to Downtown" they must mean it doesn't interrupt connections to and from Downtown. I do like how it hides and/or undoes some of the impact of the freeways through there, and hopefully the deck park(s) happen to further mask their impact.

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Redblock
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Redblock » 24 Mar 2022 20:45

I hope that Team Convention Center (CC) and Team Texas Central (TC) at least talk to each other. I think the HSR station could be incorporated into the Multi-Modal building and gain access to DART and the Omni Hotel.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 09 Nov 2022 11:59

Dallas Proposition A was overwhelmingly passed, 67.43% For, so the funding for a new convention center is a go.

I for one am glad. Let's tear this sucker down.

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rono3849
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby rono3849 » 09 Nov 2022 12:04

I believe they had kept old Memorial Auditorium in the original proposal, but demo the rest of the Convention Center. I wonder what their time line will be? Will this increase the likelihood of NewPark's development as well? The South side of Downtown should become much more active now.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 09 Nov 2022 12:20

rono3849 wrote:I believe they had kept old Memorial Auditorium in the original proposal, but demo the rest of the Convention Center. I wonder what their time line will be? Will this increase the likelihood of NewPark's development as well? The South side of Downtown should become much more active now.

Snippet from DMN's piece on this:
Dallas voters OK hotel tax increase for convention center, Fair Park
City staff and consultants are in the midst of design and engineering work for the new 2.5-million-square-foot convention center, which has a current construction price tag of up to $2 billion. Construction is slated to begin in 2024 and be completed in 2028.

The convention center arena, The Black Academy of Arts and Letters and Omni Hotel, which are all attached to the convention center, would remain where they are.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2022/11/08/dallas-voters-appear-to-heavily-favor-hotel-tax-increase-for-convention-center-fair-park/

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 09 Nov 2022 15:29

Well, with this news, I was looking back at all the master plan documentation on the main site. This information booklet (PDF file) seemed to have an updated version of that original conceptual rendering I hadn't seen before. I assume this booklet has been up since the Spring I think, but thought I'd post these here for posterity's sake.

I don't know if it's more or less honest by removing the theoretical deck park :lol: The deck park was never promised, but neither is the wild amount of surrounding development seen here lol. If anything I'd bet a deck park happens before the area gets this dense.
New:
convention2.JPG

Old:
convention3.jpg


A couple more things from the booklet:
convention4.JPG

convention5.JPG
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potatocoins
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby potatocoins » 09 Nov 2022 15:59

I'm fine without a deck park. The convention center re-do should make crossing over to the Cedars significantly better, and that's what is really important. Obviously a park would make that connection even better, but this will be fine for now.

Is the DART station being moved over slightly to the east, or is the '4' simply indicating that there will be a plaza there?

EDIT: It seems like it's just a plaza that is being added that will be associated with the existing station.
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 09 Nov 2022 16:15

Based on everything else happening in that part of town, I suspect this is going to be a sea of parking lots for a longggggg time.

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 09 Nov 2022 16:26

potatocoins wrote:Is the DART station being moved over slightly to the east, or is the '4' simply indicating that there will be a plaza there?

It will presumably be the new location for the current convention center rail station.
convention8.JPG

Edit: Yeah youre right, seems like the same exact spot.

The big question now is how far along they've gotten on choosing the multimodal hub location, and how the nebulousness of Texas Central impacted the process.
convention7.JPG
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby dzh » 09 Nov 2022 21:26

I honestly can only think of one convention center in the United States with "good" things directly adjacent to it (Nashville). Otherwise the convention centers at best tend to be a few blocks removed from activity (Boston and San Diego). I'd still vote for this again because I think rolling the dice on this is better than doing nothing, but I am pessimistic on how much development this will actually generate around it. I hope I'm wrong though, and I hope they put in a lot of thought on masterplanning a good urban design around the new facility.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 09 Nov 2022 23:43

Vaporware incoming ...

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vman
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby vman » 10 Nov 2022 09:24

dzh wrote:I honestly can only think of one convention center in the United States with "good" things directly adjacent to it (Nashville). Otherwise the convention centers at best tend to be a few blocks removed from activity (Boston and San Diego). I'd still vote for this again because I think rolling the dice on this is better than doing nothing, but I am pessimistic on how much development this will actually generate around it. I hope I'm wrong though, and I hope they put in a lot of thought on masterplanning a good urban design around the new facility.



