Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Does it look like they are not building up?

maconahey wrote:I'm guessing they're going to put up stick construction on top of this?

Yep, per the rendering this appears to be a "5-over-2" (5 stories of wood over 2 stories of concrete podium), currently the most cost-effective way to construct a 7-story multi-family residential building, especially if you want to incorporate ground floor retail.

https://www.nishkian.com/cost-effective ... struction/
https://www.awc.org/pdf/education/des/R ... 140210.pdf
https://www.thinkwood.com/news/how-a-po ... ry-project

Went by this site last night, and it still looks about the same as the photos from late April. Anyone have info on this?

I've seen very little action from the site since the concrete got done. No preparations, no milling about, no coffee/donuts. I see more from the loiterers by the 7-Eleven. Hopefully this isn't another fake-out like 2000 Ross.

Labor shortage maybe.

Does anyone know whether the developer can fake us out and just put up a parking deck with no apartments/condos? They had to get approval from the landmark commission b/c it’s in a historic district. It looks like they are ready to open up the parking garage.

In addition: https://twitter.com/mattvermillion/stat ... 9265104896

Wondering if we need to go back and read something that might've given a clue there would be a phase where the garage would open and the 5/2 would begin (at a later date, perhaps not too much later) over it while garage is in operation. No idea here, but, the pause is certainly noticeable.

Well, they did say the parking was of immediate need for the DMN HQ and the Hotel. I am sure they want the units to come online around the time the park is going up and Harwood Park is still in the process. I doubt leasing of those units will go very well until there is a park going forward.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, they did say the parking was of immediate need for the DMN HQ and the Hotel. I am sure they want the units to come online around the time the park is going up and Harwood Park is still in the process. I doubt leasing of those units will go very well until there is a park going forward.

Reasonable explanation, lets hope that's the case.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, they did say the parking was of immediate need for the DMN HQ and the Hotel. I am sure they want the units to come online around the time the park is going up and Harwood Park is still in the process. I doubt leasing of those units will go very well until there is a park going forward.

This makes a lot of sense if you believe Centurion plans on keeping the Statler and library as a long-term investment (and I hope they do). What's more likely to happen is that one or both pieces will be sold in the next couple of years, and then whether or not to build the apartments is up to the next owner.

It's why the developer should've built the apartment shell first and finish them out at a later time, like what was done with the Parkside condos facing Klyde Warren.

willyk wrote:Labor shortage maybe.

Or possibly a sign of a slowdown in the market, which seems most likely.

lakewoodhobo wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, they did say the parking was of immediate need for the DMN HQ and the Hotel. I am sure they want the units to come online around the time the park is going up and Harwood Park is still in the process. I doubt leasing of those units will go very well until there is a park going forward.

This makes a lot of sense if you believe Centurion plans on keeping the Statler and library as a long-term investment (and I hope they do). What's more likely to happen is that one or both pieces will be sold in the next couple of years, and then whether or not to build the apartments is up to the next owner.

It's why the developer should've built the apartment shell first and finish them out at a later time, like what was done with the Parkside condos facing Klyde Warren.

In the case of selling its kinda a blessing, they didn't build the shell because the next owner could build a better building on top. The final design left a lot to be desired but then again comparing it to the Statler, Library and the Municipal building means anything is gonna be almost like bland toast because each of those buildings is from such significant architectural eras. Mind you I too hate to stare at a bare-bones garage as much as anyone on here.

^^ This looks considerably worse than the renderings...

DMN is using the garage portion they were allocated correct?

eburress wrote:^^ This looks considerably worse than the renderings...

I drove by it recently and it really does look horrible. Hope they finish it.

I just wish they would re-open Jackson westbound. Sad it's been closed this long for this hideous addition.

Considering the Uber announcement its not like the apartments here wouldn't be in demand. I wish the delay was because they were going build something better on top but we know that's not the case. Also, the developer just bought the old airline dormitory building on Wycliff and DNT. They keep buying new projects to start but need to finish this one...ugh. There is a construction workers shortage in Dallas but that would just be a smokescreen too. I mean it's not even that many units they could have the exterior done quickly and build out the inside once the Harwood park starts if they wanted to.

