Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **01 May 2018 15:14**

DPatel304 wrote:If it was just an average restaurant, then perhaps this news could be a good thing. I just hope they don't try and go for something super high-end.

Totally agree... We have enough of that already.

I always get smirked at with this suggestion, but I'd LOVE to see a Snuffers move into the CBD somewhere. Perhaps the Drever would make a good spot.

Posted: **01 May 2018 15:51**

mdg109 wrote:It was a really cool space, but just average tex-mex IMO. Yeah, I hope something goes in quick. That's a huge chunk of dead space for Stone Street Pl.

Is it really closing? I was there this past Saturday.

Posted: **01 May 2018 15:57**

Rumor has it Headington Cos. have leased the space.

Posted: **01 May 2018 16:05**

ArtVandelay wrote:Rumor has it Headington Cos. have leased the space.

I hope so. They bring great concepts. Sol Irlandés was ok. Nothing great. I will miss the memories I made there though.

Posted: **01 May 2018 16:29**

The other retail news today is that TenOverSix is moving into the first floor of Forty Five Ten, leaving a vacant space on Commerce for now.

You need an acronym dictionary to understand the article though: https://www.dmagazine.com/shopping-fash ... -five-ten/

Posted: **02 May 2018 08:25**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
ArtVandelay wrote:Rumor has it Headington Cos. have leased the space.

I hope so. They bring great concepts. Sol Irlandés was ok. Nothing great. I will miss the memories I made there though.

100% agree on Headington's offerings. Everything I've been to restaurant-wise has been outstanding.

Posted: **02 May 2018 08:45**

Well, it's no surprise if Headington leased that space since it faces their hotel entrance. Sadly though whatever they put in will probably be high end.

Posted: **02 May 2018 10:54**

Why is High end sad???

Posted: **02 May 2018 10:57**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, it's no surprise if Headington leased that space since it faces their hotel entrance. Sadly though whatever they put in will probably be high end.

There's tons of low end stuff in the tunnels.

What Downtown need IMO are 24 hour dining options. A taco stand, pizza or even Whataburger (urban) would be good.

Posted: **02 May 2018 11:04**

Stuff that closes at 3pm.

Posted: **02 May 2018 11:23**

Cbdallas wrote:Why is High end sad???

It's bad when it's over-saturated. Too much of one thing is bad. There seems to be a lot of turnover with restaurants here and what most of them have in common is that they go overboard with upscale, yet their food is overpriced and underwhelming. We need variety in Downtown, especially restaurants. Limiting options to 7-Eleven or very high end isn't going to cut it.

Posted: **02 May 2018 11:34**

There's still an unusual lack of street-level fast casual dining in the CBD. I still can't believe Chipotle hasn't decided to reopen downtown, and you'd think that Pei Wei (newly based in DFW) would want to dump that shopping center for a flagship in the central core.

Posted: **02 May 2018 12:05**

...just like NorthPark Center, Downtown cannot have too much high end retail.

Posted: **02 May 2018 12:14**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, it's no surprise if Headington leased that space since it faces their hotel entrance. Sadly though whatever they put in will probably be high end.

Do you consider Commissary to be high end? I would say that it is compared to Subway, Chipotle or other chain spots, but I definitely appreciate the quality. That said, I wouldn't say it's high end compared to conventional sit-down spots.

Posted: **04 May 2018 14:08**

From last week. They added a signage/awning structure to the Mercantile for Royal Blue Grocery.

Posted: **04 May 2018 22:42**

Wow, that’s a nice touch. It really brings the frontage down to a human scale.

Posted: **07 May 2018 18:06**

There is a rumor going around on Reddit that Purple Onion is closing and that Ravenna is moving there. That would indicate that the building with Ravenna sold and there are plans for that space. Maybe Headington purchased it too?

Posted: **07 May 2018 20:20**

Has anyone ascertained what is being built at Happiest Hour? I thought surface parking but now I see concrete columns going in.

Posted: **07 May 2018 20:25**

Are they expanding or does this appear to be a separate structure?

Posted: **08 May 2018 10:05**

lakewoodhobo wrote:There is a rumor going around on Reddit that Purple Onion is closing and that Ravenna is moving there. That would indicate that the building with Ravenna sold and there are plans for that space. Maybe Headington purchased it too?

That's what we are hearing downtown, and Purple Onion has already closed.

Posted: **08 May 2018 10:08**

willyk wrote:Has anyone ascertained what is being built at Happiest Hour? I thought surface parking but now I see concrete columns going in.

