Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **06 Feb 2017 12:17**

I had the lots mixed up, till I saw the DBJ article. Better amount of footprint, but any new issues? Drinkies will flow from somewhere on the property, will the close proximity to the Presby church be a zoning issue, or will the city overlook it? Again, wherever DART's D2 goes might be a thing, depending on where Scion's parking/traffic flow works out. The sales/marketing folks might have some work to do to keep business coming in without guests realizing they will be a half-block away from the Stewpot, which is attracting more and more homeless/disadvantaged/street folks. They'll need good security there, or the hotel will quickly find itself the next nearest bathroom. I'm a bit surprised that that much potential Presby parking would go away without any kind of words from the congregation; I guess they feel they'll still have enough parking with their garage.

Posted: **06 Feb 2017 15:18**

ArtVandelay wrote:Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

I kind of agree with that.

Posted: **07 Feb 2017 11:37**

ArtVandelay wrote:Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

Is there anything more political than urban development? Not to mention concerning ties between Trump and Turkey, questions over location and federal funds for the high speed rail that Trump has suggested he would support, Trump's mingling of his personal financial interest and public policy, promoting and then dropping any mention of a tower in Dallas when he was trying to get people to go to his scam real estate school, etc.

This isn't Grand Rapids, Dallas doesn't need a small 4 star hotel so badly that we can't ask questions about development, motivations and financing, especially talking about a developer that has made ludicrous claims in the past and a president who is a known liar with severe conflicts of interest.

Posted: **08 Feb 2017 18:17**

Well said.

Posted: **08 Feb 2017 21:48**

Yeah, politics certainly does matter in urban development. From Robert Moses to Stalin to Trammel Crow, it matters. However, when I make a post political here I do scold myself afterwards because I enjoy this forum as an apolitical haven. As for this concept, I do like it.

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:11**

ArtVandelay wrote:Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

Quite a disrespectful response.

I care, so the 'Nobody' claim is incorrect.
I do agree, politics has no place here unless it is related to what we are discussing.
In this case, it does.

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:22**

How about if we stop talking about what President Trump has to do with this hotel. He's got his hands full and any punishable conflict of interest will take care of itself without active input from the forum, please.

It's a discussion death-trap of anger and outrage and hyperbole....

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:30**

With all do respect:

"President Donald Trump's hotel management company, "

The first phrase of the DBJ article.
On your more general point, I do agree, we are not here to inflame (or insult)

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:31**

DBadger wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

Quite a disrespectful response.

I care, so the 'Nobody' claim is incorrect.
I do agree, politics has no place here unless it is related to what we are discussing.
In this case, it does.

I'm sorry you were offended. This forum should be a safe place.

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:36**

This project will do well with the also coming AT&T Discovery District as improvements in this area make it less like the cold shoulder of the Downtown Dallas revitalization advancement. For awhile now once you past Commerce it feels like a moat between positives in the Cedars and South Side and the Main Street district. We need more holes of progress poked in the wall because this side has so much potential.

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 09:37**

DBadger wrote:With all do respect:

"President Donald Trump's hotel management company, "

The first phrase of the DBJ article.
On your more general point, I do agree, we are not here to inflame (or insult)

Ya, I know.... catch-22, gooey mess

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 10:10**

tamtagon wrote:
DBadger wrote:With all do respect:

"President Donald Trump's hotel management company, "

The first phrase of the DBJ article.
On your more general point, I do agree, we are not here to inflame (or insult)

Ya, I know.... catch-22, gooey mess

Thank you, appreciated.
And I meant 'Due respect'

not do respect.
Cheers

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 10:11**

ArtVandelay wrote:
DBadger wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

Quite a disrespectful response.

I care, so the 'Nobody' claim is incorrect.
I do agree, politics has no place here unless it is related to what we are discussing.
In this case, it does.

I'm sorry you were offended. This forum should be a safe place.

Thank you Art, I agree, and appreciate your response.

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 11:16**

DBadger wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:
DBadger wrote:
Quite a disrespectful response.

