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Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 26 Feb 2021 13:58
by CTroyMathis
Is it this location?: https://shopcompanies.com/properties/victory-pad-site
Across from MODA?

It lies just outside the KWP-Arts Distr. PID and even further outside the Uptown PID. Not a Harwood property as far as I know. Curiously, the former PID goes around Harwood Int'l District almost completely except for I believe the Saint Ann property. The Victory TIF is weird as it moves away from the core of the VP buildings/arena. This property isn't in the Victory TIF as far as I can tell, but, the surrounding streetscapes are. . . Also of note, the Brewery building site appears NOT to be in the Victory TIF either.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 26 Feb 2021 17:22
by clcrash19
Yes that is the location.. great for the neighborhood

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Feb 2021 10:34
by Tnexster
I drove by this yesterday and noticed the activity. Seems like whatever was there was very small. So this would not be considered part of the planned Harwood tower next door?

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 15 Mar 2021 10:49
by dalbert
IMG_2736.jpg


Moving into the old It'Sugar space on Victory Park Ln

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 15 Mar 2021 14:41
by Tivo_Kenevil
Noice!

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 15 Mar 2021 15:52
by clcrash19
Thats so awesome.. victory park is really coming along, plus we will get the retail soon on the bottom of the victor.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 16 Mar 2021 04:52
by willyk
dalbert wrote:IMG_2736.jpg

Moving into the old It'Sugar space on Victory Park Ln



Are Orange Theory and F45 still open? VP becoming the destination for working out.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 16 Mar 2021 09:13
by dalbert
willyk wrote:
dalbert wrote:IMG_2736.jpg

Moving into the old It'Sugar space on Victory Park Ln



Are Orange Theory and F45 still open? VP becoming the destination for working out.


Yes, have been open and busy most of the pandemic. Coupled with the southern trail access, it's an active neighborhood.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 19 Mar 2021 20:52
by maconahey
Image

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 20 Mar 2021 00:12
by Zmitz
Insomnia Cookies will open in the previous Buda Juice spot, the space is being renovated now.

Popbar didn't make it long, Sift + Pour doesn't seem to do a ton of business either. I wonder how long Aqua S or any other dessert place will last in the neighborhood.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Mar 2021 12:33
by cowboyeagle05
As far as I've heard there is still no personality to the neighborhood. Until Design District has more rooftops to contribute I still don't see Victory Park stabilizing. After all, Victory Park is still very separated from Uptown its a real struggle to accidentally end up over there with large wide roadways and open lots mostly controlled by Harwood International.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Mar 2021 16:10
by mdg109
I've gone to VP several times in the past year, and I'm always surprised by how active it its. Weekend nights are usually pretty lively, especially with the nicer weather. I've taken a few friends on weekend nights, and it's always a pleasant experience. It's pretty clean, less homelessness, and a lot more patios that spill out onto the sidewalk than downtown proper. As far as personality is concerned, I think it's about the same as West Village in that it's still a very much planned development as opposed to an organic neighborhood. I will say that Harwood is starting to close in, and it's starting to feel less isolated.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 08:49
by dalbert
cowboyeagle05 wrote:As far as I've heard there is still no personality to the neighborhood. Until Design District has more rooftops to contribute I still don't see Victory Park stabilizing. After all, Victory Park is still very separated from Uptown its a real struggle to accidentally end up over there with large wide roadways and open lots mostly controlled by Harwood International.


As someone who lives in VP and walks it every day, I'm shocked by this take. VP is extremely active, lively, and walkable. Especially with the nice spring weather lately. If you haven't visited recently, you may be pleasantly surprised by the foot traffic - walk down Victory Park Ln on a random Friday evening. Or with some semblance of AAC crowds back, any game night. In addition, The Union restaurants and Tom Thumb have served as the Uptown link that developers envisioned.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 09:48
by Dallas Gypsy
cowboyeagle05 wrote:As far as I've heard there is still no personality to the neighborhood. Until Design District has more rooftops to contribute I still don't see Victory Park stabilizing. After all, Victory Park is still very separated from Uptown its a real struggle to accidentally end up over there with large wide roadways and open lots mostly controlled by Harwood International.


