North Dallas: Midtown

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 28 Nov 2020 04:09

Definitely have to give this developer credit where it's due. They're really good at puff pieces.

I know the article back in June made it seem like a lot is going on with this project, but I drive pass it on a semi-regular basis and I'm not noticing any activity on the site.

I will admit, at least a tiny part of the reason I settled on Addison when moving here was because of how close it would be to this site when it really starts getting built out. So it's a bit disappointing this thing doesn't seem to be really progressing.

The renderings and site plans are impressive and it could be a much bigger deal than Legacy when it's done (provided the master plan comes to fruition). It may even give an opening for Bloomingdales or Saks to re-enter the DFW market with full-line stores.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Nov 2020 12:58

This development will not come to fruition as originally planned. It will be a vestige of the original plans. This pandemic isn't helping either. However, I would have expected more residential and infrastructure at least be put in place. But very little has occurred. Perhaps the developer should just sell.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 28 Nov 2020 13:38

Well the Heritage Park section where the Sears was located has a live construction webcam on KDC's website which seems odd if they weren't moving on at least that small corner. I know the rest of the former Mall land is a another developer but I wonder if the Heritage Park which is a smaller section is having any luck.
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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 28 Nov 2020 13:52

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:This development will not come to fruition as originally planned. It will be a vestige of the original plans. This pandemic isn't helping either. However, I would have expected more residential and infrastructure at least be put in place. But very little has occurred. Perhaps the developer should just sell.


I get the pandemic doesn't help, but then I look at Cypress Waters in Coppell which seems to be moving full steam ahead despite COVID headwinds.

It seems the main issue with this project is the developer, not the concept itself or even the economy.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 28 Nov 2020 15:34

That's an entirely different type of project. It's less urban and more office Park. Mid town is more complex just because of the location itself.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby rono3849 » 28 Nov 2020 16:00

I live not far from the site and I can tell you that the Heritage Park site has been abandoned. It is a big pile of dirt where the old Sears store was. Nothing is going on on-site. This is a huge boondoggle that will sit there for quite awhile. The section 8 apartments just north of the site don't help matters when looking at building a dynamic new development either. I suspect they've run out of money.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 30 Nov 2020 13:05

rono3849 wrote:I live not far from the site and I can tell you that the Heritage Park site has been abandoned. It is a big pile of dirt where the old Sears store was. Nothing is going on on-site. This is a huge boondoggle that will sit there for quite awhile. The section 8 apartments just north of the site don't help matters when looking at building a dynamic new development either. I suspect they've run out of money.


Still fascinates me that this is a TIF project that includes RedBird in south Dallas which is full steam ahead while this sits there. I'm not sure I would have guesses that outcome. RedBird is coming along so well the developer is actually talking about adding additional office towers on the site.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 30 Nov 2020 13:56

I've lost pretty much all confidence (which was very little to begin with) in this project coming to fruition as the original renders had shown. I hope KDC can at least do their Park Heritage portion of Midtown, but damn, I would love to see this thing built all the way. Would be really cool to see from 635 or DNT.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 30 Nov 2020 14:29

Yeah, the delays on this one substantially pre-date COVID. It took forever just to get to the point where they are today, and I do not anticipate anything approaching the original renderings to appear for another 5 years or more. It is interesting, as there are developments within a 2 mile radius that seem to be doing just fine.

Heck, I'll be the Galleria redo gets done before you see a single building completed on the Midtown site (note: "building" does not include a contractor's shed lol)

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 30 Nov 2020 15:16

exelone31 wrote:Yeah, the delays on this one substantially pre-date COVID. It took forever just to get to the point where they are today, and I do not anticipate anything approaching the original renderings to appear for another 5 years or more. It is interesting, as there are developments within a 2 mile radius that seem to be doing just fine.

Heck, I'll be the Galleria redo gets done before you see a single building completed on the Midtown site (note: "building" does not include a contractor's shed lol)


Can you refresh my foggy mind on the developments within a 2 mile radius from Midtown? Can't remember what they are at the moment

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby exelone31 » 01 Dec 2020 10:37

undefinedprocess wrote:
exelone31 wrote:Yeah, the delays on this one substantially pre-date COVID. It took forever just to get to the point where they are today, and I do not anticipate anything approaching the original renderings to appear for another 5 years or more. It is interesting, as there are developments within a 2 mile radius that seem to be doing just fine.

