Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/09/28/valley-view-mall-supposed-gone-now-remains-zombieland

Sounds like this one is back on hold for the foreseeable future. I thought it was odd that demolition of the garage stopped just a week or two after the "groundbreaking" ceremony. Does anyone happen to know if the tenants have been kicked out of what's left of the mall?

I read that article this morning. Its a very big slap in the face and will scare Amazon away from their proposal. Amazon probably won't want to get involved in whatever is holding things up. Sounds like Beck was just too slow on getting their stuff in motion and the deadlines stayed exactly where they were. We have seen developers run back to the city in the past and always get deadlines moved but it sounds like everyone got frustrated and refused to work together.

This is why these mega projects are so hard. It requires a lot of moving parts and people who can chase down things when they come up or when balls get dropped by someone else. It is why companies like KDC are so well run. That company has organized multiple huge building projects all over DFW within just the last 5 years so I would bet on any Amazon proposal KDC is a part of.

Beck may lose out on this one and this will become one of those it could have been great. If they don't get things back on track it will probably just get divided up and sold in pieces without as tight of a vision. Like what happened when Victory Park fell apart and Hillwood just started selling off the property without the vision.

Not sure if this is part of the Midtown development or not but it is next to the Dallas Galleria in the immediate area.


PegasusAblon has a $51M mixed-use property planned at 13675 Noel Road, next to the Galleria.

$51M Project From Pegasus Ablon Planned Next To The Galleria
by Jeremiah Jensen, November 29, 2017 Bisnow Dallas

The company filed 17 building permits on Nov. 15, and according to Buildzoom.com, it is building six stories of retail and multifamily space as well as multilevel parking and a roof deck valued at $433K.

Jared White, presumably of GFF Architects, is the applicant listed on the permits, and the contractor listed is Andres Construction Services.

Andres Construction Services and PegasusAblon declined to comment on the development, so as of yet, its timeline is unknown, and no renderings were available.

Article: https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/news/construction-development/51m-project-from-pegasus-ablon-planned-next-to-the-galleria-82040?be=dallasdecodence%40aol.com&utm_source=Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=wed-29-nov-2017-000000-0500_dallas-fort-worth-re

According to Google Maps, this location (13675 Noel Road) is north of The Galleria, is mostly already developed with a parking garage, Toy R Us, Dicks Sporting Goods, a parking lot, and a multi-story office looking buildings, and strip mall with a Starbucks across from The Galleria. It is across Alpha Road, which is a multi-lane collector so there won't be much connectivity to Midtown.
If I had to guess, if they are building anything, it would be on the empty lot right next to the office building at 13675 Noel Road.


Not sure why they'd use a stock photo of The Galleria instead of the actual building at the address. This would not be considered part of Midtown, which is to the east of The Galleria. But close enough for the thread.

Just adds to the continuing density the area is seeing. There seems to be some solid action from developers around the Galleria despite Midtown's slow progress. Many open sites are being swooped up for multi-family with ground floor retail spaces so I am certainly not complaining.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Just adds to the continuing density the area is seeing. There seems to be some solid action from developers around the Galleria despite Midtown's slow progress. Many open sites are being swooped up for multi-family with ground floor retail spaces so I am certainly not complaining.

That's definitely a good kind of unusual. Generally you wouldn't see action on adjacent plots of land until the initial development has completed and see some sort of success.

Midtown is different than a lot of the other suburban/urban areas, though, as it's in a very good location, so I think people realize its potential.

Becks are in way, way, way over their heads. The need to sell or give this over to a partner.

AC Hotel and Modera near the Galleria from Friday


A.C. Hotel Galleria by Thymant, on Flickr


Modera near the Galleria/ A.C. Hotel by Thymant, on Flickr

The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.

It's too bad it could fail hard if they cant get the mall torn down and move forward. I don't think this hotel would be able to hold out for a generation like the W Hotel did when Victory Park tripped and fell the first time.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:It's too bad it could fail hard if they cant get the mall torn down and move forward. I don't think this hotel would be able to hold out for a generation like the W Hotel did when Victory Park tripped and fell the first time.