The key word here is personality. It has foot traffic. But it has no personality. It's cold, elitist, and standoffish.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 09:54
by Cbdallas
Not sure how having a Chipotle and a Jimmy Johns is standoffish or elitist. It is expensive to live there but to visit it is serviced by DART and TRR directly so good public accessibility. I also find it very active when I walk down there.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 10:22
by dalbert
I don't know what to tell you... but it feels warm and vibrant to its residents on a daily basis. Have a drink on the Mesero or Hero patios and see for yourself

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 10:42
by DPatel304
That's actually really great to hear! I haven't been in over a year and the last time I went it seemed pretty deserted (even though it was a Sunday afternoon and the weather was perfect).

Glad to hear things have really picked up in the area, and I think the completion of The Victor and the nearby Office building will also be nice additions to the area too.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 22:26
by Tivo_Kenevil
I think the Tom Thumb has been a major plus. I go to that Tom thumb once a week. That's the biggest draw for me!

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 31 Mar 2021 15:51
by cowboyeagle05
Let's be real here what I am saying is not based on my own living there in Victory Park what I am sharing is from most people outside of the neighborhood who don't frequent there. So you could say the people I surround myself with who visit Deep Ellum, Oak Lawn, Uptown, Bishop Arts, Trinity Groves, and the Virgin Hotel in the Design District don't see Victory Park on their radar. Then again that could just be the people I talk to. When the theater opened I saw lots more friend activity down there cause the Alamo was in the Cedars and NorthPark was so far. SInce theaters are not really been a draw since the pandemic started their assumption is there is nothing to see. I'm sure those of you who live or visit often see otherwise and I hope it only grows.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 31 Mar 2021 23:02
by willyk
I think that the owners have curated the shopping more toward neighborhood retail than destination retail (except at the arena). Seems like a wise choice since VP 1.0 was intended to be like Rodeo Drive and failed spectacularly. So what you have is retail that is intended to serve the many residential developments, not the Friday and Saturday night out-on-the-town crowds.

With a large and stable residential base, VP might develop its own personality someday— note that it took a while for that to happen in DE and Bishop Arts.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 01 Apr 2021 09:25
by jetnd87
I for one love the fact that the retail is more geared towards residents. Very anti-Dallas stereotype of building flashy faux destinations vs. real services with staying power and utility for residents. Nice to build a true residential neighborhood so central to urban core. Plus, neighborhood already had one of the biggest destinations in AAC.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 02 Apr 2021 04:44
by willyk
By my count, we have about 20 residential buildings in or abutting VP. The owners are on the right track with neighborhood retail. It should succeed here.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 12 Apr 2021 23:09
by kingpin
ImageUntitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 00:10
by Tivo_Kenevil
Must we allow all parking monoliths to not even try to cover up their buttholes?

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 08:13
by rono3849
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Must we allow all parking monoliths to not even try to cover up their buttholes?


I believe those parking garages are going to be used for additional event parking at American Airlines Center since Perot is building those new developments on surrounding parking lots.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 10:10
by citygeek
My God this row of shitty, cheap parking garages lining a major freeway into the downtown core is almost without equal. As tacky as Florida can be with some of it's architecture they don't generally skip the finish-out of parking garages whether on high-rises downtown/beachfront or connected to their endless major malls around Miami and Broward. Just f'ng hideous.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 10:17
by citygeek
P.S.
Back in the day I had high hopes Victory was going to be a really great addition to the skyline but even as it's reaching build-out (and I want it to succeed) it just keeps stepping on it, in it-whatever. There is so much potential in Dallas with all the explosive growth coming to NTX in the next five to ten years. Please dear God, save us from the greige, the eternal blue-glass boxes and these damn garages.....
OK, rant over. Thanks for indulging me.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 11:07
by eburress
citygeek wrote:My God this row of shitty, cheap parking garages lining a major freeway into the downtown core is almost without equal. As tacky as Florida can be with some of it's architecture they don't generally skip the finish-out of parking garages whether on high-rises downtown/beachfront or connected to their endless major malls around Miami and Broward. Just f'ng hideous.