Heck, I'll be the Galleria redo gets done before you see a single building completed on the Midtown site (note: "building" does not include a contractor's shed lol)


Can you refresh my foggy mind on the developments within a 2 mile radius from Midtown? Can't remember what they are at the moment


There's re-development going on at Alpha and Inwood, which I believe is intended to be a sort of "gateway" to Farmers Branch type of development.

There's also mixed-use going in at Alpha and Noel (NW corner), though I'm a bit confused on whether or not they are going to tear down the Starbucks/Z Gallerie strip as part of that to open it to the intersection.

Developments are ongoing at Noel and 635, where they've already added a couple apartment complexes and a hotel.

Then there's the Galleria renovation, which is supposed to convert it into more of an indoor/outdoor mall from what I gather.

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tamtagon
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 01 Dec 2020 14:04

Amazon keeps adding to the workforce they have at the Galleria, too. Maybe that'll be the one that helps Midtown gain some traction.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby rono3849 » 01 Dec 2020 18:11

tamtagon wrote:Amazon keeps adding to the workforce they have at the Galleria, too. Maybe that'll be the one that helps Midtown gain some traction.


There are plans to expand by adding both high-rise condominiums & office space to the Galleria, as retail will continue to contract in the coming years. Nordstrom & Macy's still have a solid footing in the mall. Belk's was a mistake, but eventually a third anchor will return. Then the new additions & subtractions will follow. First, the COVID-19 pandemic will have to be in the rear view mirror before the real changes happen.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby ajderry2017 » 07 Dec 2020 23:03

Sorry. I didn’t know what thread this could go under. But maybe this is a reason why so many projects have delays? Could someone educate me on this?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby zblevinz555 » 12 Dec 2020 03:19

https://www.omniplan.com/work/case-stud ... dtown.html

Sorry if this has already been posted but this video is pretty cool.

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tamtagon
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 12 Dec 2020 07:47

It'll be interesting to learn over time what unknown flaws in design come out of such huge, complicated suburban redevelopment plans like this and the Collin Creek Mall redo. Using a park as the glue of cohesiveness to the variety of mixed and single use construction of residential, retail, commercial and office space is the dominant thinking nowadays, but something is bound to be left unconsidered.

Victory Park was mostly from scratch and had significant municipal financial backing, changed ownership due to economic recession and widespread collapse, but the what appeared to be a solid masterplan at the inception showed flaws in practicality and usability. We're still seeing the work-arounds being built into the brownfield redevelopment as Victory Park eases into it's roll as the newest contiguous expansion of Downtown.

Midtown is taking the same wayward path to maturity as the entire suburban environment tethered to the inception of the I-635 bypass loop.... In the 70s/80s, no one could know what would happen to suburban America. The purpose of LBJ, first built as a cross-country time saving way around the city, has taken on so many new functions, TxDOT is learning (maybe has finally learned) that the needs of this transportation corridor cannot be fully satisfied by expensive roadways that force users to buy expensive personal modes of transportation.

Maybe looking back to the initial vision of an enclosed suburban shopping center will answer some of the future complications so esoteric contemporary visionaries really cannot map.

https://msourceideas.com/the-origin-sto ... ping-mall/

Why the Original Mall made Sense
The problem, from a business optimization viewpoint, was these pre-mall downtown shopping areas were unplanned. Besides the fact that they were outside, making the weather a hindrance to shopping, the layout couldn’t be fully controlled since the buildings were owned by different landlords. There was no central control of leasing—you couldn’t create adjacencies to maximize sales. For example, having a men’s shoe store next to a men’s clothing store or a jewelry store next to a dress shop would stimulate additional sales by attracting the same type of customer.

Gruen’s centrally planned enclosed shopping mall solved all these issues by having a single landlord who could organize and lease the entire mall to optimize the shopping experience. But these malls were intended to positively impact the surrounding community and be integrated into the community. That meant that they weren’t just intended to house stores, but would also include housing, schools, museums and parks.

