Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

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Ace
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Ace » 22 Jan 2021 08:43

I see the recent decimation of luxury retail in downtown Dallas a punch in the gut for retail in general in that area. That should raise the level of prime in
Uptown, Turtle Creek, and Knox Park.
The Intersection of McKinney and Lemmon Avenue just can't be beat. However, they did build all those towers downtown in the mid eighties and they never came to fill them up pertaining to all those empty monumental edifices. Still, all that millions of square feet of empty office space there should keeps things flat in the market.

So many ground-zero prime intersections in Central Dallas. Still, this location can't be beat!

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby MC_ScattCat » 27 Jan 2021 15:20

Anyway....

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eburress
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby eburress » 27 Jan 2021 16:17

hahahahahahaha

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby DPatel304 » 07 Feb 2021 17:16

I wish this development would have taken the 2000 Ross Ave. approach and built the thing in phases. Perhaps we would have already had the Central Markt + Garage by now, even if they weren't ready to build the residential portion.

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eburress
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby eburress » 08 Feb 2021 09:33

DPatel304 wrote:I wish this development would have taken the 2000 Ross Ave. approach and built the thing in phases. Perhaps we would have already had the Central Markt + Garage by now, even if they weren't ready to build the residential portion.

It's funny to think of the 2000 Ross model being the ideal when you think about all the worry on here about it being a boondoggle, we'd be left with a hulking garage, and so on. I'm so glad that worked out and yeah, in retrospect maybe that's what should have happened here.

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Redblock
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Redblock » 08 Feb 2021 10:39

This Central Market project has a new zoning change request sign posted. It is case number Z201-178.

Maybe it will show some new renderings or plans.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 Feb 2021 13:51

That's because that project was purely about parking for Trammel Crow Center and was put in tenant leases with a guaranty of some sort. The Hotel and Residential Portions were just icing on the cake if they ever materialized on that project.

Central Market has never been in a rush and its not like grocery's are lacking in this areas. The other portions like Hotel and Office space were not in as high demand. There is a sharp difference in parking to keep a big name tenant in a signature office building vs a luxurious Grocery Store who has been in the planning stages for almost a decade with a office high-rise without a name tenant to speak of in the wings.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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rogerroger
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby rogerroger » 08 Mar 2021 11:14

HEB's president was interviewed by DMN this past weekend. He was asked a direct question on this project.
Q: What’s happening with the Central Market store in Uptown Dallas?

It’s a fabulous location and we’re having to be patient. KDC is a strong partner. The city has been very supportive. We were approaching groundbreaking right before the pandemic began. Obviously, it’s a big, expensive project. And there was quite a bit of new office space included. There’s obviously a reluctance now with the uncertainty about how people will be working for any investor, financial institution, developer or owner to commit a large amount of money into new office space. So KDC is redesigning the project. And we look forward to seeing those new plans. So we will have an unfortunate delay, but there is no lessening of our enthusiasm that this will be a great project. It will be for the city of Dallas a terrific addition to a really exciting part of the city. Everyone involved is very committed. We’re just being patient. When the project is complete, we’ll be glad we waited and did it right.


Looks like HEB is committed to this project but taking their sweet ole time. Interested in seeing these updated plans and how they change the office. Hopefully they don't downside this entire project too much.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby rono3849 » 08 Mar 2021 12:41

rogerroger wrote:HEB's president was interviewed by DMN this past weekend. He was asked a direct question on this project.
Q: What’s happening with the Central Market store in Uptown Dallas?

It’s a fabulous location and we’re having to be patient. KDC is a strong partner. The city has been very supportive. We were approaching groundbreaking right before the pandemic began. Obviously, it’s a big, expensive project. And there was quite a bit of new office space included. There’s obviously a reluctance now with the uncertainty about how people will be working for any investor, financial institution, developer or owner to commit a large amount of money into new office space. So KDC is redesigning the project. And we look forward to seeing those new plans. So we will have an unfortunate delay, but there is no lessening of our enthusiasm that this will be a great project. It will be for the city of Dallas a terrific addition to a really exciting part of the city. Everyone involved is very committed. We’re just being patient. When the project is complete, we’ll be glad we waited and did it right.


Looks like HEB is committed to this project but taking their sweet ole time. Interested in seeing these updated plans and how they change the office. Hopefully they don't downside this entire project too much.