I care, so the 'Nobody' claim is incorrect.
I do agree, politics has no place here unless it is related to what we are discussing.
In this case, it does.

I'm sorry you were offended. This forum should be a safe place.

Thank you Art, I agree, and appreciate your response.

Not to poke you, Badger, but I think Art was being sarcastic.

*hides*

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 11:44**

Not to poke you, Badger, but I think Art was being sarcastic.

*hides*[/quote]

Well duke, I still appreciate his response

Posted: **09 Feb 2017 23:53**

Politics aside, this Hotel can help the area in terms getting people in that area.

As long as they interact with h the street maybe add a lounge.. I think it will go far in terms of encouraging others to step and improve the surrounding lots. BTW , I believe Turkish Mike owns some the other lots near by. I think the Cadiz lots are where he promised the the twin 70 story towers lol

Posted: **10 Feb 2017 06:29**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Politics aside, this Hotel can help the area in terms getting people in that area.

As long as they interact with h the street maybe add a lounge.. I think it will go far in terms of encouraging others to step and improve the surrounding lots. BTW , I believe Turkish Mike owns some the other lots near by. I think the Cadiz lots are where he promised the the twin 70 story towers lol

The area bounded by the Butler, Statler and Farmer's market has all of the right stuff for mid rise development. The success of the many residential projects at the Farmers Market prove that.

I have spoken to many millenials who say they would happily live in Trinity Groves or on Ross Ave to be close to town and save a few hundred a month from Uptown prices.

I hope Turkish Mike does more stuff. But this neighborhood would also be a great place to play for another strong developer looking to enter the Dallas market.

Posted: **08 Mar 2017 11:42**

A article in New York Magazine was published today about Turkish Mike and the Scion Hotel:

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... trump.html

Posted: **08 Mar 2017 13:55**

With this hotel and some of the other announcements for this part of downtown we could really see what has been a totally dead area come to life with people.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... evelopment

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... ers-market

Posted: **09 Mar 2017 10:03**

Lots of potential on the south side, lets hope they do it right. It could be a great urban neighborhood.

Posted: **12 Mar 2017 09:35**

Not such a favorable account of the developer's habits:

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... l-tax-woes

Legal, tax woes follow 'Turkish Trump' who's working to develop Trump-branded Dallas hotel
Written by Sue Ambrose Miles Moffeit

"My ultimate goal is to become a U.S. senator,'' he said.

Sarimsakci has also leveraged a federal visa program that lures foreign investors

In October 2015, the city and county sued his Alterra company for failing to pay about $50,000 in property taxes on the Alto building; they were paid off that December. He also made late payments on taxes for the Butler building.

In February, Emmitt Smith's real estate firm sued Sarimsakci's company ... $175,000 commission hasn't been paid, the suit alleges.

The developer says he has no plans to seek tax breaks from local governments for the Dallas Scion project.

Some Dallas officials aren't sure how seriously to take any of his claims, given that at least three ambitious plans he has floated for downtown failed to materialize (including a proposal to install a splash pool and other amenities on City Hall's plaza) ... As for his plans for the Scion, "This is vapor," said Philip Kingston, a City Council member ... "Mike has a history of putting out projects to test the viability with investors," Kingston said. "I think that might be what he's doing."

Posted: **12 Mar 2017 12:01**

no bueno mi amigo.

Posted: **12 Mar 2017 15:24**

We've always known from the get go not to trust the Turkish developer Sarimsakci.

Posted: **13 Mar 2017 11:53**

edit: Oops, wrong page.

Posted: **13 Mar 2017 13:16**

It's interesting what things appear to be when you don't have all the information. Dallas Morning News doesn't have whole picture. There are a few things wrong in that article as it stands.

Posted: **13 Mar 2017 14:29**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:It's interesting what things appear to be when you don't have all the information. Dallas Morning News doesn't have whole picture. There are a few things wrong in that article as it stands.

Such as?