What happened instead, to Gruen’s later disapproval, was the endless replication of his enclosed mall design that, instead of being parts of larger thoughtful developments, were simply thrown up into the middle of former farmland on the edges of suburbs where land was the cheapest.

Worse yet, because shoppers had to drive to get there, malls were surrounded by acres of unattractive parking lots instead of being integrated into a larger holistic community. Nothing could have been farther from what Gruen envisioned when he designed that first indoor mall.


There has to be a partnership between The Galleria and Midtown. A climate controlled public transportation link between Addison Airport Silver Line station to Galleria-Midtown to Love Field Station holds one of the keys to reinventing this zenith stretch of suburban development.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby deweast » 12 Dec 2020 09:46

I agree with your basic premise. I do not think an above ground, conventional “transportation line” is practical from a right of way, disruptive construction concerns, as well as lack of options as to how the system is configured. A Boring Company project that would allow a variety of specialized autonomous vehicles to operate away from the heat, ice, wind etc., thus serving the various needs of the users. Perhaps after arriving at Addison Airport with luggage you summoned a vehicle that was designed for excess “cargo” (read luggage), or a vehicle designed for wheelchair bound or other handicapped passengers. The flexibility of having an individual “car” that could move at speed from station one to station twelve without stopping, while also serving station one to station three with another “load” would very flexible and desirable. These new “subways” are coming. Watch for one in a progressive city near you....

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 12 Dec 2020 11:51

It might be painful to some car drivers for a couple years, but here's my favorite: converting part of the roadway to dedicated public transportation (light rail, BRT, streetcar whatever) coupled with complete streets pedestrian environment make over from the Addison Silver Line station along Inwood road to Galleria Road, through the mall to James Temple Drive to Preston Road then south to Northwest Highway where this express public transportation service circles east to NorthPark Center and the Park Lane Station and west to Lemmon Ave/Love Field Terminal.

Preston @ Forest, Preston @ Royal, Preston @ NWHighway already host commercial properties, but the spine of express travel allows these out of date suburban strip center mutations to become the pockets of super high density development taking care first of the pedestrian environment. It could totally happen.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby deweast » 12 Dec 2020 14:30

The challenge with that is the need for the passenger to be constricted by the schedule of the (light rail, BRT, streetcar whatever). You are waiting, in the weather, for one of the above, and that wait can be quite disagreeable. Below ground with an on demand carrier is the future.

Scheduled (light rail, BRT, streetcar whatever) cannot compete with on demand, and once the efficiency of a dedicated underground is realized, the versatility of a multi functional, “untracked”, mobile module, moving at high speeds because of the automated system support solves many of the current day obstacles. It won’t be your f fathers tram, train, bus, or streetcar.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby The_Overdog » 13 Dec 2020 05:35

On-demand transportation so far has not been particularly successful at scale as replacement for public transport. There is no way underground on-demand transportation that you describe would ever work at even moderate passenger volume without basically recreating a wide highway underground.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby THRILLHO » 14 Dec 2020 12:10

Look at any of the world's successful public transportation systems and not one of them would be better served with an on-demand network of individual vehicles. DFW will only become more dense, and planning for that density with anything other than frequent train/street-car/bus service is just messing about. In a future that will demand less waste, individual on-demand transportation won't take hold over high capacity vehicles.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby rono3849 » 14 Dec 2020 15:48

This entire project is shut down. They have no workers on site & there hasn't been any work done there in weeks, if not months. My guess is they have run out of money.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 15 Dec 2020 09:33

Is anything going on in Midtown at the moment? This project has been so disappointing.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Ace » 15 Dec 2020 15:46

Figure two large companies relocating to this development would work to fill it up. Potential for that happening during this time of political crisis is through the roof right now. Locating next to the existing Galleria Dallas is a huge plus. I also see increased potential for the now defunct five billion dollar mile north in Frisco.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 16 Dec 2020 14:08

Ace wrote:Figure two large companies relocating to this development would work to fill it up. Potential for that happening during this time of political crisis is through the roof right now. Locating next to the existing Galleria Dallas is a huge plus. I also see increased potential for the now defunct five billion dollar mile north in Frisco.


