Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I have to say... Having visited Main Street Garden Park for the first time in a while, it seems to have become quite a hit. The entire EMC corridor was absolutely bustling with activity last night, which was quite surprising when you consider that there was hardly anything open. Even after 11PM, there were still countless people in the park, with kids running around, etc.
Perhaps these are locals who are bringing their visiting family to DTD, or maybe it's due to all the new hotels full of visitors, but it was quite impressive. The transformation that this are has seen over the last ten years is just mind blowing. I know we study it every day and it can seem to take for ever, but sometimes we need to take a step back to really see the transition over time.
The Statler is just a small part of this observation, but it is a beautiful building and it makes a HUGE difference to have it alive and kicking again.

^ My parents stayed at The Statler Christmas Eve and Christmas nights. They commented on the same thing about the level of activity in the park. They saw a steady flow of people taking pictures with the tree, wreath, etc.

The building belongs in everyone’s tour of Dallas. Are there other examples of mid-century modern that are as good as the Statler? Is this the best mcm in the country?

willyk wrote:The building belongs in everyone’s tour of Dallas. Are there other examples of mid-century modern that are as good as the Statler? Is this the best mcm in the country?

How would one quantify "as good as?" For what it's worth, the entire city of Palm Springs has maintained its midcentury modern style, even with new construction. So whether or not it's "as good as" the Statler, there's certainly a lot more midcentury modern in PS.

Yeah cause I know a number of people that still wish the building was torn down cause they don't get mid-century architecture.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yeah cause I know a number of people that still wish the building was torn down cause they don't get mid-century architecture.

You're right. I've heard people refer to the building as "ugly" for years, while I've always found it to be beautiful and a wonderful piece of architecture.

vman wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yeah cause I know a number of people that still wish the building was torn down cause they don't get mid-century architecture.

You're right. I've heard people refer to the building as "ugly" for years, while I've always found it to be beautiful and a wonderful piece of architecture.

To be fair, Dallas let's its "Historical" buildings fall into disrepair or close to it far too often.

How can you except the general public, who tend NOT to be architecture nerds, to value something that looks like junk and has been in that state for decades (sometimes their entire lifetime)?

It's astonishing how this building, Dallas High School and countless other old buildings are left to rot.

Then when someone proposes something new the preservation society screams "Travesty!".

I don't think it's the general public or even the developer who proposes something new, that have disdain for the old. The city and property owners play a big part of what the public values.

If old buildings are treated well the community comes to value them over time. Look at how the community rallied around the Lakewood theatre.

Dallas' problem is that they cry about preserving old buildings without actually implementing preservation practices in a swift nature.

It's the biggest irony!

eburress wrote:

willyk wrote:The building belongs in everyone’s tour of Dallas. Are there other examples of mid-century modern that are as good as the Statler? Is this the best mcm in the country?

How would one quantify "as good as?" For what it's worth, the entire city of Palm Springs has maintained its midcentury modern style, even with new construction. So whether or not it's "as good as" the Statler, there's certainly a lot more midcentury modern in PS.

I am not familiar with Palm Springs. The internet shows some terrific MCM homes, but no commercial buildings of the size and stature of the Statler. If this is one the best examples of MCM still standing in the country, that would be something worth bragging about.

The U.N. Headquarters might fit—but I have heard people say it is in the international style. So I am thinking we claim bragging rights on this one.

willyk wrote:

eburress wrote:

willyk wrote:The building belongs in everyone’s tour of Dallas. Are there other examples of mid-century modern that are as good as the Statler? Is this the best mcm in the country?

How would one quantify "as good as?" For what it's worth, the entire city of Palm Springs has maintained its midcentury modern style, even with new construction. So whether or not it's "as good as" the Statler, there's certainly a lot more midcentury modern in PS.

I am not familiar with Palm Springs. The internet shows some terrific MCM homes, but no commercial buildings of the size and stature of the Statler. If this is one the best examples of MCM still standing in the country, that would be something worth bragging about.

The U.N. Headquarters might fit—but I have heard people say it is in the international style. So I am thinking we claim bragging rights on this one.