I think Houston has done a fair job of integrating its convention center with the surrounding area. Discovery Green is across the the street, plus several hotels, residences and office buildings many with retail/restaurants have been built in the area in the last several years. The street in front of the convention center is closed off now to thru traffic and just about every time I'm down there on the weekends, vendors set up shop on the street and the area in front of the convention center becomes a marketplace.
I remember when Discovery Green and the majority of the area around the Houston Convention Center was a humongous sea of parking lots. It's come a long way in a relatively short amount of time.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby I45Tex » 10 Nov 2022 09:55

Thanks for the updates. Since convention halls are so often windowless white boxes it makes sense to put them above or below sidewalk level, like the newish conference center under UT Austin did. I just question the wisdom of being wholly dependent on old levees along the Trinity to prevent this from becoming an underground swimming pool...

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 10 Nov 2022 10:57

dzh wrote:I honestly can only think of one convention center in the United States with "good" things directly adjacent to it (Nashville). Otherwise the convention centers at best tend to be a few blocks removed from activity (Boston and San Diego). I'd still vote for this again because I think rolling the dice on this is better than doing nothing, but I am pessimistic on how much development this will actually generate around it. I hope I'm wrong though, and I hope they put in a lot of thought on masterplanning a good urban design around the new facility.


I think Austin's is pretty well connected, being right in downtown, near Rainey St., and all that. San Diego's is separated by the massive Harbor Dr and its trolley line, but it's still just one street separating it from the Gaslamp Dist.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby MC_ScattCat » 10 Nov 2022 13:19

St. Louis has an underground light rail stop underneath their convention center. You can also get to their version central park and all 3 stadiums on it too. Must be nice....

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Dallas_Uptown » 10 Nov 2022 14:56

Apologies in advance if this has already been said, but the DCC rendering is giving me Darth Vader vibes.

It it just me?

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 10 Nov 2022 17:32

It's giving me pimple-popper vibes.

Keep in mind, it will be redesigned now that they get to decide how much funding to spend on it and real design work can be requested. Now that the voters passed the money part, they can shift money from the Convention Center to Fair Park or the other way around as needed. I hope they don't underfund Fair Park just to feed the convention center monster.

What we see in these renderings are a CONCEPT RENDERING, not the final designs at all. Don't fall in love with any part of it cause it will change.

Remember what the convention center hotel looked like before, nothing like the final project that was built.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

itsjrd1964
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby itsjrd1964 » 10 Nov 2022 19:26

So when does the 2% taxing start on hotel stays?

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Tucy
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tucy » 30 Jan 2023 08:40

And Away We Go . . . Cost Estimates Increase to $2.8 Billion for New Downtown Dallas Convention Center

Dallas estimates it’ll spend at least $3.5 billion on the development of a new downtown convention center and revamping related sites such as the attached arena and nearby cemetery by 2030.

The latest financial breakdown to replace the Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center released by the city includes a $2.8 billion estimate to build the new convention center with a park over Interstate 30, up from the previous proposed quote of $2 billion.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... her-sites/

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Addison
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Addison » 30 Jan 2023 09:50

Tucy wrote:And Away We Go . . . Cost Estimates Increase to $2.8 Billion for New Downtown Dallas Convention Center

Dallas estimates it’ll spend at least $3.5 billion on the development of a new downtown convention center and revamping related sites such as the attached arena and nearby cemetery by 2030.

The latest financial breakdown to replace the Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center released by the city includes a $2.8 billion estimate to build the new convention center with a park over Interstate 30, up from the previous proposed quote of $2 billion.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... her-sites/


Not really a surprise to anyone with rising interest rates and the cost of materials having increased significantly since the last estimates.

This is for all recent construction projects that haven't broken ground or locked in contracts.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tnexster » 30 Jan 2023 09:54

They always have the money set aside for Fair Park they can tap into. Since the Convention Center is the primary project anyway.

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Tucy
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tucy » 30 Jan 2023 10:18

Addison wrote:
Tucy wrote:And Away We Go . . . Cost Estimates Increase to $2.8 Billion for New Downtown Dallas Convention Center

Dallas estimates it’ll spend at least $3.5 billion on the development of a new downtown convention center and revamping related sites such as the attached arena and nearby cemetery by 2030.

