Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Like the way they popped out the CM and pushed up toward McKinney. The walk from Uptown West to Village will be OK now. .

I will love not having to drive out to Northwest Highway or Lovers to get to a CM. I shop there about twice a week. Nice to have a big one in the urban core.

Did construction start on April 15th?

Nothing. Went out for a walk and checked on Friday the 15th just to see if they were knocking the building down. But didn’t see any construction equipment or even a car in the parking lot. Nothing on the weekend either. Maybe cause it’s a Holliday and everything, Good Friday and Easter weekend. Hoping I see something today or tomorrow though. Can’t wait for that eyesore to be taken down.

I saw some form of action driving by this morning. There were several trucks with workers parked out in front of the building.

everyone is waiting with bated breath that it's not an installation of a for-sale sign.

uptown74 wrote:I saw some form of action driving by this morning. There were several trucks with workers parked out in front of the building.

First action would be cleaning out the existing structure in preparation for teardown, or have they already cleaned it out?

Didn't see anything different when I went by there this evening.

R1070 wrote:Didn't see anything different when I went by there this evening.

I didn't see anything yesterday afternoon as well.

Not sure if this is anything but at lunch today drove by and there were 3 white trucks on the parking lot in front of old store. Maybe indicator of preliminary work.

Hi everyone! I recently moved to the Turtle Creek area from Nashville, TN, and followed(and still do) the incredible transformation taking place in Nashville very closely. I was very adept for a lay-person(I don't work in Real Estate or Development professionally, just as a hobby) with navigating Nashville's online permits / planning documents search, and was able to find permit applications and other information very quickly, and helped local Nashville media break news about new projects there.

I say all that to say, I'm still familiarizing myself with Dallas' online permit search, and I think I've found the Demolition permit application for this project. If I'm looking at this correctly, it looks like they applied for the Demolition permit on April 8th.

Here's the link to what I've found:https://developdallas.dallascityhall.com/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=DemolitionPermitPublic&PosseObjectId=171038966

I also noticed Orange barriers at the site when I drove by this evening, not sure how long those have been there. I love Central Market (and watching new towers go up ), so I'm anxious to see this one move forward.

Also, if anyone has suggestions on where to locate planning documents, building permit applications, and etc, I'm all ears. I still follow Nashville very closely, and maintain a relationship with contacts there, but would love to add the Dallas information to my rotation of places to check.

Good to have you in Dallas and on the site! Welcome and thank you!!

Definitely! Welcome to Dallas and to the forum!

Welcome to Dallas and the forum! I used to live in Turtle Creek for sometime and enjoyed my time there, hope you do too!

turtlecreek wrote:
I say all that to say, I'm still familiarizing myself with Dallas' online permit search, and I think I've found the Demolition permit application for this project. If I'm looking at this correctly, it looks like they applied for the Demolition permit on April 8th.

Here's the link to what I've found:https://developdallas.dallascityhall.com/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=DemolitionPermitPublic&PosseObjectId=171038966

I also noticed Orange barriers at the site when I drove by this evening, not sure how long those have been there. I love Central Market (and watching new towers go up ), so I'm anxious to see this one move forward.

Nice looks like the permit was just issued today!

turtlecreek wrote:Hi everyone! I recently moved to the Turtle Creek area from Nashville, TN, and followed(and still do) the incredible transformation taking place in Nashville very closely. I was very adept for a lay-person(I don't work in Real Estate or Development professionally, just as a hobby) with navigating Nashville's online permits / planning documents search, and was able to find permit applications and other information very quickly, and helped local Nashville media break news about new projects there.

I say all that to say, I'm still familiarizing myself with Dallas' online permit search, and I think I've found the Demolition permit application for this project. If I'm looking at this correctly, it looks like they applied for the Demolition permit on April 8th.

Here's the link to what I've found:https://developdallas.dallascityhall.com/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=DemolitionPermitPublic&PosseObjectId=171038966

I also noticed Orange barriers at the site when I drove by this evening, not sure how long those have been there. I love Central Market (and watching new towers go up ), so I'm anxious to see this one move forward.

Also, if anyone has suggestions on where to locate planning documents, building permit applications, and etc, I'm all ears. I still follow Nashville very closely, and maintain a relationship with contacts there, but would love to add the Dallas information to my rotation of places to check.