It sounds like by "as good as," you meant "as large as," and for all I know, you could be right.

Yeah, doing a Google Images search on "Palm Springs Architecture" will show some of the breadth of its midcentury structures, but sure, there's not a building in all of the Coachella Valley that's as big as the Statler.

The only building that the Statler reminds me of in shape and size is the Hotel Uzbekistan in Tashkent, although the Statler is still bigger, I think. Mid-Century, soviet style.

willyk wrote:The building belongs in everyone’s tour of Dallas. Are there other examples of mid-century modern that are as good as the Statler? Is this the best mcm in the country?

These are nice:









In Dallas, I would rank best Mid-Century Modern (large building) architecture:
1. Meadows Building
2. 3525 Turtle Creek
3. Republic Center
3. Statler Hilton
4. Great National Life Insurance

Combined with the library it still deserves the title of "best block of Mid-Century Modern architecture in downtown Dallas."

Three new things at The Statler: Waterproof, the rooftop bar, is open; José de Rivera's "A Wishing Star" has been restored; Scout, the bar with bowling lanes and other games, looks close to opening.

Scout looks great—we asked about opening and the front desk said “Q1.”

But it’s destined to be the Rec Room for all of Downtown.

willyk wrote:Scout looks great—we asked about opening and the front desk said “Q1.”

But it’s destined to be the Rec Room for all of Downtown.

Scout opened yesterday. I haven't been, but a friend says it's awesome.

https://dallasinnovates.com/dallas-pop- ... ear-round/

The Unbranded pop-up spaces that show up irregularly downtown are going to a permanent space at The Statler. With the move, the retailer is converting to an ongoing status, with a single-vendor focus every couple of months.

flyswatter wrote:https://dallas.eater.com/2018/2/22/17040030/scout-statler-downtown-dallas-open-photos

Wow, that looks awesome! It also looks really, really big, which I hope isn't an issue money-wise if it isn't jam-packed all the time.

If you want to pay 10$ to play on a pool table or ping pong then this is the place for you. Bowling will be 40$. If that doesn't bother you then it will be great. If you think paying that much for a pool table is crazy you have plenty of bars in town with an open pool table for a few quarters.

https://www.scoutdallas.com/games/

cowboyeagle05 wrote:If you want to pay 10$ to play on a pool table or ping pong then this is the place for you. Bowling will be 40$. If that doesn't bother you then it will be great. If you think paying that much for a pool table is crazy you have plenty of bars in town with an open pool table for a few quarters.

https://www.scoutdallas.com/games/

Oh, my... those prices are painful.

I visited on Wednesday, and they’re still playing with the menu. Prices seemed good, though. Beers and sandwiches were reasonable.

The ping pong rates seem silly, not sure what pool tables typically run. The bowling prices aren't terrible compared to places like Bowl and Barrel ($30/hr off-peak, $50/hr weekends) or Bowlounge ($4.75/game/person off-peak, $6.80/game/person on peak).

I hope this does well and carves a path for other amusement vendors downtown. It'd be really cool to see something like Free Play Arcade go into one of the empty retail storefronts.

Yikes. This is going to be costly:

Residents in downtown Dallas' historic Statler Hotel will have to relocate for repairs

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... te-repairs

It's a little surprising that almost a year after opening they only have about 130 residents in 219 apartments.

I looked just yesterday at availability online and they showed almost nothing. Maybe because of the problem they took all the inventory offline temporarily?

flyswatter wrote:I looked just yesterday at availability online and they showed almost nothing. Maybe because of the problem they took all the inventory offline temporarily?

That seems like a good possibility. If there are only 130 residents, that suggests they are only about 50% occupancy, at best.