I know someone who works with HEB and confirmed they are very deliberate about any big moves the company makes. The company doesn't feel the need to rush things, so I'd expect them to do it on "HEB Time".

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 Mar 2021 13:10

Well, it's pretty obvious HEB isn't looking to take on the financial commitment of just a store on such a precious spot. They need the multi-use to make it work for them and they aren't looking to build the store with a garage and then later on restart construction when a JW Marriot wants to build on top like what JP Morgan Assets has done with their garage for Trammel Crow Tower.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Tnexster » 05 Apr 2021 12:14

Uptown Dallas’ Central Market project will add hundreds of residential units
Developers are ditching office and hotel buildings in favor of more multifamily construction.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ial-units/


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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Apr 2021 13:03

I figured this is what the developers were going to do, but glad it's official and also glad it didn't take them too long to put out another update. Makes me feel like they are still eager to get this one off the ground.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Cbdallas » 05 Apr 2021 15:02

800 plus more people living right there will help support the restaurants and stores in that area. I say build baby build so I don't have to drive to Lovers and 75 to go to Central Market anymore.

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby R1070 » 05 Apr 2021 15:39

There’s plenty of land around there that could be developed into office or hotel when the market picks up.

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tamtagon
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby tamtagon » 05 Apr 2021 17:04

^totally. And a greater population will add to the desirability of nearby office and hotel space.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby DPatel304 » 05 Apr 2021 17:56

R1070 wrote:There’s plenty of land around there that could be developed into office or hotel when the market picks up.


That's a good point. For some reason, it doesn't feel like this is the case, since this is right next to West Village and a couple of towers, but there is PLENTY of land that could be re-developed like you said.

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Jbarn
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Jbarn » 05 Apr 2021 19:15

Now it needs to work its way through the plan commission and the city council, and the certain neighborhood pushback. Should be breaking ground in about two years.


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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby LongonBigD » 08 Apr 2021 17:53

Intersting to note that the Manny's Uptown plot is still not part of this development. Also notice that there is no vehicular entrance or exit on McKinney Ave (similar to Whole Foods down the road).

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby R1070 » 08 Apr 2021 21:04

All of McKinney should have their development entrances on side streets. It’s so chopped up with curb cutouts right now.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 09 Apr 2021 21:48

In this case, it's easy to make the argument to have it on Lemmon though since it's a very busy auto-oriented street.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Tnexster » 27 May 2021 10:18

Uptown Dallas’ Central Market development plans approved by city council
McKinney Avenue project will include popular grocer and 800 apartments.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... y-council/

Dallas’ city council on Wednesday gave unanimous approval to KDC’s new plans for the Uptown project.

Updated plans for the almost 5-acre project show the tallest residential tower would be more than 20 floors.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby potatocoins » 27 May 2021 10:29

Wonderful! Can't wait to see this one break ground, it'll be such a huge improvement to the area.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby undefinedprocess » 27 May 2021 10:36

potatocoins wrote:Wonderful! Can't wait to see this one break ground, it'll be such a huge improvement to the area.

Agreed, the addition of 800 units will be insane. Fully leased/occupied, that's what, probably an additional 900-1,000 people living in the area? Plus, the grocery access, as well as the traffic it'll create.

Side note, was playing around on Google Earth in 3D view for this project and the views from these residential towers should be incredible. Not that I could afford one of these units. :lol:

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby rogerroger » 27 May 2021 12:07

Sweet. Have they posted plans on what the update will look like?

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Cbdallas
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Cbdallas » 27 May 2021 14:41

Did a search but could not find any revised plans to show what it will look like.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby myelbow4 » 27 May 2021 19:21

When will they actually start construction? So tired of seeing that empty lot in such a great location.

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rono3849
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby rono3849 » 27 May 2021 21:38

myelbow4 wrote:When will they actually start construction? So tired of seeing that empty lot in such a great location.


HEB is known for taking their time on big projects. They held out of the Houston market for years, then came in like a banshee. Within five years, they are now the #1 grocery store chain in that city. They even beat out Walmart. They are smart operators, so they are being deliberate in their moves here in Dallas.

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Addison
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Addison » 28 May 2021 10:23

rono3849 wrote:
myelbow4 wrote:When will they actually start construction? So tired of seeing that empty lot in such a great location.


