Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 18:41**

A new Trump Hotel Concept, Scion is coming to DT Dallas...

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... plant.html

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 18:45**

Looks like downtown is getting a new Motel 6.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 19:33**

^^ What are you talking about?? It looks great, is surrounded by retail, and is in a part of Downtown sorely needing development.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 20:01**

I'm ok with the bottom two levels, but the actual hotel-room part looks like they took a Days Inn and stuck it next to a great entrance ... my opinion ... not worth much, but there it is.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 20:29**

Wow. This is so...Underwhelming.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 20:50**

I don't believe this is the final design since the article states that 5G studios will be designing the project and this rendering is definitely not 5G quality.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 20:51**

It looks mid century and not sure I'm a fan of the design. It's very underwhelming.

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 21:21**

Sad.....

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 21:29**

Make Downtown Dallas Great Again

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 23:07**

Ironically, this is the piece of property that was formerly planned to have permanent supportive housing for 150 residents (a development by Larry Hamilton). It was rejected by the neighborhood.

Here's an article I wrote about that in 2011: http://www.unvisiteddallas.com/archives/688

Posted: **01 Feb 2017 23:45**

Man, this is a tough crowd. You guys must all be so accustomed to all the other new construction in this area.

This really seems like a case of beggars being choosers...

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 00:30**

Research Mike Sarimsakci, he is full of shit, I wouldn't believe the Trump hotel or any of the other publicity seeking announcements he has made in the past were actually happening if they were assembling the tower crane.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 02:05**

The Trump hotel and the Courtyard by Marriott seem to be following a model of putting a business class hotel in a lower cost location. I do not think they could put this kind of hotel on Ross Ave. That's where I want to see new hotels-- but the land cost there is too high for this class of hotel.

In this part of town, right now more is better. The nice stuff will come later if the cycle can last that long.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 05:45**

Are these related?

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 05:46**

JohnMcKee wrote:Research Mike Sarimsakci, he is full of shit, I wouldn't believe the Trump hotel or any of the other publicity seeking announcements he has made in the past were actually happening if they were assembling the tower crane.

He was an active member on the old forum. He revitalized two buildings that would be still empty today.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 06:30**

ContriveDallasite wrote:
JohnMcKee wrote:Research Mike Sarimsakci, he is full of shit, I wouldn't believe the Trump hotel or any of the other publicity seeking announcements he has made in the past were actually happening if they were assembling the tower crane.

He was an active member on the old forum. He revitalized two buildings that would be still empty today.

The Alto Partners website says that Butler Brothers will have a 238 room extended stay Marriott, so this project certainly seems to be within his reach.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 07:19**

JohnMcKee wrote:Research Mike Sarimsakci, he is full of shit, I wouldn't believe the Trump hotel or any of the other publicity seeking announcements he has made in the past were actually happening if they were assembling the tower crane.

I don't see why have overly negative criticism for a developer who is actually trying to good for downtown Dallas especially in an area that has been overlooked by most. Plus so far his developments seem to be seeing success, yes once in a while he throws out overly ambitious plans but he also has very solid proposals as well which this most certainly seems to be.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:04**

Wow... I must be out of it, because I think this looks pretty darn good. And the way it interacts with the street seems well done. Plus, I don't think we have EVER seen any proposal for these parking lots previously. Bringing development further in that direction would be a HUGE boost. Love it.

Plus... Unlike 70 story towers, this one actually seems in the realm of reality.

CORRECTION: Just ready dfwCreative post... I guess there was a proposal for this plot. But, I'm certainly glad to see this development instead of that one. I'm not saying we don't need transitional or affordable housing. I'm just not a fan of clumping it into the CBD. I don't think the feds are either from what we've been hearing...

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:06**

Same developer, different parcel of land. The one pictured here right next to the Butler Bldg I think was supposed to be all residential... maybe retail on the ground floor. Considering the ATT plan to make a plaza out of the part of the streets where their office buildings are and bring more jobs to that HQ, this hotel would be very well positioned to get some of that business. This move by ATT would finally cement downtown as the long term HQ location so maybe now we'll see a bit of the 'Toyota effect' in which business partners/vendors/agencies open offices near the ATT urban campus -- making Scion a better venture.

ContriveDallasite wrote:Are these related?

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:12**

JohnMcKee wrote:Research Mike Sarimsakci, he is full of shit, I wouldn't believe the Trump hotel or any of the other publicity seeking announcements he has made in the past were actually happening if they were assembling the tower crane.

EXACTLY! hahaha This is all probably moot until they break ground.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:13**

muncien wrote:Wow... I must be out of it, because I think this looks pretty darn good. And the way it interacts with the street seems well done. Plus, I don't think we have EVER seen any proposal for these parking lots previously. Bringing development further in that direction would be a HUGE boost. Love it.

Plus... Unlike 70 story towers, this one actually seems in the realm of reality.

CORRECTION: Just ready dfwCreative post... I guess there was a proposal for this plot. But, I'm certainly glad to see this development instead of that one. I'm not saying we don't need transitional or affordable housing. I'm just not a fan of clumping it into the CBD. I don't think the feds are either from what we've been hearing...