I think it will do just fine, it's right next to the galleria, other hotels, offices, and tons and businesses that already exist. This development is not hinged on midtown's masterplan completion and I'm sure that the developers were well aware that it could take many years for things to come together.

NdoorTX wrote:The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.

I agree. Too bad the Modera apartments look like crap! What a bland design. Looks like an accountant drew a design on a paper napkin and handed it off to the builders. Shame.

Matt777 wrote:

NdoorTX wrote:The AC looks great! Love that quasi Mid Century facade.

I agree. Too bad the Modera apartments look like crap! What a bland design. Looks like an accountant drew a design on a paper napkin and handed it off to the builders. Shame.

Seems like Modera has actually had some cool designs in other cities. It's a shame how much of these apartments have gone up in Dallas the last few years.

The_Overdog wrote:According to Google Maps, this location (13675 Noel Road) is north of The Galleria, is mostly already developed with a parking garage, Toy R Us, Dicks Sporting Goods, a parking lot, and a multi-story office looking buildings, and strip mall with a Starbucks across from The Galleria. It is across Alpha Road, which is a multi-lane collector so there won't be much connectivity to Midtown.
If I had to guess, if they are building anything, it would be on the empty lot right next to the office building at 13675 Noel Road.


Not sure why they'd use a stock photo of The Galleria instead of the actual building at the address. This would not be considered part of Midtown, which is to the east of The Galleria. But close enough for the thread.

I had posted a rendering a while back about a mixed use development for this exact piece of land. Not sure I can dig it up again. It was some time ago, so the architect may have changed, but it certainly matches the description provided. I'll see what I can find.

With all the angst and frustration over The Cotton Belt, all the potential for Galleria-Midtown, and the Plano/Frisco employment center & traffic growth, it's almost surprising there's no official talk (outside the forum) about a passenger train route from the $5 Billion Mile-Legacy-Addison Airport@Cotton Belt-Galleria-Midtown Dallas-Medical City-Forest Lane Red/Blue.

I haven't heard anything about the Lifetime project anymore. Is this still happening or has this been killed?

Thank goodness KDC has gotten on this bandwagon. Now I feel like this will take off!

High-rise mixed-use project will replace old Sears store at Dallas' Valley View
Steve Brown, Real Estate Editor


A New York real estate investor is teaming up with Dallas developer KDC to build up to 1 million square feet of office space as part of a mixed-use project in Far North Dallas.
The planned development by Seritage Growth Properties and KDC is part of the 430-acre Dallas Midtown district along the north side of LBJ Freeway.
The 23-acre development will include two office towers, retail, a cinema and more on the site of the closed Sears store at the old Valley View mall.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... alley-view

Is this part of the property that the Becks own, or is the site owned by Sears? The article does not say whether the partners purchased the site of if the landowner is part of the deal. What I am trying to figure out is whether the Becks and their plans are still in the mix, or have they been bought out.

So referring back to images I saved from a previous DMN article, this does not appear to acreage tied to Beck's holdings. It's the area already owned by Seritage- now in partnership with KDC. Hopefully this spurs Beck.

I believe this is the corner of Preston and 635 marked as a future phase on the Beck Midtown development proposals. Beck doesn't own it but if the land is as valuable as people keep saying it is this is just a good reminder of why consolidating into one single developer is bad and have a few large chunks broken off like this is good news.

I'm curious what this means for the demolition of the rest of the mall. The last I recall reading (and what I see everyday driving by) is that demolition has halted on the mall.

Would they simply knock off the Sears piece and leave gaping holes on two sides of Valley View?

I'm ignorant and don't live in Dallas anymore, but can someone explain the reasoning in delaying the demo of the entire mall. Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?

ContriveDallasite wrote:I'm ignorant and don't live in Dallas anymore, but can someone explain the reasoning in delaying the demo of the entire mall. Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?

I think it's historic.