It's reminiscent of the view of the Las Vegas strip from I-15, with the front of the resorts facing the strip and the big parking garages visible from the freeway.

For the longest time Downtown Dallas looked great from the freeways and afar but once you were actually in Downtown, it was dead and/or blighted. Sure, it'd be great if things were pretty from all angles, but I'm actually glad Victory has opted to support the view of the neighborhood/pedestrian over what things look like from the freeway.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 12:53
by DFW
They may look somewhat ugly open but there is a reason. Enclosed above ground and or underground parking garages require significant design efforts from a mechanical ventilation system. Therefore an architectural perspective that is more expensive.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 13:34
by Tucy
DFW wrote:They may look somewhat ugly open but there is a reason. Enclosed above ground and or underground parking garages require significant design efforts from a mechanical ventilation system. Therefore an architectural perspective that is more expensive.


and operational costs as well, no?

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 14:34
by Cbdallas
Those views from the freeway are those driving through Dallas. I'll gladly take the inward views as I walk through these neighborhoods actually living in Dallas.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 14:45
by eburress
Cbdallas wrote:Those views from the freeway are those driving through Dallas. I'll gladly take the inward views as I walk through these neighborhoods actually living in Dallas.


Exactly. It's promising that the city and its developers are starting to prioritize people in neighborhoods over long distance commuters.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 13 Apr 2021 20:48
by LPG

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 14 Apr 2021 17:49
by Tivo_Kenevil
Not exactly my definition of a plaza given that it's mostly grass. But nonetheless, it can serve as a nice pocket park for the neighborhood

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Apr 2021 20:02
by ajderry2017
This is crazy. I remember driving down 35 as a kid admiring the view of the AAC. Now all the high rises are blocking it :lol:

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Apr 2021 20:05
by DPatel304
Great picture! What's amazing is this doesn't show all the growth that happened in Uptown as well.

I'm expecting the Cedars and the southern portion of the CBD to see an even more drastic change in the next 20 years.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Apr 2021 22:34
by Tivo_Kenevil
DPatel304 wrote:Great picture! What's amazing is this doesn't show all the growth that happened in Uptown as well.

I'm expecting the Cedars and the southern portion of the CBD to see an even more drastic change in the next 20 years.


If we ever see dirt fly w the Trinity river project..... I would expect the design district to transform before the cedars.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 28 Apr 2021 22:59
by Urbancowboy
Awesome pics. Thanks for sharing! It's like we are looking at a completely different city.
DTD looks so dense compared to 2001. It's continuing to grow south-ward/East Quarter and in the Design District. I can't wait to see how our already impressive skyline looks 10 years from now.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 09:39
by DPatel304
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:If we ever see dirt fly w the Trinity river project..... I would expect the design district to transform before the cedars.


That's a good point. I was thinking the HSR would be a huge catalyst for the Cedars, but I also see a lot of potential in the Design District.

Honestly, I could see a lot of dirt flying in the DD regardless of what happens to the Trinity River. We already have the Virgin Hotel, and now another high-rise on the way right next to it. I'm also wondering what will happen to the Community Brewery space now that they are moving to another location.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 09:44
by rono3849
The Design District has its own separate dynamic that makes it the prime next big thing. It has a restaurant & business community that brings in people. I suspect both Deep Ellum & Design District will be areas of growth in the coming decade as more people make them a place to work, play, & live.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 10:34
by THRILLHO
I agree. I think East Quarter, Design District, and Cedars will be the areas to watch grow this decade (in that order). Meanwhile Deep Ellum and maybe Trinity Groves will be adding decent height.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 11:00
by Warrior2020
rono3849 wrote:The Design District has its own separate dynamic that makes it the prime next big thing. It has a restaurant & business community that brings in people. I suspect both Deep Ellum & Design District will be areas of growth in the coming decade as more people make them a place to work, play, & live.


What's happening in the DD though besides the urby high rises??

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 13:30
by MC_ScattCat
DPatel304 wrote:I'm also wondering what will happen to the Community Brewery space now that they are moving to another location.