Could definitely happen, but I (sadly) feel that it's more likely for a large company to move into an existing space rather than having to wait/pick this broken project up off of the ground. :/

Look at Keurig/Dr. Pepper's "old" HQ in Plano. There's that, as well as the old JCPenney HQ, and that's just in the Collin County burbs. But I hope I'm wrong. I hope we get this increase in density, especially with this project (and somehow, by a literal miracle, it comes to fruition).

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 18 Dec 2020 10:58

Ace wrote:Figure two large companies relocating to this development would work to fill it up. Potential for that happening during this time of political crisis is through the roof right now. Locating next to the existing Galleria Dallas is a huge plus. I also see increased potential for the now defunct five billion dollar mile north in Frisco.


Is the five billion dollar mile defunct? I see nothing but new projects in Frisco even with the Wade Park fiasco.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Ace » 18 Dec 2020 13:18

Tnexster wrote:
Ace wrote:Figure two large companies relocating to this development would work to fill it up. Potential for that happening during this time of political crisis is through the roof right now. Locating next to the existing Galleria Dallas is a huge plus. I also see increased potential for the now defunct five billion dollar mile north in Frisco.


Is the five billion dollar mile defunct? I see nothing but new projects in Frisco even with the Wade Park fiasco.


I was referring to the suspension of the promotional "five billion mile" by the city of Frisco.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 13 Jan 2021 11:03

Ace wrote:
Tnexster wrote:
Ace wrote:Figure two large companies relocating to this development would work to fill it up. Potential for that happening during this time of political crisis is through the roof right now. Locating next to the existing Galleria Dallas is a huge plus. I also see increased potential for the now defunct five billion dollar mile north in Frisco.


Is the five billion dollar mile defunct? I see nothing but new projects in Frisco even with the Wade Park fiasco.


I was referring to the suspension of the promotional "five billion mile" by the city of Frisco.

It's the NoRtHeRn PlAtInUm CorRiDoR now, thank you very much, SIR.

Love the development in Plano & Frisco along DNT, can't wait to see it all built up (I know, it's somewhat bland, but meh, I'll take it & pray for improvement along the way). Anyways, all for the development, but the damn name, yikes. Northern Platinum Corridor. Yuck.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 10 Feb 2021 10:08

Apartment project moves ahead next to Dallas Galleria
Developer ZOM is planning an LBJ Freeway rental community.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -galleria/

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 24 Feb 2021 15:28

Dallas Midtown developer: 'One of the largest corporations in the U.S. was prepared to land' prior to pandemic

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... 0#cxrecs_s

"We had an unbelievable amount of activity in the three to five weeks leading up to the pandemic. Had there not been a pandemic, one of the largest corporations in the United States was prepared to land in Midtown," Beck said. "I can’t tell you who that is, but that didn’t happen. Whether or not that will still happen post-pandemic, I honestly don’t know. I don’t even think that particular tenant knows themselves."

Many large companies have been slow to reenter the market, as they continue to plan what their future office use strategy will be moving forward. For companies that were active before the pandemic, Beck says he's heard of two to three dozen that are slowly coming back and having conversations about their real estate needs. However, he doesn't expect to hear much from them until later on in the year.


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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 24 Feb 2021 15:41

undefinedprocess wrote:Anyone got a guess on who that corporation was?


I suspect not even Beck knows.

It would have leaked by now if there was truth to it.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 24 Feb 2021 15:55

Addison wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:Anyone got a guess on who that corporation was?


I suspect not even Beck knows.

It would have leaked by now if there was truth to it.

Probably true. Think he's just trying to stir things up and hope for some sort of cash injection into the project? Guess they really do need a resuscitation or something... Disappointing, but not surprising if that's what this is all about.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 24 Feb 2021 16:56

undefinedprocess wrote:
Addison wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:Anyone got a guess on who that corporation was?


I suspect not even Beck knows.

It would have leaked by now if there was truth to it.