Isn't it cheaper to front the demolition costs than to cover the property taxes of the mall until a 1/1,000 deal gets inked?

According to DCAD of the property taxes for the property at 13331 Preston Road with a description of Valley View Shopping Center and a size of 2.29 acres, the answer is actually "no". The appraised value is $1.9m, taxes are $55k, and demo would probably cost more than that.

DCAD:
http://www.dallascad.org/AcctDetailCom. ... 1077500000
Tax Document:
http://www.dallascad.org/SPLITPDF/00000 ... 000000.PDF

In fact, completing the demolition might raise the appraised value and thus increase the taxes.

Tucy wrote:In fact, completing the demolition might raise the appraised value and thus increase the taxes.

Contradictory logic But thanks for the insight!

Contradictory logic But thanks for the insight!

The value of the Valley View mall building is $0 according to DCAD, and probably only because it can't be a negative value. Yeah, $0 improvement value for a huge mostly functional building. Commercial property assessment is totally fair I tell you.

Assessing and managing assessments in such a way, and it appears to be the standard operating procedure, is harmful to a growing city. Complicated because so many hands try to hold the wheel and drive, but the neighborhoods hosting situations like this suffer through the directionless course.

The_Overdog wrote:

Contradictory logic But thanks for the insight!

The value of the Valley View mall building is $0 according to DCAD, and probably only because it can't be a negative value. Yeah, $0 improvement value for a huge mostly functional building. Commercial property assessment is totally fair I tell you.

It is completely fair, at least in this case. The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.

The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.

I completely agree that the land is worth more than the building, but those are separate categories on the assessment, and the assessment doesn't make any assumptions or recommendations about the highest or best use for the land. Also my own property, older than Valley View Mall, is not valued at $0 for the structure nor is the empty Wal-Mart down the street, even though the land the empty-for-15-years Wal-Mart is on is valued at more (way more) than the land under Valley View mall.

That is the unfair part.

Just out of curiosity, are there any penalties that are assessed to property owners for leaving half-demolished carcasses of buildings sitting on the side of the road?

The_Overdog wrote:

The assessment merely reflects the reality that the land is worth more without the (functionally obsolete) building than it is with it.

I completely agree that the land is worth more than the building, but those are separate categories on the assessment, and the assessment doesn't make any assumptions or recommendations about the highest or best use for the land. Also my own property, older than Valley View Mall, is not valued at $0 for the structure nor is the empty Wal-Mart down the street, even though the land the empty-for-15-years Wal-Mart is on is valued at more (way more) than the land under Valley View mall.

That is the unfair part.

It's not just that the land is worth more than the building; the building adds zero value to the property (and likely detracts from the value, but the appraisers don't show negative values).
The assessment evaluates market price. That implicitly takes into account highest and best use. I know the land and improvements are separate categories. So what? The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.

The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.

Valley View is not empty, it may be functionally obsolete but it is still open and sales are still occurring there. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... /#image-51

Therefore it's current value as retail is not zero and the fact that they *plan to demolish it* is totally irrelevant.

Just out of curiosity, are there any penalties that are assessed to property owners for leaving half-demolished carcasses of buildings sitting on the side of the road?

Any penalties would be assessed by code enforcement.

The_Overdog wrote:

The zero appraisal on the improvements tells us the improvements are functionally obsolete. And the fact that the owners plan to demolish all of the buildings strongly suggests the appraisal is correct on that point. Still not sure what exactly is the unfair part about any of that.

Valley View is not empty, it may be functionally obsolete but it is still open and sales are still occurring there. https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... /#image-51

Therefore it's current value as retail is not zero and the fact that they *plan to demolish it* is totally irrelevant.

You have still shown us nothing that is unfair about the appraisal system or this appraisal. It seems you don't understand how appraisals are done.

