Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **31 Jan 2018 12:06**

I doubt they'll engage the street level experience until there's a nice hotel anchoring the development, but when it's time for that, Harwood will probably be the nicest street in this part of what used to be called Oak Lawn.

Posted: **08 Feb 2018 15:02**

Tucy wrote:Bleu Ciel has started selling units. Since some have asked for information on Bleu Ciel sales, here you go:

Sales appear to have kicked off on December 21 and by the end of the month of December, 2017, they had recorded 5 sales.

158 total units in the building. 5 down; 153 to go.

1 additional unit sold in January 2018. 6 down; 152 to go.

Posted: **09 Feb 2018 18:51**

I would have figured BC would be selling faster than that.

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 13:29**

Tnexster wrote:I would have figured BC would be selling faster than that.

Agreed.

1 unit sold in February 2018. 7 sold; 151 remaining.

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 13:32**

Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 14:07**

I'm sure my opinion has no impact on the building's sales, but I think Blue Ciel turned out awfully. I wouldn't buy a place there.

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 14:25**

muncien wrote:Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 16:37**

flyswatter wrote:
muncien wrote:Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

The numbers I am posting are for closed sales recorded with the county. That does not include pre-sales.

But think Muncien's question about pre-sales was not whether they were included in my numbers, but whether they did not have pre-sales in their pocket, so to speak. Typical condominium developments have pre-sales, often 50% or more before they start construction. When a building is completed, the pre-sales are converted to sales, which would typically be recorded in the first month or few months after the building is completed.

Posted: **06 Mar 2018 16:38**

Tucy wrote:
flyswatter wrote:
muncien wrote:Yikes! Werent there presales on this building? I thought they wanted to reach a certain threshold before they even began construction?

Maybe they don't include presales? Don't know how it all works but maybe they do not consider it sold until the unit has been finished out and the keys are handed over to the owner?

The numbers I am posting are for closed sales recorded with the county. That does not include pre-sales.

But I think Muncien's question about pre-sales was not whether they were included in my numbers, but whether the developers did not have pre-sales in their pocket, so to speak. Typical condominium developments have pre-sales, often 50% or more, before they start construction. When a building is completed, the pre-sales are converted to sales, which would typically be recorded in the first month or few months after the building is completed.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018 10:03**

Nothing sold in March 2018. 7 sold; 151 remaining.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018 11:42**

At least Museum tower is beautiful. This building for me is a huge let down. The very top of that thing looks horrific. Still glad it got built but could and should have looked much better.

Posted: **05 Apr 2018 12:02**

Are these on the MLS? I don't see listings on any of the popular real estate websites. I know it's not a requirement to sell units, but it can't hurt. It would increase the visibility to both buyers and realtors.

Also, the building is not done and looks like the upper floors are still being finished out. Maybe the developers are waiting until construction ends before they make a big sales push?

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 02:12**

Hopefully the building's facade lighting at night improves because right now it's disappointing.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 06:07**

Cbdallas wrote:At least Museum tower is beautiful. This building for me is a huge let down. The very top of that thing looks horrific. Still glad it got built but could and should have looked much better.

I think I've only seen the building from behind (west facing side), but it's really unattractive. It actually still looks unfinished to me.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 07:41**

I walked around the property a couple of weeks ago. There is still a lot of work to be done. There are several large construction trucks, cement trucks, and workers all over the place. It's pretty dusty and dirty at ground level. I certainly would not want to live there now anyway. I also noticed this building is not connected to the Katy Trail. There is a parking lot in between owned by KERA. Does anyone know if there are plans to connect to the KT?

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 08:16**

^Isn't there supposed to be a bike shop occupying one of the retail suites of the building, reinforced by a connection to the Katy Trail? Maybe that'll come later...? also, wasn't there supposed to be some variation of a neighborhood grocery store?

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 08:32**

tamtagon wrote:^Isn't there supposed to be a bike shop occupying one of the retail suites of the building, reinforced by a connection to the Katy Trail? Maybe that'll come later...? also, wasn't there supposed to be some variation of a neighborhood grocery store?