Tnexster wrote:Are they expanding or does this appear to be a separate structure?

Oh wow, that's pretty surprising news. I have not seen the work in person myself, but, I'd imagine if they were to expand, they could just keep it simple and make the outdoor patio larger, without really needing to 'build' much of anything.

Posted: **08 May 2018 10:22**

soco wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:There is a rumor going around on Reddit that Purple Onion is closing and that Ravenna is moving there. That would indicate that the building with Ravenna sold and there are plans for that space. Maybe Headington purchased it too?

That's what we are hearing downtown, and Purple Onion has already closed.

I guess I could've done a tad more research. Headington closed on 1301 Main (Ravenna building) in January.

Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 10.20.31 AM.jpg

1301 was built in 1961 and includes the basement that was Empire Rock Bar. Would not be surprised to see it torn down this year although it's really not much to look at.

Screen Shot 2018-05-08 at 11.27.28 AM.jpg

Posted: **08 May 2018 14:20**

lakewoodhobo wrote:
soco wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:
1301 was built in 1961 and includes the basement that was Empire Rock Bar. Would not be surprised to see it torn down this year although it's really not much to look at.

They could always remodel it instead of tearing it down. And since the building is at least 50 years old (57 to be exact), isn't it subjected to Dallas's Demolition Delay for historical buildings? I know there's more to it than simply age (e.g. building has historical significance).

Posted: **08 May 2018 14:26**

The building is a turd, but the scale is about right for the corner. It could certainly use a massive face lift. But if it does get torn down, Headington better have something going up on its heels. Clearing the land simply so it's 'ready' would be very bad. Headington already has blocks of parking lots they could build on. So, hopefully they're not just adding another one.

Posted: **08 May 2018 14:58**

muncien wrote:The building is a turd, but the scale is about right for the corner. It could certainly use a massive face lift. But if it does get torn down, Headington better have something going up on its heels. Clearing the land simply so it's 'ready' would be very bad. Headington already has blocks of parking lots they could build on. So, hopefully they're not just adding another one.

Yes, the scale of that building is perfect for that corner. But I won't hold my breath when it comes to Headington, especially what they've done to the Elm side behind Forty-Five Ten and that God awful driveway.

Posted: **08 May 2018 15:05**

mcrdal15 wrote:Yes, the scale of that building is perfect for that corner. But I won't hold my breath when it comes to Headington, especially what they've done to the Elm side behind Forty-Five Ten and that God awful driveway.

This is what I'm worried about. His idea of an upscale Davis Building (Joule Residences?) no doubt includes a valet lot or some other parking amenity.

Posted: **08 May 2018 15:57**

I'll play the other side of the argument here and say Headington did an amazing job with the building that is now the Commissary. I don't know that he's got anything similar in mind here, but will definitely give credit for that one.

Posted: **08 May 2018 17:22**

lakewoodhobo wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:Yes, the scale of that building is perfect for that corner. But I won't hold my breath when it comes to Headington, especially what they've done to the Elm side behind Forty-Five Ten and that God awful driveway.

This is what I'm worried about. His idea of an upscale Davis Building (Joule Residences?) no doubt includes a valet lot or some other parking amenity.

I still don't understand how zoning allowed for that driveway behind Forty-Five Ten.

Posted: **08 May 2018 17:23**

exelone31 wrote:I'll play the other side of the argument here and say Headington did an amazing job with the building that is now the Commissary. I don't know that he's got anything similar in mind here, but will definitely give credit for that one.

^^^ This is what I'm hoping for.

Posted: **08 May 2018 18:45**

mcrdal15 wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:
mcrdal15 wrote:Yes, the scale of that building is perfect for that corner. But I won't hold my breath when it comes to Headington, especially what they've done to the Elm side behind Forty-Five Ten and that God awful driveway.

This is what I'm worried about. His idea of an upscale Davis Building (Joule Residences?) no doubt includes a valet lot or some other parking amenity.

I still don't understand how zoning allowed for that driveway behind Forty-Five Ten.

Same here and how can we make sure future zoning doesn't allow it to happen again?

Posted: **16 May 2018 10:16**

https://www.dallasnews.com/life/curious-texas/2018/05/16/really-underground-mall-downtown-dallas-curious-texas-goes-exploring

Is there really an underground mall in downtown Dallas? Curious Texas goes exploring
Brendan Meyer

...Using a map I found online titled the “Dallas Pedestrian Network,” Xan and I left The Dallas Morning News’ downtown newsroom.