I completely agree. I'm not seeing why people are so unhappy about this proposal.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:20**

Details are interesting things when you know them. Without them, you are working off of #AlternativeFacts and mostly disoriented.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:29**

Hahaha you guys/gals make me laugh.. lol

OK Turkish Mike has been overly ambitious in the past, the twin 70 story towers, the high rise Trump Hotel pictured above...

BUT... In his defense those projects were dependent on outside factors...Fall in Oil prices impacted his planned financing for the twin towers. The 5 star high rise Trump Hotel is apparently not the way the Trump Hotel group wants to expand..Not really his fault...I'm skeptical as most but give him credit he does go out there try to make things happen..

As for this project, it seem doable. He's proven that he can take a neglected lot and turn a Turd into Bronze.

I'm okay with this,we need need growth in/near "SoYo" (I really hate that name still lol)..Im just not a fan of the archetural style..Maybe it changes.. I suppose we've been spoiled over the last couple of years.

But overall new life in this area is welcomed by me.

Oh...And he wants Dallas to be like London...I wish brother. I wish. Lol

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:32**

Perhaps if we replaced the name 'Trump' with 'Harwood' and 'Mike' with 'Romano'... Then replaced the shops/pool with a parking lot, removed all street interaction, swapped out half of the glass for cheap cladding and put 'Meadows Building' on top... People would be ecstatic!

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:49**

Looks very 60's to me so I love it. Also just the fact that it's on the southern side of downtown and an obvious sign of confidence in downtown, some retail space to boot. Hope it works out.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:49**

muncien wrote:Perhaps if we replaced the name 'Trump' with 'Harwood' and 'Mike' with 'Romano'... Then replaced the shops/pool with a parking lot, removed all street interaction, swapped out half of the glass for cheap cladding and put 'Meadows Building' on top... People would be ecstatic!

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Posted: **02 Feb 2017 09:54**

I'm a fan of mid-century modern and like that it interacts with the street. The fact that Hamilton confirms the deal is taking place convinces me that it's moving forward. I like this development, politics aside.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 10:54**

I'm happy with this news. Yes, this development doesn't compare to what we've been seeing in Victory Park and Uptown, but this area isn't even close to being on the same level as those two neighborhoods. Plus, it's not like there is a shortage of empty land that we need to be sure to use wisely. There are a ton of surface parking lots, so, for now, I'm just happy to see them replaced with something that isn't horribly suburban (which this isn't at all). In 5-10 years, when Downtown is more lively and there are (hopefully) less empty lots available, I'll start holding developers to higher standards, but this particular project will breathe a small bit of space in a dead part of Downtown and will hopefully encourage more development.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 11:36**

muncien wrote:Perhaps if we replaced the name 'Trump' with 'Harwood' and 'Mike' with 'Romano'... Then replaced the shops/pool with a parking lot, removed all street interaction, swapped out half of the glass for cheap cladding and put 'Meadows Building' on top... People would be ecstatic!

Seriously.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 12:35**

Tnexster wrote:Looks very 60's to me so I love it. Also just the fact that it's on the southern side of downtown and an obvious sign of confidence in downtown, some retail space to boot. Hope it works out.

I like it to and am surprised by all the hate. I think it looks great.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 12:41**

Get a nice lounge going in there and it will be the "it" spot.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 12:44**

I think the scale is right for this location. A 3-4 story building on the Butler property site would also be appropriate. Fill in the the small parcels with shorter buildings that have storefronts activating the streets, and save the large (current) parking lots for bigger mixed-use developments. I'm just glad this will not be another 10-story parking garage block.

Has there been any news about the transformation of the old Oncor building at Park/Marilla (Phase II of Encore Park)?

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 12:58**

DMN version of this story....

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... own-dallas

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 13:46**

DPatel304 wrote:I'm happy with this news. Yes, this development doesn't compare to what we've been seeing in Victory Park and Uptown, but this area isn't even close to being on the same level as those two neighborhoods. Plus, it's not like there is a shortage of empty land that we need to be sure to use wisely. There are a ton of surface parking lots, so, for now, I'm just happy to see them replaced with something that isn't horribly suburban (which this isn't at all). In 5-10 years, when Downtown is more lively and there are (hopefully) less empty lots available, I'll start holding developers to higher standards, but this particular project will breathe a small bit of space in a dead part of Downtown and will hopefully encourage more development.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 15:44**

I think it's great that it's next to Butler Brothers and it's taking over a surface lot. I'm a little over brand-new mid-century, but if the materials used are of good quality, then it will be fine. I wonder though if this area can support the ground-floor retail.

Posted: **02 Feb 2017 20:36**

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... urkey.html

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/12/23/dona ... 31140.html

Trump has major and well known conflicts of interest in Turkey, the developer has a history of making ludicrously overambitious proposals in Dallas. Trump himself floated and then quickly abandoned the idea of a Trump hotel and Condo in Dallas when he was promoting his scam real estate school.

It seems to me that a lot more skepticism is warranted in these circumstances besides excitement over a couple or renders.