The bike shop is going into The Katy the residential tower in Victory Park. It will be another location of Richardson Bike Mart. Yes, originally they were talking about a "grocery store" of some sort. I imagine they didn't have a lease just were conceptualizing something that may have not panned out.

Posted: **06 Apr 2018 08:43**

Harwood will eventually add a hotel to the mix, that's when much of the retail becomes activated, I would imagine.

Posted: **01 May 2018 19:19**

This is the first time I've seen a Bleu Ciel unit on MLS with actual pictures, if anyone is curious about taking a look:
https://www.redfin.com/TX/Dallas/3130-N ... /143965501

Posted: **01 May 2018 21:19**

Nice find, DPatel, although cringeworthy also, of course.*

I guess it's still weird to me because D Magazine was talking price hikes on these units three years ago: https://candysdirt.com/2015/04/23/price ... bleu-ciel/
Maybe zero of those deposits eventuated into real live pre-sales after all, but I still don't altogether understand.

* When there's a building u/c overlooking Central Park whose core is over 300 meters tall now, whose penthouse will be (per CTBUH) over 180 feet above the highest occupied floor of Freedom Tower, with a seven-floor Nordstrom's in the base, and whose projected residential sales target is well over four billion dollars, then you've got to think twice about the listing's current boast that "Bleu Ciel is poised to become the most coveted condominium development in the nation." I wouldn't be surprised if they remove it from the spiel soon, but for the time being, it's some pretty oblivious, Center-of-the-universe-is-Dallas, big haired hype.

Posted: **03 May 2018 13:10**

I45Tex wrote:Nice find, DPatel, although cringeworthy also, of course.*

I guess it's still weird to me because D Magazine was talking price hikes on these units three years ago: https://candysdirt.com/2015/04/23/price ... bleu-ciel/
Maybe zero of those deposits eventuated into real live pre-sales after all, but I still don't altogether understand.

* When there's a building u/c overlooking Central Park whose core is over 300 meters tall now, whose penthouse will be (per CTBUH) over 180 feet above the highest occupied floor of Freedom Tower, with a seven-floor Nordstrom's in the base, and whose projected residential sales target is well over four billion dollars, then you've got to think twice about the listing's current boast that "Bleu Ciel is poised to become the most coveted condominium development in the nation." I wouldn't be surprised if they remove it from the spiel soon, but for the time being, it's some pretty oblivious, Center-of-the-universe-is-Dallas, big haired hype.

That was a "Candy's Dirt" link, not D Magazine. Nothing more than a marketing puff piece. Often developers offer special pricing in the pre-construction phase. It's part of what gets them their financing. That's why, in spite of her puffing it up to make it seem like spectacular news, this piece was non-news when she published it even if, on some level, there was some truth to it. It's useful to note that in the article it says the smallest units on lower levels were raised from $509 to $586/square foot. Unit 604 is currently offered at 488.81/sq ft.

Posted: **07 May 2018 05:20**

April 2018

4 units sold. 11 sold in 5 months. 147 remaining.

Posted: **07 May 2018 20:17**

Seems like a faster pace than Museum.

Posted: **26 May 2018 13:37**

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

Posted: **28 May 2018 03:19**

It looks.... unfinished. All I can see is exposed concrete and glass...

Posted: **12 Jun 2018 15:12**

May 2018

5 units sold. 16 sold in 6 months. 142 remaining.

Posted: **05 Jul 2018 13:49**

June 2018

3 units sold. 19 sold in 7 months. 139 remaining.

Posted: **05 Jul 2018 22:01**

The sales pace is certainly better on this tower.

Posted: **01 Aug 2018 15:34**

July 2018

5 units sold. 24 sold in 8 months. 134 remaining.

Posted: **19 Sep 2018 14:18**

August 2018

1 unit sold. 25 sold in 9 months. 133 remaining.

Posted: **19 Sep 2018 15:01**

Tucy wrote:August 2018

1 unit sold. 25 sold in 9 moths. 133 remaining.

I bet its eerie quiet in them hallways. Lol

Posted: **09 Oct 2018 12:10**

September 2018

1 unit sold. 26 sold in 10 months. 132 remaining.