...Noah Jeppson, the man who made the Dallas Pedestrian Network map, was part of that task force. The graphic designer made the map because when he tried to navigate the tunnels himself, it felt like he was in a “lost world.”

Jeppson now lives in San Francisco and works at an architecture firm. When he first saw the tunnels, he wasn’t sure what to expect.

“I think there’s this thought that it’s more mysterious than it is,” Jeppson, 36, said. “When people hear tunnels, they think of abandoned cave structures or ruins. But when they get down there, it’s like a food court or a mall."

The tunnels have been a conundrum for municipal and business decision makers for a couple generations now, and that's only because the two groups haven't embraced the ultimate utilitarian function of such infrastructure.
currently:
1) breakroom for tens of thousands of office workers; 2) this is where the trash collection happens and not on the sidewalks;

in the future: 3) climate controlled storage units for downtown residents; 4) subway access.

The only reason the best parts of two opposing visions for the tunnels have not been combined and shaped into a cohesive plan benefiting everyone is the lack of trying.

Posted: **16 May 2018 10:23**

tamtagon wrote:
https://www.dallasnews.com/life/curious-texas/2018/05/16/really-underground-mall-downtown-dallas-curious-texas-goes-exploring

Is there really an underground mall in downtown Dallas? Curious Texas goes exploring
Brendan Meyer

...Using a map I found online titled the “Dallas Pedestrian Network,” Xan and I left The Dallas Morning News’ downtown newsroom.

...Noah Jeppson, the man who made the Dallas Pedestrian Network map, was part of that task force. The graphic designer made the map because when he tried to navigate the tunnels himself, it felt like he was in a “lost world.”

Jeppson now lives in San Francisco and works at an architecture firm. When he first saw the tunnels, he wasn’t sure what to expect.

“I think there’s this thought that it’s more mysterious than it is,” Jeppson, 36, said. “When people hear tunnels, they think of abandoned cave structures or ruins. But when they get down there, it’s like a food court or a mall."

The tunnels have been a conundrum for municipal and business decision makers for a couple generations now, and that's only because the two groups haven't embraced the ultimate utilitarian function of such infrastructure.
currently:
1) breakroom for tens of thousands of office workers; 2) this is where the trash collection happens and not on the sidewalks;

in the future: 3) climate controlled storage units for downtown residents; 4) subway access.

The only reason the best parts of two opposing visions for the tunnels have not been combined and shaped into a cohesive plan benefiting everyone is the lack of trying.

I still vote for a linear, underground, art museum where food courts are done away with, conversation is minimum, and both workers and residents alike can get a break from above while enjoying works from local artists.
Whatever it ends up being... it shouldn't compete with what is going on above, but we certainly shouldn't completely turn our backs on it.

Posted: **16 May 2018 10:42**

Not exactly breaking news, but it's good to know that whatever is planned for the Sol space involves an extensive renovation of the patio area. Maybe they'll replace that vinyl enclosure with something a little more permanent.

IMG_6537.jpg

Posted: **16 May 2018 12:15**

lakewoodhobo wrote:Not exactly breaking news, but it's good to know that whatever is planned for the Sol space involves an extensive renovation of the patio area. Maybe they'll replace that vinyl enclosure with something a little more permanent.

That was fast!

Posted: **16 May 2018 13:56**

Awesome, that's good to see! The EMC corridor is really heating it as of late.

Posted: **21 May 2018 13:19**

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2018/05/21/forty-five-ten-changing-downtown-dallas-store-boost-walk-traffic-after-less-two-years

With Tenoversix moving over to Forty Five Ten, what are they going to do with the current Tenoversix space?

Posted: **21 May 2018 14:13**

dd_dweller wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2018/05/21/forty-five-ten-changing-downtown-dallas-store-boost-walk-traffic-after-less-two-years

With Tenoversix moving over to Forty Five Ten, what are they going to do with the current Tenoversix space?

They are also apparently converting the third floor from Forty Five Ten retail to office space for their marketing and buying teams. 1st floor will now be coffee bar and TenOverSix; 2nd floor will be Forty Five Ten; 3rd floor marketing and buying offices; 4th floor Mirador restaurant.

Posted: **21 May 2018 14:40**

Tucy wrote:
dd_dweller wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2018/05/21/forty-five-ten-changing-downtown-dallas-store-boost-walk-traffic-after-less-two-years

With Tenoversix moving over to Forty Five Ten, what are they going to do with the current Tenoversix space?