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 09:57**

It's go, trust me they have started redeveloping two other properties one historic another from the ground up. Alterra International is not only developing in Downtown Dallas.

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 12:08**

He's made good on two projects downtown, not sure why this one would somehow not be believed.

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 12:42**

Tnexster wrote:He's made good on two projects downtown, not sure why this one would somehow not be believed.

two out of how many? and even though two on which he has "made good" have not turned out quite like he initially announced.

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 13:05**

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:He's made good on two projects downtown, not sure why this one would somehow not be believed.

two out of how many? and even though two on which he has "made good" have not turned out quite like he initially announced.

Well, technically his first hotel proposal was much taller and this one is only 5 stories so this would be consistent with delivering something less than originally envisioned.

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 15:40**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:It looks mid century and not sure I'm a fan of the design. It's very underwhelming.

Make MCM great again!

Posted: **03 Feb 2017 22:31**

John McKee is IMHO correct on this. I remember well Trump's 40-50 story hotel condo project proposal 'announced' a week prior to his keynote address at the real estate conference. Nothing ever followed. Likewise in Tampa Bay (my other home) he announced a 52 story hotel condo there in downtown Tampa that also was followed by crickets--now for over three years. I guess all anybody can really say in conclusion whether you like the rendering or not, is that old truism, time will tell.

Posted: **04 Feb 2017 17:49**

Not only that, Trump's business relationship with Turkey as I pointed out are extremely concerning, we should not be celebrating a development even if it happens that raises grave concerns about Trump's entanglements with personal enrichment with US policy.

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 01:29**

I like the way this fills the gap between Butler Brothers and the Statler.

And let's face it, this is an ignored part of Downtown but for Turkish Mike. I wish we had 10 more developers like him turning the stagnant Downtown surface lots into hotel, residential and retail.

I hope his two projects prove that Downtown deserves some of the love that DD and DE are getting, and give other entrepreneurial developers the validation they need to start more infill projects Downton.

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 04:12**

Yeah, f the constitution as long as we turn a parking lot into a hotel.

There is a lot to process here between general conflicts of interest in general not to mention specific ones dealing with Turkey, but ask yourself, why would this mediocre hotel proposal claiming to be targeting mid-range business travelers in honestly not the most desirable location be flagged by a management company with no meaningful points program?

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 08:40**

It's an odd, skinny lot/block; I'm a bit surprised that Mike didn't ask for the street between St. Paul and Butler Bros. to be vacated by the city and add the skinny lot to the Butler project. Whatever is done there, Trump/not, hotel/not, would have to be quite creative with their footprint since there would be a multi-story building and parking there. This project would also have some possible interaction with DART's D2 line, depending on the alignment and nearest (subway?) station.

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 10:21**

JohnMcKee wrote:Yeah, f the constitution as long as we turn a parking lot into a hotel.

There is a lot to process here between general conflicts of interest in general not to mention specific ones dealing with Turkey, but ask yourself, why would this mediocre hotel proposal claiming to be targeting mid-range business travelers in honestly not the most desirable location be flagged by a management company with no meaningful points program?

I'm confident the parties involved in the political conflict of interest will be legally pursued relentlessly eventually to pay the consequences; personally I'm more conflicted-disgusted by the death money from the philanthropic arm of Sammons Enterprises, Sammons Dallas Foundation; Sammons is the company greasing the political chrony wheel in Austin to bury more and more nuclear waste in West Texas then giving away $10s, $100s of millions to area hospitals, schools, charities etc.

Farmer's Market - Convention Center maybe not be the most desirable location today, but neither was Oak Lawn when The Crescent was built, initiating the part of town we now call Uptown. Alterra International is sitting on a gold mine of real estate.

Even without the 90 minute portal to Houston, this side of town will not sit idle. Cadiz will gain a completely different function, just like Ross. The constraints of I-30 will be rebuilt out of the street grid, and this whole side of town opens up -- as much because of the damage to the city from suburban highway dominance, and almost as much because Uptown has become such a nice area and it's filling up. "Downtown Dallas" is not going to stop growing unless there's a national recession (possible, yes because of politics) and South-SouthEast downtown is just too good a location to stay locked in the 1980s.

...and the train-to-Houston station will be a destination in and of itself. The placement of this Scion Hotel is outstanding. If ownership and branding change because of whatever, then that's fine, but this level of business traveler hotel in this location will do very well.

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 10:26**

^...also, It's right next to the Presbyterian Church (Trump's a Presby) and The Museum of Street Culture ....so what an exotic set-up!

Posted: **05 Feb 2017 11:38**

tamtagon wrote:^...also, It's right next to the Presbyterian Church (Trump's a Presby) and The Museum of Street Culture ....so what an exotic set-up!

Trump's a non practicing Presby, but even if he wasn't I'm sure his Hotel Group would expand regardless if they were next to that church or not.

Posted: **06 Feb 2017 00:45**

Nobody cares what you think about Trump. Let's stick to urban development. Save the political drivel for Facebook and Twitter.

Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Downtown Dallas: Scion Hotel

Downtown Dallas: Scion Hotel

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