Posted: **09 Oct 2018 18:20**

Speaking of this building, check out the downward views from the cantilevered pools (without water).

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bofcp3pn04V ... by=jihance (scroll)

Posted: **09 Oct 2018 19:42**

^^ Jihane has since made her IG private hahaha

Posted: **15 Nov 2018 15:18**

October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

Posted: **15 Nov 2018 15:31**

Tucy wrote:October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Posted: **15 Nov 2018 15:53**

Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

Posted: **15 Nov 2018 16:21**

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

Thanks

Posted: **18 Nov 2018 19:59**

Tucy wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Tucy wrote:October 2018

5 units sold. 31 sold in 11 months. 127 remaining.

So at this rate? Are you going to do your sellout estimation?

Wasn't really planning on it, because I don't have developer sell-out projections to measure against (or the amateur projections made by forum members). But I'm happy to run the math: Right now, the projection would be 4 years, 9 months.

I was going to say, five years sounds about right. If Harwood Dallas recruits some big office tenants and kicks into higher gear with bigger office buildings, this would likely sell faster.

Posted: **07 Dec 2018 00:15**

November 2018

2 units sold. 33 sold in 12 months. 125 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

Posted: **09 Jan 2019 14:39**

December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

Posted: **09 Jan 2019 17:07**

Tucy wrote:December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

In your opinion, How good is the selling rate? I don't know how Dallas compares to other city centers where this type of product is usually sold. I'd be interested to see if we get more of these Ivory tower projects in Dallas.

Posted: **09 Jan 2019 18:37**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:December 2018

3 units sold. 36 sold in 13 months (2.77 per month) 122 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 10 months

In your opinion, How good is the selling rate? I don't know how Dallas compares to other city centers where this type of product is usually sold. I'd be interested to see if we get more of these Ivory tower projects in Dallas.

Well, it's selling at a considerably faster rate than Museum Tower ever did, so there's that. But I'm surprised at how slow it's going. The other relatively recent building (Stoneleigh) hasn't exactly been selling like hot cakes either.

Typically, successful projects will close on a bunch of units in the first couple months after opening. I know of one project, for example, that closed on more than 40 units (in a 99 unit building) in the first 62 days. High-rise living seems to still be a bit of a hard sell in Dallas.

Posted: **09 Jan 2019 23:50**

Does anyone know whatever happened to the grocer that they were going to put in this building?

Posted: **10 Jan 2019 11:22**

I wonder how any of these condo towers would sell if they were built in good locations. Their placement has been bizzare. This is between a highway offramp and a public housing project, surrounded by scarred empty lots and no connection to the nearby Katy Trail. How much faster would this be selling if it was built on McKinney Avenue in Uptown? Or up the Katy Trail? Why are no condos being built in high appeal areas?

Posted: **10 Jan 2019 12:08**

dzh wrote:Does anyone know whatever happened to the grocer that they were going to put in this building?

Good question. Their website still promotes it as a building amenity:

"GOURMET GROCERY MARKET WITH RESIDENT DELIVERY SERVICES
The only one of its kind. Residents will have peace of mind and convenience with gourmet grocery store delivery services to their residence."

They also promote:

"STREET LEVEL EUROPEAN MARKET, JUICE BAR, AND BIKE SHOP
Residents will have immediate access to a blend of fare, health, and fitness at the street level."

Does anyone know if any of that has materialized?

Posted: **21 Mar 2019 14:56**

January 2019

8 units sold. 44 sold in 14 months (3.14 per month) 114 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 3 months

Posted: **21 Mar 2019 15:03**

February 2019

3 units sold. 47 sold in 15 months (3.13 per month) 111 remaining.
Sell-out projection: 4 years, 3 months

Posted: **21 Mar 2019 15:14**

Tucy wrote:January 2019

8 units sold. 44 sold in 14 months (3.14 per month) 114 remaining.

Sell-out projection: 4 years, 3 months

Wow, 8 sold in one month ain't bad!

Posted: **21 Mar 2019 21:24**

They seem to be clipping along at a decent pace. Maybe the price is about right.

Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Harwood District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)

Re: Harwood Int'l District: Bleu Ciel (390 FT / 33 ST)