HEB is known for taking their time on big projects. They held out of the Houston market for years, then came in like a banshee. Within five years, they are now the #1 grocery store chain in that city. They even beat out Walmart. They are smart operators, so they are being deliberate in their moves here in Dallas.


It should be noted, H-E-B's entry into Houston was before Walmart Supercenters were a factor (Dallas is Walmart's #1 market). And it was also when Albertson's had pulled out of Houston. WinCo and Super Target (of all major metros in the US, only Minneapolis has more Super Targets than Dallas) also weren't factors.

So H-E-B's successfully rapid expansion there won't be easily repeated in Dallas (and H-E-B is aware of this).

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby I45Tex » 28 May 2021 14:33

Kroger does have a few more stores in the Houston MSA than in the Metroplex, and that is true of other chains like Fiesta Mart, Randalls (now part of Albertsons), and Food Town as well. But AppleTree (formerly Safeway) had already waned due to failed financial stunts by the time HEB entered Houston in 2001.

https://www.heb.com/static-page/article ... ur-History

Their dramatic push for locations inside the 610 Loop has been in the past five years, however, once more and more of the textured old blocks of amusing neighborhoods had been converted into blind alleys full of matching two-car-garage doors for townhomes with high grocery budgets to match.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Cbdallas » 05 Aug 2021 13:35

Silence.....sigh nothing.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Cbdallas » 30 Aug 2021 09:43

Ok finally straight from the higher up mouth of HEB/Central Market. I was shopping this last Saturday at CM at Northwest Hwy and noticed a person with a name tag on but was dressed up and the store was extra alert. I realized this was an onsite visit from Corporate. I went up and straight asked what was up with the project and he said that it is all on the move and to expect a Spring 2022 construction start with CM taking over their space in late 2023 but more like early 2024. He said he is actually happier with the new design and that it would be a better fit overall. The reason they had to go back and change the design is that the banks would not loan the amount they needed to do the original office tower so they went bigger residential with some small boutique office in place. So basically a couple more years from now.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby rono3849 » 30 Aug 2021 10:20

Cbdallas wrote:Ok finally straight from the higher up mouth of HEB/Central Market. I was shopping this last Saturday at CM at Northwest Hwy and noticed a person with a name tag on but was dressed up and the store was extra alert. I realized this was an onsite visit from Corporate. I went up and straight asked what was up with the project and he said that it is all on the move and to expect a Spring 2022 construction start with CM taking over their space in late 2023 but more like early 2024. He said he is actually happier with the new design and that it would be a better fit overall. The reason they had to go back and change the design is that the banks would not loan the amount they needed to do the original office tower so they went bigger residential with some small boutique office in place. So basically a couple more years from now.


The Dallas Morning News should hire you. Seriously, that's more info than Steve Brown has reported.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby MC_ScattCat » 30 Aug 2021 13:38

By chance did they mention anything on the Bishop Arts location?

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Addison » 30 Aug 2021 15:10

Cbdallas wrote:Ok finally straight from the higher up mouth of HEB/Central Market. I was shopping this last Saturday at CM at Northwest Hwy and noticed a person with a name tag on but was dressed up and the store was extra alert. I realized this was an onsite visit from Corporate. I went up and straight asked what was up with the project and he said that it is all on the move and to expect a Spring 2022 construction start with CM taking over their space in late 2023 but more like early 2024. He said he is actually happier with the new design and that it would be a better fit overall. The reason they had to go back and change the design is that the banks would not loan the amount they needed to do the original office tower so they went bigger residential with some small boutique office in place. So basically a couple more years from now.


That's nice to know, but IMO it was also a missed opportunity to possibly get more info about future locations for H-E-B stores besides Plano, Frisco and McKinney.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby ForumFollowsFunction » 30 Aug 2021 18:20

Cbdallas wrote:Ok finally straight from the higher up mouth of HEB/Central Market. I was shopping this last Saturday at CM at Northwest Hwy and noticed a person with a name tag on but was dressed up and the store was extra alert. I realized this was an onsite visit from Corporate. I went up and straight asked what was up with the project and he said that it is all on the move and to expect a Spring 2022 construction start with CM taking over their space in late 2023 but more like early 2024. He said he is actually happier with the new design and that it would be a better fit overall. The reason they had to go back and change the design is that the banks would not loan the amount they needed to do the original office tower so they went bigger residential with some small boutique office in place. So basically a couple more years from now.