The fact that Valley View is not completely empty tells us nothing. There are countless buildings all over the metroplex, state and country, including houses, that generate some rental income, but add nothing to the market value of the property. That is the situation here. The total value of the property is what it is. That value has to be allocated between the land and the improvements. It has to be allocated to the land first. It would make no sense to do the appraisals any other way. If the total property value is equal to the value of comparable vacant land, would you propose that they allocate a smaller amount to the land so that some amount could be added to the improvements? Consider the result: If then the improvements were demolished, you'd be left with land that has an appraised value lower than its market value. THAT would be an unfair system.

The fact that they plan to demolish the improvements is not dispositive, but it is hardly irrelevant to our discussion. It is direct and rather strong evidence that the appraisers evaluation of zero market value for the improvements is spot on.

Back in the '80s I handled some bank REO assets in west Texas that had negative appraised values. You would have to spend money on environment remediation and/or demolition before you could even give the property away for free.

I recall once getting a call from the Fire Chief in Floydada, texas to to let me know that an old gas station we handled had burned down. He half-joked that it property increased the value of the property.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:Back in the '80s I handled some bank REO assets in west Texas that had negative appraised values. You would have to spend money on environment remediation and/or demolition before you could even give the property away for free.

I recall once getting a call from the Fire Chief in Floydada, texas to to let me know that an old gas station we handled had burned down. He half-joked that it property increased the value of the property.

One time I toured a meat packing plant in Floydada.

Tnexster wrote:Valley View Center — and the plan to revive the area — is in shambles

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... e-shambles

So sad to watch. The Beck's need to sell to someone who has the ability to execute. They have shown they are inept to pull this one off.

Brettoj wrote:

Tnexster wrote:Valley View Center — and the plan to revive the area — is in shambles

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... e-shambles

So sad to watch. The Beck's need to sell to someone who has the ability to execute. They have shown they are inept to pull this one off.

Agree. It seems like Beck's portion of land he actually controls is smaller and smaller than I initially thought, yet he seems to wield the ability of willing developers to actually get anything done. I can't believe they held a groundbreaking a couple months ago, what a boondoggle.

I wonder if this is going to be another midrise or if they are going to go for a highrise at this site.

Considering Mill Creek's track record in Dallas so far, it will be a midrise that they will sell within 1 year of completion:

Avenue H -> Bell Knox District
Modera Uptown -> Uptown @ Cole Park

Another article about "that giant code violation sitting at LBJ Freeway and Preston Road called Valley View Center":

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... believable

Tucy wrote:Another article about "that giant code violation sitting at LBJ Freeway and Preston Road called Valley View Center":

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... believable

It is almost humorous it is so sad. Beck lost the 36 million TIF funds and is now asking for 50 million. I sure hope the city thinks twice about this character who has over promised hasn't delivered.

As much as I would love to see this project get going ( I work across the street) I think maybe a delay is ok if we continue to see the absorption downtown and around it of more apartments and offices so it can max out and define itself as the urban center of Dallas. If this one takes another 5 years maybe it can secure a large office tenant or a few and then kick off and redevelop all the way from Galleria to Preston and north to Spring Valley.

Cbdallas wrote:As much as I would love to see this project get going ( I work across the street) I think maybe a delay is ok if we continue to see the absorption downtown and around it of more apartments and offices so it can max out and define itself as the urban center of Dallas. If this one takes another 5 years maybe it can secure a large office tenant or a few and then kick off and redevelop all the way from Galleria to Preston and north to Spring Valley.

I work pretty close by as well. I'd be ok waiting for the development to happen, but would really like to at least see the rest of the mall torn down.

It's too bad, because the new AC hotel a couple blocks over is starting to look really nice. Imagine pulling up for a stay and you spot the gaping, detonated hole of the former Sanger Harris staring at you.

I see that from my office window every day. I would rather see this all as open land fenced off.

I don't know what the use allocation is for the master plan of this development, but I had the impression that it was slanted too heavily toward office space. I may be off on that, but IMO, they should go heavier on residential. As with any other area... the jobs will follow the people, and the people will provide stability for retail.
If that means a few midrise apartment complexes go in first, than so be it... Just build them to support future retail on the ground floor.