Yeah. When I saw it I was impressed at how fast it filled. Now, not so much

New renderings for the 6 story residential/retail building facing Harwood Park. Looks 1000x better than the initial proposal. Especially the ground level design and the added balconies on the park facing side. Build it now. The article also mentions it could go condo which would be great. There are no new condo options downtown other than the large, very expensive townhouses near Farmer's Market.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... allas-park

For comparison:


I agree, it looks significantly better, and I'm really liking the look of the ground floor. I thought it was all but certain this would be a condo building, but I guess that's still up in the air? But yeah, we need some new condos hitting the market, there are way too many new, luxury apartment complexes going up.

I like it and will look nice with the park across the street. I'm excited to watch the Farmer's Market area slowly connect with this area.

January comments from Landmark Commission:

210 S HARWOOD ST
Harwood Historic District

Courtesy Review - Construct a seven-story multifamily residential structure. - Approve conceptually with the recommendation that the applicant consider better distinguishing the front main entrance to the structure, and with the condition that final plans, elevations, and details are submitted for final Landmark Commission review.

http://dallascityhall.com/government/me ... C-Mins.pdf


November comments from Landmark Commission:

210 S HARWOOD ST
Harwood Historic District

Courtesy Review - Construct a five-story multifamily residential structure. - Approve conceptually with the conditions that the applicant consider exterior materials more in keeping with the existing historic architecture in the district, and that final plans, elevations, and details are submitted for final Landmark Commission review.

http://dallascityhall.com/government/me ... C-Mins.pdf

R1070 wrote:I like it and will look nice with the park across the street. I'm excited to watch the Farmer's Market area slowly connect with this area.

Not to mention the large redevelopment going on around it


https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... r-upgrades

Still just a giant hole in the ground

Looks like the next restaurant facing Commerce is almost done.

I rented a room for fun this weekend. This whole is top notch. The bathroom was majestic. And the bar on the 19th floor is bonkers!

Wow, T_K, glad to see you took the plunge. So the ceilings and doorways aren't too short in height?

I meant to post this sooner, but as I passed by the complex the other day, I noticed that just to the right of the DMN entrance, new TX historical markers have been set up for the DMN and A.H. Belo Corp. I wondered about this, since there were historical markers in front of the previous Young St. complex before. I hadn't heard the plans for those or if they had to stay there, or what. Well, other than the Young St. rock of truth, it looks like everything else has since made the move.

Hopefully the 2 DMN markers will stick around longer than the marker on Pacific about the crossing of the Houston & TX Central and the TX & Pacific RRs did before it was pilfered.

jrd1964 wrote:Wow, T_K, glad to see you took the plunge. So the ceilings and doorways aren't too short in height?

Not at all. I got the city view suite. It's bad ass. The bathroom was massive; open concept and modern . The lights through out the room are remote controlled. King size bed!

This hotel had tons of foot traffic at 1-3am. People coming in n out. Hopefully Cambria is as hip as this place.

5/5.

Great service as well. I got a quick history lesson of the building as I got escorted to my suite. The attention to detail in this place is top notch. Highly recommend.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

jrd1964 wrote:Wow, T_K, glad to see you took the plunge. So the ceilings and doorways aren't too short in height?

Not at all. I got the city view suite. It's bad ass. The bathroom was massive; open concept and modern . The lights through out the room are remote controlled. King size bed!

This hotel had tons of foot traffic at 1-3am. People coming in n out. Hopefully Cambria is as hip as this place.

5/5.

Great service as well. I got a quick history lesson of the building as I got escorted to my suite. The attention to detail in this place is top notch. Highly recommend.

The hotel and apartments must be like night and day. Mostly negative reviews on the residences.

I read some of the Yelp reviews and I'm glad I decided to lease at The Merc instead of The Statler this past Winter. It is a beautifully done building but this fire system error seems to be making people's lives a living hell. What confused me though is that many reviews mention that they moved in on 15 month leases, and shortly after Centurion American notified them that they were being evicted so they could lease to "Stay Alfred" which is an Airbnb type setup. Were the leases here not standard? A landlord can't just evict someone after a few months to lease to someone else. Not without cause.