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 09:27**

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/busi ... hone-share

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 10:27**

tanzoak wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/business/trump-organization-scion-hotel-deal.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Oh my Lord...i'm not a Trump fan, but the NYT's lame attempt to tie Trump to Turkey, Russia, Azerbaijan and Iran via Turkish Mike is ridiculous. Everybody in Dallas who knows about the guy knows he (Turkish Mike) has been doing deals in those places long before Trump came along. This is playing right into Trump's narrative about "fake news".

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 11:09**

xen0blue wrote:
tanzoak wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/business/trump-organization-scion-hotel-deal.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Oh my Lord...i'm not a Trump fan, but the NYT's lame attempt to tie Trump to Turkey, Russia, Azerbaijan and Iran via Turkish Mike is ridiculous. Everybody in Dallas who knows about the guy knows he (Turkish Mike) has been doing deals in those places long before Trump came along. This is playing right into Trump's narrative about "fake news".

I was thinking the exact same thing, lol. It's such a reach. Reminds me of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

*** I'm no Trump fan either ***

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 13:17**

I mean at least the DMN article had an obvious slant of intent. This one is a loopy loop that goes nowhere. They were obviously hoping for something juicy and didn't find anything to rest a clear story on. Which is actually the case when you really have the inside track on things.

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 14:29**

muncien wrote:
xen0blue wrote:
tanzoak wrote:https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/22/business/trump-organization-scion-hotel-deal.html?smprod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Oh my Lord...i'm not a Trump fan, but the NYT's lame attempt to tie Trump to Turkey, Russia, Azerbaijan and Iran via Turkish Mike is ridiculous. Everybody in Dallas who knows about the guy knows he (Turkish Mike) has been doing deals in those places long before Trump came along. This is playing right into Trump's narrative about "fake news".

I was thinking the exact same thing, lol. It's such a reach. Reminds me of Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.

*** I'm no Trump fan either ***

LOL I was thinking of Kevin Bacon too. It's sad to see what has become of the formerly great New York Times.

Posted: **12 Apr 2017 17:52**

Trump-brand Dallas hotel is dead
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... hotel-dead
Miles Moffeit & Sue Ambrose

The developer trying to build a Trump-brand hotel in Dallas told the city this week that the deal is dead.
Mukemmel "Mike'' Sarimsakci, who has been promoting plans to launch the Trump Organization's new Scion line of luxury hotels on a vacant lot near Dallas City Hall, told City Council members that he will work instead with another hotel company, according to council member Philip Kingston.
Kingston, who has been a critic of the Trump hotel project, said he and council member Adam Medrano heard the news Tuesday from Sarimsakci, who cited public opposition to the project.

Posted: **12 Apr 2017 19:26**

Where did I put my surprise face?

Posted: **13 Apr 2017 08:38**

The resident pessimist is back

Posted: **13 Apr 2017 14:00**

In all fairness the pessimistic inclination by many on the forum is/was fully justified. Quite simply, Turkish Mike is involved and more often than not he has an ambitious vision that fails to materialize. I actually thought this particular project was more feasible given how tamed it was in comparison of the other ideas Mike has conveyed.
Not to mention, Mike has shown the ability to develop a hotel.

Hopefully something comes to this part of town.

Posted: **13 Apr 2017 14:14**

I'm going with the simple answer, he knew that making a Trump announcement would get him lots of publicity and it did.

Posted: **13 Apr 2017 14:58**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I
Not to mention, Mike has shown the ability to develop a hotel.

Has he?

Posted: **13 Apr 2017 17:21**

Tucy wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I
Not to mention, Mike has shown the ability to develop a hotel.

Has he?

Well technically you're correct. He still has not delivered on the Butler Bros Marriott. But it looks like he is well on his way to delivering.

Posted: **14 Apr 2017 08:42**

The Dallas Morning News article was riddled with inaccuracies and the announcement of the hotel deal being dead had nothing to do with the Dallas Morning News but they sure do love to take credit for doing nothing. The Butler Marriot hotel is pushing full steam ahead all the retail space has been leased and the Alto211 building is getting some more improvements as we speak.