Looking over the development map in another thread reminded me of the Centurion American residential development that was discussed and updated fairly regularly earlier in this thread, but it's been nothing but crickets since September. Is this project dead? Did they even open the parking garage (that was supposedly much needed by the DMN, etc)?

Tucy wrote:Looking over the development map in another thread reminded me of the Centurion American residential development that was discussed and updated fairly regularly earlier in this thread, but it's been nothing but crickets since September. Is this project dead? Did they even open the parking garage (that was supposedly much needed by the DMN, etc)?

The Morning News does use the parking garage, but the construction project for the residences above it are dead for now. Word has it that the developer ran out of money. As of now, don't hold your breath.

This should get revived once the park is built, I assume.

rono3849 wrote:

Tucy wrote:Looking over the development map in another thread reminded me of the Centurion American residential development that was discussed and updated fairly regularly earlier in this thread, but it's been nothing but crickets since September. Is this project dead? Did they even open the parking garage (that was supposedly much needed by the DMN, etc)?

The Morning News does use the parking garage, but the construction project for the residences above it are dead for now. Word has it that the developer ran out of money. As of now, don't hold your breath.

The developer still seems to be actively developing other projects, at least as recently as early this year. So I guess they just "ran out of money" that they are willing to commit to this downtown Dallas project. Or was this just a bait and switch all along??

Trust me, I'm not holding my breath on this one.
Holding one's breath on downtown Dallas developments is not a good survival strategy.

^that should our next list - parking garages as the final product but were touted/promised/exempted with 'structure' above!

They're all over downtown.

tamtagon wrote:^that should our next list - parking garages as the final product but were touted/promised/exempted with 'structure' above!

They're all over downtown.

That would be interesting. I didn't realize. . .

The question is did the developer get promised any incentives for the garage/residential? If so then it must be bad for them to leave that on the table. I don't think this project did get incentives just was really about getting the parking they promised for the Dallas Morning News. I think the residential was always a how do we hide the parking garage and not come out in the negative. With their history with the Statler they would probably just turn the residential units into short term home rentals like they did with many of the units there.

I wonder if the restaurant problem has sucked up too much time and capital. They invested in reopening Primo's rebuilt the Uptown location and are opening a Downtown location because lets face it Tex/Mex or Mexican food is a solid plan in North Texas and their other options have been hit or miss at the Statler. Floating more than a few restaurants is a very capital heavy expense. Not even including the COVID complications.

The thing to keep in mind Centurion has a multiple projects in the wings but I assume they are all setup under separate entities so they reduce the opportunity to bankrupt everything together if one never gets off the ground like the South Dallas project or the Collin Creek Mall redo or the Cabana Hotel project. I wonder if the Statler is completely separate from the residential portion they proposed or is it dependent on the hotel project generating enough profit to float a construction loan.

Tucy wrote:The developer still seems to be actively developing other projects, at least as recently as early this year. So I guess they just "ran out of money" that they are willing to commit to this downtown Dallas project. Or was this just a bait and switch all along??

The vast majority of development projects are separate legal entities, with separate investors, lenders, etc... You wouldn't want to invest in a project if some other project's failure would takes yours down with it. Commingling funds between projects is a good way for a developer to get sued by everybody, with a decent chance of ending up in jail.

^what this man said.

I heard from a pretty reliable source that they built over the approved setback for that district and the whole project is in limbo while they figure out what to do.

Still looks the same, unfortunately, so I suppose it's safe to assume this project is still in limbo?

DPatel304 wrote:

Still looks the same, unfortunately, so I suppose it's safe to assume this project is still in limbo?

From the looks of it, I'd say it is a non-starter. Let's see how the East Quarter development does once it's finished. That area of Downtown can be a tough spot in the evening hours. Folks who work at the DMN have to be escorted to their cars at night.

Well Here's the answer to that:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... t-project/

Now Centurion American is seeking approval from the Dallas Landmark Commission to increase the size of the apartment building that would be constructed on top of the garage.