Probably true. Think he's just trying to stir things up and hope for some sort of cash injection into the project? Guess they really do need a resuscitation or something... Disappointing, but not surprising if that's what this is all about.


Besides, even if what he says is true about office tenants, I don't see why that would hold up what's left of the demolition, the infrastructure work and residential portion of the project.

It's so emotionally draining having to see that rotting carcass with the eerily lit AMC sign every time I ride pass. I can't help but imagine that it's also hurting traffic for businesses surrounding it.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 24 Feb 2021 17:00

Probably just strapped for cash like we all thought. I agree, it’s a disaster on many levels.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby rono3849 » 24 Feb 2021 20:47

undefinedprocess wrote:Probably just strapped for cash like we all thought. I agree, it’s a disaster on many levels.


The site is a dust bowl now. Why the movie theater is still standing is beyond me.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 24 Feb 2021 22:40

Addison wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:Anyone got a guess on who that corporation was?


I suspect not even Beck knows.

It would have leaked by now if there was truth to it.


Whole bunch of other corporations making the move despite the covid mess, from everything I hear the pandemic isn't stopping deals and in fact has helped accelerate many.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 25 Feb 2021 00:24

rono3849 wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:Probably just strapped for cash like we all thought. I agree, it’s a disaster on many levels.


The site is a dust bowl now. Why the movie theater is still standing is beyond me.


Ppl still go to the movies?

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 05 Mar 2021 11:01

I was doing some pixel peeper level analysis of the KDC Park Heritage webcam (looking straight at AMC), and it seems like some dirt has been moved around post-winter storm... I know I'm probably reading into things way too deeply, but what do y'all think? That's the most activity that I've seen on that camera in awhile, and... I don't know. Guess that's why I'm looking for y'all's opinions/input.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Brettoj » 05 Mar 2021 14:36

I can see that spot from my office. I haven’t seen any real work being done at all. They did briefly haul away part of the dirt mountain.

They are turning dirt on the ZOM apartment project across from the Galleria.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby undefinedprocess » 05 Mar 2021 14:38

Brettoj wrote:I can see that spot from my office. I haven’t seen any real work being done at all. They did briefly haul away part of the dirt mountain.

They are turning dirt on the ZOM apartment project across from the Galleria.

Ah, gotcha. And yeah, I knew the ZOM project was still underway, but as far as the main part of Midtown (especially KDC's Park Heritage), I was like hmmm... What's going on here?

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 05 Mar 2021 15:10

Somewhat off-topic, but out of curiosity, what's going up at the corner of Noel and Southern? Is it more apartments?

There wasn't much activity on the site for a while, then the other day I saw at least one worker back on site and it looked like a new crane was set up.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby mwaskow » 11 Mar 2021 12:15

Addison wrote:Somewhat off-topic, but out of curiosity, what's going up at the corner of Noel and Southern? Is it more apartments?

There wasn't much activity on the site for a while, then the other day I saw at least one worker back on site and it looked like a new crane was set up.



This monstrosity: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... l-project/

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby eburress » 11 Mar 2021 13:55

Geeze, I hope it looks better than that rendering!

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Tnexster » 11 Mar 2021 15:40

That is really awful.

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Addison
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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby Addison » 11 Mar 2021 15:52

eburress wrote:Geeze, I hope it looks better than that rendering!


Agreed.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby R1070 » 11 Mar 2021 16:20

I’m just excited for that big junky metal sign to get torn down on the corner.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby mhainli » 12 Mar 2021 21:28

Is the AMC theater still open?? Just drove by it at 7:30 PM (Friday) on the I-635 side. It looked dark and closed with no cars in the parking lot.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby rono3849 » 13 Mar 2021 09:16

R1070 wrote:I’m just excited for that big junky metal sign to get torn down on the corner.


Why that old Doran Chevrolet sign remained standing has always been a mystery, but I'll be glad to see it sent to the junk yard. It's been an eyesore for years.

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Re: North Dallas: Midtown

Postby tamtagon » 13 Mar 2021 09:48

^Haha I know that's right.

I bought a used car there once.

Re: corporate relocation to this development... I would be surprised if a big company does not anchor a new office building. The location is excellent.