Amazing intel. Bravo

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Jbarn
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Jbarn » 30 Aug 2021 18:48

This is turning into a 10 year project. I am still not convinced it is going to happen. For instance, now that they have everything in place, why is it going to be probably 6 to 9 months before it even starts construction? I am willing to bet when that time rolls around, there will be another delay. In the time that they first announced this building, there have probably been 20 or more new buildings that have gone up in the uptown area. Something ain’t right here.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 31 Aug 2021 09:28

HEB goes to the beat of their own drum. They don't seem to be in any rush and that's probably because they already have a CM across the highway

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Tucy
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Tucy » 31 Aug 2021 09:38

I wonder if some of the planned CM locations might end up being HEB, now that HEB is entering the market.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 09:46

Yeah HEB has been sitting on plans to open in DFW for years its blatantly obvious they have no rush in any of their planning. They mainly seemed to go after this plot to keep competitors out. The urban grocery market is tightly contested in well off areas of Dallas. Half the game is building stores on spots to keep your even lower priced competition from building another store and sneaking away small slices of the market share.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Addison
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Addison » 31 Aug 2021 09:52

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yeah HEB has been sitting on plans to open in DFW for years its blatantly obvious they have no rush in any of their planning. They mainly seemed to go after this plot to keep competitors out. The urban grocery market is tightly contested in well off areas of Dallas. Half the game is building stores on spots to keep your even lower priced competition from building another store and sneaking away small slices of the market share.


Yeah, but Tom Thumb & Kroger suck plus are expensive, and the "well-off urban areas" in Dallas and immediate surrounding towns have some of the crappiest Tom Thumbs and Krogers in the entire Metroplex. They're dungeons.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 31 Aug 2021 10:02

Addison wrote:Yeah, but Tom Thumb & Kroger suck plus are expensive, and the "well-off urban areas" in Dallas and immediate surrounding towns have some of the crappiest Tom Thumbs and Krogers in the entire Metroplex. They're dungeons.


Haha I shop at Kroger 4 days a week but its priced for my convenience being literally across the street from me so why get the car out when I can be in and out and stays within my budget anyway. We will see if they ever build that Kroger on Hall street if they urban Kroger model turns out anything different.

I seriously doubt HEB will build a urban inner city store of any kind. They did start to get that land together on Lemmon and Oak Lawn but I think we already had a post somewhere that they are selling that land when they got the West Village plot.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Cbdallas
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Cbdallas » 31 Aug 2021 11:35

The HEB representative clearly stated that they are waiting on KDC to get things in motion and they don't have control of that aspect. As far as other urban spots going to an HEB store I don't see that for a while. Central Market is obviously their baby for urban Dallas and they are not ready to compete in the center of the city with HEB grocery store, but if the right spot opened I am sure they would consider it solely based on it being a good business deal.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby nth016 » 01 Dec 2021 14:59

Don't believe I'd seen these rendering posted before. Appears to be revised for the additional residential and removal of office space.

https://kdc.com/our-work/mckinney-lemmon

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hbkabc
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby hbkabc » 01 Dec 2021 15:29

Yep. Definitely new to me. Good find.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby Tnexster » 01 Dec 2021 16:29

I like it, much better renderings.

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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby LongonBigD » 01 Dec 2021 17:48

Thanks for sharing. Did they go from 3 towers to 2? Or was that always the plan (2 towers). I want to say there was a hotel, office, and residential space, but maybe the hotel was always just going to be part of one of the other towers. West Village is getting really dense. It seems like every few years, there is another 20 story resi tower added. This should help the retail space fill back up. It has been eerily quiet since the two mexican restaurants vacated. It is very noticeable the amount of life those two added to the WV.

I can't tell from these renderings if they added the Manny's plot to the site footprint. DCAD still lists that as having a different owner.

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R1070
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby R1070 » 01 Dec 2021 19:20

The Manny's lot is for lease and not included. The site above lists a hotel as part of the project still. I'd love to see something happen to that Walgreens site across the street as well. Maybe that could be future office space.

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flyswatter
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Re: Uptown Dallas: Central Market at McKinney and Lemmon

Postby flyswatter » 01 Dec 2021 20:54

Let's go already! Used to have an apartment overlooking that abandoned grocery store. Eye sore with cops regularly showing up to kick homeless out.