Matt777 wrote:I read some of the Yelp reviews and I'm glad I decided to lease at The Merc instead of The Statler this past Winter. It is a beautifully done building but this fire system error seems to be making people's lives a living hell. What confused me though is that many reviews mention that they moved in on 15 month leases, and shortly after Centurion American notified them that they were being evicted so they could lease to "Stay Alfred" which is an Airbnb type setup. Were the leases here not standard? A landlord can't just evict someone after a few months to lease to someone else. Not without cause.

I was thinking the same thing. You can’t evict a tenant under a valid lease so you can rent it out to another part at a higher rent. There’s gotta be more to the story.

OMG. Stay Alfred also deals with the residences at the LTV Tower and the Mayflower. I have heard that firm has instances of one-hand-doesn't-know-what-the-other-hand-is-doing when it comes to reservations and arrangements.

I don't understand.... *if* the non-hotel part of the Statler is supposed to be residences, why are they treating that section like lodging? If they're going the Airbnb-ish route, the whole place should be a hotel.

Corporate extended stays tend to go for higher dollar than a normal tenant, and since it's a full unit with kitchens and bedrooms it's more desirable. I work with someone who rents out his condo on vrbo for extended stays like that and makes way more than if he rented it out to a tenant. Rent out a unit for $1600/month, or $169 a night like this one? https://www.vrbo.com/4762715ha

Easy money if you can get traction on it.

jrd1964 wrote:I don't understand.... *if* the non-hotel part of the Statler is supposed to be residences, why are they treating that section like lodging? If they're going the Airbnb-ish route, the whole place should be a hotel.

Seems their original intention was to actually have residential units, seeing as how they built apartments and also leased a lot of them out. I guess by the time the building was complete, and apartments and hotel rooms started leasing/getting booked, they realized there was more money in going the Airbnb route. Perhaps they will change their strategy sometime down the line, who knows.

I know one of the people who posted a one-star review and I believe him 100%. It's amazing that Centurion didn't fix the condensation problem in the windows and even more absurd that they terminated leases just to accommodate those short-term rentals. Sounds like a complete disaster over there.




https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-statler-residences-dallas

I wonder if those condensation issues were a freak incident. I’ve lived in another apartment tower downtown and have never had condensation issues EXCEPT for a stretch in January or February of this year.

The sprinkler system issue and the termination of leases, though, are troubling. Not a good start to have a 1 star rating on Yelp.

Dallas will have crossed another threshold if a big part of the residential turns into residential hotel units; having hotel apartments that rent for a season is a sign of neighborhood strength.

Disappointing that the residential component is whacked out; but you know, if the hotel is so buttoned up kinda makes you wonder if the traditional residential has been temporary all along. I'm sure some of these apartments can convert into sweet suites, may even have a reason to add a retail floor -- variation of the vertical mall, or even department store type.

I guess we'll see. The hotel is going to make money either way, so I hope it's not enough that the residential can be messed up and it doesn't matter.

Sprinkler system issues now at the Statler.... this could be one reason for the dampness or window condensation?

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/investi ... sts-warned

My opinion is that they have started focusing on leasing for temporary corporate housing cause those tenants are easier to deal with on something like this. The sprinkler thing was a mistake and a huge one at that. During that madness, they probably had a lot of interest from the extended stay market being that the building is so tied to the Hilton brand. Obviously, the new residential property they are building next door will be traditional apartments and they probably liked the math on the extended stay market here and someone thought they could use the sprinkler problem to scare off already leased units and still collect on people canceling leases. There will be some fairly extensive lawsuits I imagine but the developer is full steam ahead on their apartments next door and the Cabana Hotel on Stemmons and that huge development in South Dallas.

More on the Statler's sprinkler pipe issue:

https://www.dmagazine.com/commercial-re ... ys-safety/

That's kind of a weird story based on what I know about plumbing and PVC pipes. Pipe joint sealants and such for PVC are incredibly common - every 2 bit sprinkler company in the entire US and maybe the world knows what kind of sealants to buy. It's kind of odd that their installation for sprinkler system purposes would be that unique.

My guess (total guess) of what happened is that they tried to join whatever old pipes they had with new PVC in the cheapest way imaginable, and that is what is not compatible.