The latest financial breakdown to replace the Kay Bailey Hutchison Convention Center released by the city includes a $2.8 billion estimate to build the new convention center with a park over Interstate 30, up from the previous proposed quote of $2 billion.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... her-sites/


Not really a surprise to anyone with rising interest rates and the cost of materials having increased significantly since the last estimates.

This is for all recent construction projects that haven't broken ground or locked in contracts.


Right... they could not have foreseen this prior to the vote... No one knew interest were going up (had already gone up). No one knew construction costs were going up (had already gone up). :lol: :lol: :lol: Maybe update the estimates prior to the vote rather than shortly after? In late October, days before the vote, the DMN told us the new convention center was $1.5 Billion. Other sources and reports had it at $2 Billion. Now we're up to $2.8 Billion or $3.5 Billion.

A more accurate summary would be "Not really a surprise to anyone who has watched the City of Dallas operate in recent years."

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Matt777 » 30 Jan 2023 19:47

That article says that just the design work will cost $92 million. Really? Does that seem right? Sounds really high for just the design work.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby mhainli » 30 Jan 2023 20:03

Matt777 wrote:That article says that just the design work will cost $92 million. Really? Does that seem right? Sounds really high for just the design work.

If the construction cost is $2.5B-$3B then $92M for design isn’t so bad. About 3%-3.7% of construction.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tnexster » 07 Feb 2023 10:31

A great day for Dallas: Downtown renewal and Fair Park’s restoration begin
A better city begins with more sensitive design.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... ion-begin/

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 07 Feb 2023 12:07

Why does this not resemble the 3C option the DCC Master Plan chose? :|

How did it go from this, which wisely puts a significant portion of the building over the highway, which is otherwise unusable space
conv2.JPG


To this, which doesn't cover the highway at all except with an embarrassingly small deck park and instead wastes the available land across the tracks.
conv1.JPG


The answer to why is obvious. Nonetheless... w h y

Are these renderings new? I hadn't seem them before so I'm just assuming so
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby MC_ScattCat » 07 Feb 2023 13:18

My guess is TXDOT had issues with the previous design. With them designing and soon...ish starting a re-do on the I-30 canyon. Also, the parking lot where the new design is going to go is less expensive to build on. I liked the previous design better, but that's just me.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby mhainli » 07 Feb 2023 15:56

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Why does this not resemble the 3C option the DCC Master Plan chose? :|

How did it go from this, which wisely puts a significant portion of the building over the highway, which is otherwise unusable space
conv2.JPG

To this, which doesn't cover the highway at all except with an embarrassingly small deck park and instead wastes the available land across the tracks.
conv1.JPG

The answer to why is obvious. Nonetheless... w h y

Are these renderings new? I hadn't seem them before so I'm just assuming so


Where did you get this rendering?

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 07 Feb 2023 16:40

The only thing I know is there absolutely will not be grass on the roof! lol

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 07 Feb 2023 20:09

If the convention center isn't decked over i-30. I don't want it. It's literally the same problem.

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dallaz
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby dallaz » 07 Feb 2023 21:08

Here it is y’all.

It was rushed during the convention center presentation though

https://dallastx.new.swagit.com/videos/207056

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eburress
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 07 Feb 2023 21:12

I think I actually prefer this placement, assuming I-30 eventually receives deck parks as part of its reconstruction. Like the previous design, this version removes the barrier to the Cedars and frees up a bunch of land, but unlike the previous plan, this utilizes that lot at the corner of Memorial and Hotel St which otherwise would have sat vacant forever.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Feb 2023 00:55

Why would anyone use that little deck park... Seems useless. NGL.

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eburress
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby eburress » 08 Feb 2023 04:36

On its own, you're probably right. I think a better way to look at it though, rather than "deck park," is "landscaped pedestrian route linking the convention center to the Cedars." hahaha

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Tucy
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tucy » 08 Feb 2023 11:01

itsjrd1964 wrote:So when does the 2% taxing start on hotel stays?