Ask Cuban. He's bought up a lot of land around there including where community is currently. My guess is he's planning for a future arena on that side of the highway once AAC is deemed "too old", or in Dallas terms any day now haha.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 13:52
by DPatel304
Makes sense. I figured that may have been the case, I just didn't know if Cuban also owned the building Community was in.

As for the AAC being too old, it looks like the Reunion Arena was demolished after 29 years and the AAC is currently 20 years old. That obviously doesn't mean the AAC will also be demolished after 29 years, but I just wanted to look up the lifespace of the Reunion Arena.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 15:03
by Tivo_Kenevil
MC_ScattCat wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:I'm also wondering what will happen to the Community Brewery space now that they are moving to another location.


Ask Cuban. He's bought up a lot of land around there including where community is currently. My guess is he's planning for a future arena on that side of the highway once AAC is deemed "too old", or in Dallas terms any day now haha.


Cuban wanted to build a new arena on top of high-rise. So fans could see the skyline while watching the game... See through walls i presume?
However, cuban owning the land is a bad thing. He's very Automobile oriented. And complains about the lack of parking at the AAC all the time despite dart being right f$&$ing next door.

He also owns land on the cedars and has done jack w/ it. So idk what his deal. Doesn't seem like developer type anyway

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 16:06
by THRILLHO
Are there any proposals for the remaining surface lot near the AAC?

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 16:07
by quixomniac
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
MC_ScattCat wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:I'm also wondering what will happen to the Community Brewery space now that they are moving to another location.


Ask Cuban. He's bought up a lot of land around there including where community is currently. My guess is he's planning for a future arena on that side of the highway once AAC is deemed "too old", or in Dallas terms any day now haha.


Cuban wanted to build a new arena on top of high-rise. So fans could see the skyline while watching the game... See through walls i presume?
However, cuban owning the land is a bad thing. He's very Automobile oriented. And complains about the lack of parking at the AAC all the time despite dart being right f$&$ing next door.

He also owns land on the cedars and has done jack w/ it. So idk what his deal. Doesn't seem like developer type anyway


Anyone got Cuban on speed dial? :D I'm very conflicted on this.
I think his problem with the current location is he doesnt own any of the surrounding properties.
So the owners are free to charge whatever they want on a whim. It's their piggy bank.
It's people outside of Dallas who still dont get it, park at a station and take the train!
Its cheaper than paying the ridiculous prices on gameday for parking.
Which only further encourages them to upcharge for special events.

On one hand...
A stadium high rise would be really cool to see, there are European stadiums with towers built in.
They can sell condos with guaranteed views of games every day for lots of $$$$.
Also a stadium by the river could help the design district. Or make it worse.
IF he insists on giant parking lots, it would kill Design district.

On the other hand, Part of what makes AAC so perfect, is the location, the ambiance.
On top of the championships won and Nowitzki way, it would suck if they moved it.
History builds loyalty and trust.

Then there is the 3rd option. He can build a temporary place nearby, while they tear down and replace the current arena for a new stadium with all the bells and whistles where AAC is. Unlike in football, the expected attendance for basketball games is the same, the footprint shouldnt change too much.

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 16:52
by Hannibal Lecter
quixomniac wrote:Anyone got Cuban on speed dial? :D


About 25 years ago my phone rang, and the caller ID showed "MARK CUBAN". Keep in mind that back then Caller ID spoofing wasn't nearly as big a thing as it is now. I answered, but to my disappointment it wasn't Mark. Instead it was someone I had business dealings with.

At the end of the call I just had to ask "By the way, I have a strange question for you...". By the way she said "Yes???" you could tell she knew what was coming. It turned out that her daughter was Cuban's then-fiancée (now wife), and she was calling from his house.

So the answer to your question is that I've got it around here somewhere.... :D

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 17:51
by dalbert
THRILLHO wrote:Are there any proposals for the remaining surface lot near the AAC?


https://www.victorycommonsone.com/wp-co ... ochV25.pdf

Slide 17 here shows tentative plans for Victory Commons Two and Three

Re: Victory Park 3.0

Posted: 29 Apr 2021 23:49
by undefinedprocess
Victory Commons Two & Three would be such a waste.