Great find & welcome to the 214! Would love to have you pop in the Discord. Lot of great chats there and I have a resources section that may be useful to you. Pop in and let me know you're the Nashville transplant! (link to join is in my signature)

Saw there was 3 white pick up trucks (again) in the parking lot and they were spraying down the orange and white barricades on the left side of the building. Walked right up to the gate where one of the workers was hanging and politely asked him if he knew when they were gonna start demoing the building. Without hesitation he said “June 1st”. I said “Oh ok great, thank you. I heard they were supposed to start April 15 but they obviously didn’t make that deadline.” and he said “Yea, they keep pushing the date back cause they didn’t have the budget to start it.” Then he kind of shrugged his shoulders. June 1st ain’t bad. Right around the corner.

hbkabc wrote:Saw there was 3 white pick up trucks (again) in the parking lot and they were spraying down the orange and white barricades on the left side of the building. Walked right up to the gate where one of the workers was hanging and politely asked him if he knew when they were gonna start demoing the building. Without hesitation he said “June 1st”. I said “Oh ok great, thank you. I heard they were supposed to start April 15 but they obviously didn’t make that deadline.” and he said “Yea, they keep pushing the date back cause they didn’t have the budget to start it.” Then he kind of shrugged his shoulders. June 1st ain’t bad. Right around the corner.

Didn’t have the budget to start it? That’s concerning.

Would hope they've already secured the financing for this project - if they haven't locked in a rate, then they might need to go back to Investors for additional equity.

Developer KDC is ready to build with backing of new partners
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -partners/

KDC has built North Texas corporate campuses for clients including Toyota, JPMorgan Chase, State Farm Insurance and Pioneer Natural Resources. Now the developer is pivoting to also do multitenant office projects in Uptown Dallas, Plano, Frisco and Richardson.

One of the projects KDC is eyeing is a 30-story high-rise in Dallas’ Uptown district. The Parkside Uptown tower is planned at Woodall Rodgers Freeway and Harwood Street and will have almost 500,000 square feet of space.

KDC has pulled the project to the front burner given the recent strong office leasing activity in the area north of downtown Dallas.
“We’ve been sending proposals out on it, and there is good activity,” KDC senior vice president Aarica Mims said. “Parkside Uptown offers something different from the competition.

“It’s really the last development site on Klyde Warren Park.”

Also in Uptown, KDC hopes to start construction soon on a development that will include a residential tower, offices and a Central Market grocery store. The McKinney Avenue project has been in the works for several years.

lakewoodhobo wrote:Developer KDC is ready to build with backing of new partners
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -partners/

KDC has built North Texas corporate campuses for clients including Toyota, JPMorgan Chase, State Farm Insurance and Pioneer Natural Resources. Now the developer is pivoting to also do multitenant office projects in Uptown Dallas, Plano, Frisco and Richardson.

One of the projects KDC is eyeing is a 30-story high-rise in Dallas’ Uptown district. The Parkside Uptown tower is planned at Woodall Rodgers Freeway and Harwood Street and will have almost 500,000 square feet of space.

KDC has pulled the project to the front burner given the recent strong office leasing activity in the area north of downtown Dallas.
“We’ve been sending proposals out on it, and there is good activity,” KDC senior vice president Aarica Mims said. “Parkside Uptown offers something different from the competition.

“It’s really the last development site on Klyde Warren Park.”

Also in Uptown, KDC hopes to start construction soon on a development that will include a residential tower, offices and a Central Market grocery store. The McKinney Avenue project has been in the works for several years.

They’ve been planning to start construction soon on this development for about 8 years now. Something is fishy about this project.

Went by the site today, no demo work has started as of yet.

turtlecreek wrote:Went by the site today, no demo work has started as of yet.

They may have put it on hold again with a recession looming & interest rates rising.

At this point, I'd just be happy with them leveling the property and having a blank lot.

Somebody on Reddit just posted that he knew the Project Managers on this Central Market job. His comment on why it hasn't started yet: "Blame the owner. The construction company is ready to start but the owner/developer won't sign the contract. I know the PMs on that job. Technically it was supposed to start 3-4 years ago."

hbkabc wrote:Somebody on Reddit just posted that he knew the Project Managers on this Central Market job. His comment on why it hasn't started yet: "Blame the owner. The construction company is ready to start but the owner/developer won't sign the contract. I know the PMs on that job. Technically it was supposed to start 3-4 years ago."

*sigh*

hbkabc wrote:Somebody on Reddit just posted that he knew the Project Managers on this Central Market job. His comment on why it hasn't started yet: "Blame the owner. The construction company is ready to start but the owner/developer won't sign the contract. I know the PMs on that job. Technically it was supposed to start 3-4 years ago."

Don't hold your breath on this one. I think this one will remain dormant for sometime to come. This is a prime example of the Recession giving a developer cold feet. Even HEB is rethinking everything.

rono3849 wrote:

hbkabc wrote:Somebody on Reddit just posted that he knew the Project Managers on this Central Market job. His comment on why it hasn't started yet: "Blame the owner. The construction company is ready to start but the owner/developer won't sign the contract. I know the PMs on that job. Technically it was supposed to start 3-4 years ago."