Started January 1, 2023

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dallaz
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby dallaz » 08 Feb 2023 13:45

News clip from CBS 11

Says estimated completion is 2028

https://youtu.be/cZMiwAZC9c4
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jammin
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby jammin » 08 Feb 2023 13:46

Updated Dallas convention center plans include I-30 deck park


https://www.fox4news.com/news/updated-d ... -deck-park

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potatocoins
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby potatocoins » 08 Feb 2023 14:27

The renderings look great to me!

I already feel like the highway here isn't that big of a hinderance. I haven't personally done the walk from the Cedars to Downtown across this highway, but I could definitely see how re-orienting the convention center and adding a deck park would make a huge difference here. All of a sudden, the Cedars is now super convenient to the convention center, and is actually going to be more convenient than the Discovery District and EMC corridor.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Feb 2023 14:50

This deck park is NOT what was promised (or at the very least implied). The idea was to have Community Usable space and provide integration to the Cedars through the Deck Park.

This Deck Park is nothing but a small lawn for Convention Goers.
This is neither practical or beneficial for the community.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby itsjrd1964 » 08 Feb 2023 15:16

Tucy wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:So when does the 2% taxing start on hotel stays?


Started January 1, 2023


Thanks. I didn't know at the time I asked. They've since updated our computers at work for the correct tax posting. Amazingly, I haven't had any guests (yet!) that have pissed/moaned/etc. about the new rate.

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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 08 Feb 2023 15:50

dallaz wrote:News clip from CBS 11

https://youtu.be/cZMiwAZC9c4


Omg they even imagined grass on top of Union station :lol:
unionstation4.jpg

I completely get wanting to turn union station into what other cities have done with their union stations (a retail/dining mini mall), and funneling people into it from the trains is the first step (which I assume is the skybridge's purpose), but I just don't know if that's realistically in the cards any day soon. It's what I want to see happen, but gosh... the journey towards that is so long that it's tough to see if the end goal is even possible.

It would take every lot surrounding Ferris plaza becoming completely reimagined, not just the dallas morning news HQ building. That entire square has abysmal pedestrian activation on every single side. It will take turning the entire neighborhood upside down to make it an area people actually want to be in in order for any retail in union station to be successful.

But cute that the renderings suggest anything will ever get built around Houston st/Jefferson blvd viaduct now. That area was already a small island that will be made smaller still by the convention center taking over that lower lot. It was always going to be a tough sell getting anything built there no matter what, but it's a certainty now: condemned to an eternity of overflow parking space, an embarrassment compounded by the fact that one-third of the convention center space will be trapped there. We're already planning a dead zone for our new convention center and it hasn't even broken dirt.

Don't get me wrong, literally anything, including all that we see here, is significantly better than the mess of a convention center we're sitting with at the moment. But this choice of orientation across the rail tracks seems so short-sighted, and we'll have future generations wondering why we put so much of the building in a space that no one wants to be. The benefit of the original proposed orientation is that wherever you are in that building you can quickly reach ~"the city"~, whether that be restaurants or hotels or whatever. We want to be funneling visitors towards the newly opened space that the city wants all the development in. Minimizing the trek to do so should be a goal. We don't have to be wearing people out before they even exit the door.

May I direct your attention to these highly scientific diagrams:
convention20.jpg

convention21.jpg

Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:This deck park is NOT what was promised (or at the very least implied). The idea was to have Community Usable space and provide integration to the Cedars through the Deck Park.

This Deck Park is nothing but a small lawn for Convention Goers.
This is neither practical or beneficial for the community.

Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't get built at all. Seems like something proposed solely to get cut when construction costs go up. If they had gone with the original idea of putting the building itself over the highway they would have had to commit to doing so. But now they have something that can be easily scrapped if they feel pressured to.

What I liked about the original suggested plan was that it didn't just bridge the two sides but also cut into the empty valley effect that gets created by trenched urban highways. This little lawn won't do that at all.
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Addison
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Re: Dallas Convention Center

Postby Addison » 08 Feb 2023 16:46

itsjrd1964 wrote:
Tucy wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:So when does the 2% taxing start on hotel stays?


Started January 1, 2023


Thanks. I didn't know at the time I asked. They've since updated our computers at work for the correct tax posting. Amazingly, I haven't had any guests (yet!) that have pissed/moaned/etc. about the new rate.


If the vast majority or most of your customers are on business trips, they wouldn't give a flying f*** what the tax rate is, since they're not paying for the reservation...