Posted: **14 Apr 2017 10:20**

Developer could switch out Trump Hotels brand for another option in Dallas

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... d-for.html

Sarimsakci, managing partner of Alterra International, had a letter-of-intent with the Trump Hotels organization, but allegedly told Kingston he could swap out the flag for the project if it meant the city councilman wouldn't oppose him applying for or receiving tax increment financing fund.

Posted: **14 Apr 2017 12:20**

Bringing in any of the controversial Trump Inc. brands to an up-and-coming part of any town might not work until the Trump Inc brands are no longer controversial, 'nuf said.... there's not a whole lotta doubt that the Farmers Market - Government/Municipal District - Convention Center side of town is ripe for more business traveler hotel rooms and even some regional tourist travelers. Alterra seems to be Marriot connected, so identify a budding brand for the budding part of town.

Posted: **14 Apr 2017 14:35**

I'm sure there are lots of options Mike can tap into if he intends to pursue the development. Will have to wait and see what happens next. As for the Scion brand, if Dallas does not want it, Plano or Frisco might jump on it.

Posted: **16 Apr 2017 07:35**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:The Dallas Morning News article was riddled with inaccuracies and the announcement of the hotel deal being dead had nothing to do with the Dallas Morning News but they sure do love to take credit for doing nothing. The Butler Marriot hotel is pushing full steam ahead all the retail space has been leased and the Alto211 building is getting some more improvements as we speak.

Any word on opening dates for the retail tenants? Is it still Motopia, Mademoiselle Collete's, and Eddies Diner?

Posted: **17 Apr 2017 08:34**

Since I don't work on the Butler Project specifically I have only knowledge of the Motopia and Dev Mountain tenants. Motopia is moving ahead. Their space is framed and drywalled but they are now in the process of interior finishes and they just installed the exterior doors facing Young street.

Dev Mountain takes a considerable chunk of the basement/retail and had its ribbon cutting last week with politicians around to do the honors you can check the twitter feeds for that one. Their space reaches from Ervay to the patio side because they are a coding school that dorms students in the apartments above. As for what's left of the retail space, I am uninformed of the details. There are definitely construction guys in there but I have no idea what they are building out on what schedule.

Posted: **06 Jun 2017 13:49**

It appears that a Dallas hotel under the Trump family's new Scion brand is back on track. After some bumps with finding a partnering entity, the CEO of the Trump Organization's hotel business has put Dallas back in its plans, telling the New York Times that a hotel here will be announced "in the next couple of months."

However, Eric Danziger, CEO of the Trump Organization's hotel business, told the New York Times that Dallas is still in their game plan. Dallas will not be the first to open, as originally planned. But they've found a new partner in Chawla Hotels, who will open three properties in Mississippi.

Danziger said that Dallas will be one of four more Scion hotels to be announced in the next couple of months.

http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/trave ... ion-hotel/

Looks like this still might happen. I'm still skeptical on this one, but looking forward to some more development in the CBD.

Posted: **07 Jun 2017 08:36**

No one said it would be Downtown so be careful with assumptions.

The Times report didn’t identify where the proposed Dallas hotel will be built or who the Trumps' partner is for the Dallas project. The Trump Organization has said it wants to develop Scion hotels in city and resort locations "that have a true sense of place and personality."

I am not saying I don't think Downtown is a great location with personality but it is far from a "resort" location. Maybe the new Trinity Golf Course instead...

We have to hope they see locations like Trinity Groves or the Design District as potential ideas. I doubt Deep Ellum and Victory Park. Obviously Virgin is going vertical with their Design District hotel tower but I wouldn't put it past the Scion brand to like the potential of the Design District too. Turtle Creek and Oak Lawn areas most likely no but they could always want Uptown-adjacent like many developers but they will pay a lot for property near Uptown. Cedars seems saturated with enough hotels at the moment. East Dallas no, Henderson not really the right fit I would think. Hardwood District or Arts District? If Bishops Arts were identified omg the drama that would ensue. All my rambling just reminds me I have no idea how to serve up what they may be looking for.

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