They are also apparently converting the third floor from Forty Five Ten retail to office space for their marketing and buying teams. 1st floor will now be coffee bar and TenOverSix; 2nd floor will be Forty Five Ten; 3rd floor marketing and buying offices; 4th floor Mirador restaurant.

Sounds like Forty Five Ten bit off more than they could chew.... We're stuck with them now so I wish them luck, but if all this fails that's going to leave me really bitter considering we lost the Praetorian and some of Dallas' oldest remaining buildings for this, and got a valet lot/driveway in return.

Posted: **21 May 2018 16:16**

Just think how it will make Headington look if Forty Five Ten fails.

Posted: **21 May 2018 17:12**

^ Pretty much came to say this.

Hopefully the message Headington gets is that the luxury retail market is oversaturated, but there's still plenty of room for moderate-mid scale retail. But nothing about the Headington organization makes me think they're interested in that segment.

Mind you, they've publicly announced their intention to turn Main Street into a luxury retail mall, with even more luxury retailers in the Davis Building. It's very telling that they're turning the third floor of Forty Five Ten into office space when they inherited so much potential office space in the ground floor of the Davis Building and also the former Revenna building. This sounds like a full on retreat from luxury retail. I don't know what that does to the plans they had for rest of Main Street.

Commerce Street and Main Street seem like they are on completely opposite trajectories in 2018.

Posted: **21 May 2018 18:45**

Korshak went years before breaking even; operating at a loss was anticipated, building clientele takes time. The bookstore and clothes store Headington brought to town could still be losing money, but probably that's the plan.

The reorganization may be unusual, but I doubt there's any danger right now. I think the luxury retail market downtown is under-saturated.

Posted: **21 May 2018 19:41**

I've meant to post about this but keep forgetting....

Does anyone know what's going on at the old Hart Furniture building? Workers going in/out, and the front door is propped open.

Posted: **22 May 2018 10:56**

They are replacing all the windows, no tenant going in. Every single window in the HART building is leaking so a month ago they got approval to update and fix the window systems in the HART building. Nothing too exciting.

Posted: **24 May 2018 14:06**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:They are replacing all the windows, no tenant going in. Every single window in the HART building is leaking so a month ago they got approval to update and fix the window systems in the HART building. Nothing too exciting.

Just a few years ago this would've been newsworthy. Glad the windows are getting replaced.

IMG_6719.jpg

Posted: **24 May 2018 16:41**

What's the story with this HART building? Why is it empty? And what's up with the sketchy night club in the back?

Posted: **25 May 2018 12:12**

Talk about a history book story I never want to re-live. Club Blue was the original name for the club I think and it caused a huge upset back and forth between the city council and the club itself for a number of years. The current operators don't make any headlines now nor have I heard of anybody that I know consider it a club worth visiting. The city long wanted a fine dining restaurant to go along with the theater but was never ever able to peak anyone's interest in the past. Now there is hotels and other food places coming closer by so maybe in the next few years someone will lease the space up.

Articles are endless about it...

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/club-blue-seeing-red-7108972

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2008/06/24/a-club-known-as-blue-a-city-kn

Posted: **25 May 2018 13:47**

By the way, the Subway inside the Hartford Building just went through a pretty dramatic renovation and in hardly any time (maybe two weeks?). Whoever that general contractor is needs to go work at the Mid Elm Lofts.

Posted: **25 May 2018 14:03**

lakewoodhobo wrote:By the way, the Subway inside the Hartford Building just went through a pretty dramatic renovation and in hardly any time (maybe two weeks?). Whoever that general contractor is needs to go work at the Mid Elm Lofts.

Do they do roads too? Ahem... Cesar Chavez.

Posted: **25 May 2018 20:17**

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Talk about a history book story I never want to re-live. Club Blue was the original name for the club I think and it caused a huge upset back and forth between the city council and the club itself for a number of years. The current operators don't make any headlines now nor have I heard of anybody that I know consider it a club worth visiting. The city long wanted a fine dining restaurant to go along with the theater but was never ever able to peak anyone's interest in the past. Now there is hotels and other food places coming closer by so maybe in the next few years someone will lease the space up.

Articles are endless about it...

http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/club-blue-seeing-red-7108972

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas-city-hall/2008/06/24/a-club-known-as-blue-a-city-kn

Good stuff. Thanks for the history. Hopefully East Quarter + Epic + Cambria breathes some life into the area and gets the density to support something nice there. We have to get rid of the unsightly surface lots.

Posted: **02 Jun 2018 15:12**

Royal Blue interior and overhang close-up.

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