The new plan is for nine stories of rental units on top of the parking.

“The primary purpose of the proposed modifications is to increase residential space,” according to the Landmark Commission agenda. “The second floor, originally designed to be an open-air garage, will be enclosed to become residential space.

“Two floors will be added to the upper story to increase the building height from seven to nine floors,” the filing said. “In addition, the parking on the first floor level will be slightly decreased to add more office/retail space.”

^That seems like good news all around, right? IIRC, this development was started before all the momentum with the East Quarter/etc started rolling out. So maybe they decided to try to get a little more juice out of this site with what they had already started building?

That's sounds like a good trade to me. The question is did they build enough parking to add that many units and still park the DMN offices as part of their lease? I mean I wouldn't think they would mindless add that many extra units without planning for this but def not cheap to build extra parking on a whim you might build a bigger building.

I have faith in this development. With Harwood Park coming soon, that will really change that space.

That's a positive update, so I'm glad to hear that it still seems to be on track and that we could potentially end up with something even better.

I like it and really hope it happens! As others have mentioned there needs to be more cops and feet on the street in this area because it does get rough.

Interesting change, seems very positive! More residential and retail seems like a nice addition in this part of downtown. Maybe East Quarter helped spur the change?

Tnexster wrote:Interesting change, seems very positive! More residential and retail seems like a nice addition in this part of downtown. Maybe East Quarter helped spur the change?

I agree that the East Quarter's expansion impacted this development, plus they are adding another park to the area, which will complement the adjacent Main Street Garden park on Commerce Street. It's nice to see some positive momentum in this area of Downtown.

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

^ WE HAVE REBAR!

You know that ugly unfinished underground parking garage across from the Statler and the Dallas Morning News office?
Half of the block this structure sits on is in the Harwood Historic District, and the City of Dallas Landmark Commission recently approved an amendment to previously-approved construction plans of a multi-family structure at that location.
The purpose of the change that was approved is to increase residential space. The second floor, originally designed to be an open-air parking garage, will be enclosed to become residential space. Two additional floors will also be added to the upper story to increase the building from seven to nine floors. The parking on the first floor level will be slightly decreased to add more office/retail space. All good news in my opinion as this property will be adjacent to the new Harwood Park.
If you want more info or to see detailed renderings of the construction plans, here is a link to the PDF case file that was considered (it starts on page 27 - don't click it on your phone, it's around 100 MB).

https://dallascityhall.com/departments/ ... 2-7-20.pdf

Credit goes to Sean Buckley of the Downtown Residents Council (Dallas) Facebook group.

It's incredible that we are already seeing the benefits of a park that hasn't even been built yet, great news!

Thanks for sharing, DPatel304.
Here are the renderings within the file:






And for comparison to the old rendering:

lakewoodhobo wrote:I believe the final approved design is the one that took a slightly more mid-century look:



All parking will be underground BTW.

Good little infill project.

Very nice, thanks for posting!

This is great, glad this is finally moving.

exelone31 wrote:^ WE HAVE REBAR!

Haha this definitely made me laugh. Can't deny that it's not progress though

Someone should do a JV with Scottish Rite to develop their parking lot and fill in the other side of the park.

Was already happy about this, but wow, even better. This sorta stuff is so crucial for truly stitching together the urban fabric of the city (or in this case, I guess creating one ), but can't wait to see this finished.

undefinedprocess wrote:Was already happy about this, but wow, even better. This sorta stuff is so crucial for truly stitching together the urban fabric of the city (or in this case, I guess creating one ), but can't wait to see this finished.

True and with the park done as well. This plus the park plus the new Pearl tower really help this part of downtown.

Tnexster wrote:

undefinedprocess wrote:Was already happy about this, but wow, even better. This sorta stuff is so crucial for truly stitching together the urban fabric of the city (or in this case, I guess creating one ), but can't wait to see this finished.

True and with the park done as well. This plus the park plus the new Pearl tower really help this part of downtown.

New Pearl tower? Maybe am stupid, please refresh my memory...