Don't hold your breath on this one. I think this one will remain dormant for sometime to come. This is a prime example of the Recession giving a developer cold feet. Even HEB is rethinking everything.

Do you have a source for this?

They just issued a RFP for yet another store (Prosper) and their 3 stores under construction are moving full steam ahead.

H-E-B benefits from not being a publicly-traded company that's burdened with a ton of debt and has to answer to shareholders, making it less prone to recession pains.

HEB sat on their Plano lot for like 5 years after the zoning approval was done that set the land as a grocery store, not sure how long they owned the land before that. They are not a company that feels the pressure to act on anyone's timeline but their own.

The_Overdog wrote:HEB sat on their Plano lot for like 5 years after the zoning approval was done that set the land as a grocery store, not sure how long they owned the land before that. They are not a company that feels the pressure to act on anyone's timeline but their own.

I understand that.

But the other poster suggested the presumptive recession we're heading into is causing H-E-B to reconsider their plans that are in motion.

I've seen no evidence of that.

I emailed the Executive Director of Uptown Dallas Inc. to see if she knew the reason behind the delay or if the deal fell through with Central Market or what. She responded: "It is my understanding that the deal is still very much happening. I know we are all anxious for it to get underway."

hbkabc wrote:I emailed the Executive Director of Uptown Dallas Inc. to see if she knew the reason behind the delay or if the deal fell through with Central Market or what. She responded: "It is my understanding that the deal is still very much happening. I know we are all anxious for it to get underway."

Lol - she’s a lovely person but she doesn’t have any inside scoop. I gave her the link to this forum last year to help her stay up to date on a project she asked about.

My intel says financing is still in the works, which might explain the hold up on contract signature.

But the other poster suggested the presumptive recession we're heading into is causing H-E-B to reconsider their plans that are in motion.

I agree with that too, that suggestion was complete nonsense.

It is related to the developer not Central Market. It could be a myriad of issues with financing, zoning, permits etc. when I spoke with the person at Central Market they said that they were at the mercy of the developer but hoped for an April kickoff. Probably more concerning is the inflation and recession could overnight dry up financing even for rock solid projects.

They’ve been working on this project for 5+ years now. This project is not going to happen. Central Market needs to cut their losses and sell the property to a developer with the finances and desire to get something built here, even if means a smaller project. Anything will be better than these acres of asphalt sitting vacant and derelict. It really zaps the energy out of this area.

Jbarn wrote:They’ve been working on this project for 5+ years now. This project is not going to happen. Central Market needs to cut their losses and sell the property to a developer with the finances and desire to get something built here, even if means a smaller project. Anything will be better than these acres of asphalt sitting vacant and derelict. It really zaps the energy out of this area.

As the property has been dormant, the interest rates are going up. The financing for this project is increasing by the day. I really think this one is a goner now. HEB would be wise to sell the land and move on.

rono3849 wrote:

Jbarn wrote:They’ve been working on this project for 5+ years now. This project is not going to happen. Central Market needs to cut their losses and sell the property to a developer with the finances and desire to get something built here, even if means a smaller project. Anything will be better than these acres of asphalt sitting vacant and derelict. It really zaps the energy out of this area.

As the property has been dormant, the interest rates are going up. The financing for this project is increasing by the day. I really think this one is a goner now. HEB would be wise to sell the land and move on.

Or, better yet, just build a standalone regular H-E-B.

(I know, that won't happen...)

I do think HEB will abandon this development now. The developers sat on this way too long. The market is cooling off and the Recession is killing real estate in its tracks unless financing was locked down prior to these Fed rate increases.

Today’s source says financing is all set and the delay is due to the developer. Hard to know if this will ever happen

Looks like they've painted the concrete under the light posts a bright green for some reason... not sure what that means.

^^[Noticed the same and wondering the same!

HEB already has another site a few blocks away…

BoldD wrote:HEB already has another site a few blocks away…

I hope they build an HEB on that lot in Oak Lawn. That would be nice to have an HEB and Central Market close to each other.

This one is such a head-scratcher.

Usually green means sewer, but at this point it could also be graffiti.

MC_ScattCat wrote:Usually green means sewer, but at this point it could also be graffiti.

It's certainly intentionally painted. The whole concrete base of each is neatly painted.

I have seen no activity on this site for over 6 weeks. Seems really delayed at this point. This leaves a huge gap and energy void for this area if left in its current state.

I think what we may be seeing on this and a number of other announced 'fantasies' is the usual 'end of boom', Dallas fade-to-black.

This wasn't that fantastical...