Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I45Tex wrote:Cool looking, but please nobody start crying if they build this design and <25 floors of office atop a garage is three hundred feet shorter than maconahey found on the FAA!

There is so much AAC parking in the immediate vicinity of the buidling. Is there a reason why a deal can't be worked out to limit parking restrictions and allowing the AAC structure to be used for daytime purposes as well?

Leases and property value from the circumstance of the ownership. The property is worth more with dedicated parking that the property can control access to. Many of the Harwood types of tenants, big multinational corporations have no stomach for shared parking for the sake of some urbanists desire for fewer garages. They want a garage with security and safe sheltered walk to the luxury elevator and back to their car to drive home to the park cities or Frisco. Harwood isn't leasing to avocado toast millennials here with a desire to walk/bike to work. They want to be rest assured an event or the general public won't complicate access to their parking.

^In addition to vast square footage of dedicated parking, Harwood and Victory Park built commercial service, entertainment, dining and retail space as an amenity for the office tenants. At some point, the amenities spaces will be able to focus more and more on the resident population of the area, balancing the line-up, extending operating hours. In Victory Park, we're seeing the beginning of such a shift thanks at last to the thousands of residential units built recently.

Maybe it wont be much longer before Harwood is able to become an additional walkable destination. The scope and scale of Harwood Street from Katy Trail to Olive Street will become an entirely new deal and the remaining development will fill out with a much larger presence in the skyline as well as create a half mile stretch of tony sidewalk cafes, 'European Food Hall' promenades, and garden trails.

If Harwood intl wants to even remotely enter the conciousness of the greater public as as an Urban Live,Work,Play destination they will eventually have to work on the inexistent walkability of their district.

The fact that they own all this land and don't even work on improving the connectivity of the sidewalks as they complete their own buildings tells you everything you need to know about the half ass nature of their "urban" planning.

I'll start dreaming of "European Stlye Promenades" once they hire an actual urban planning firm.

^word

I'm hopeful that what we've seen in renderings for some of these recent projects is the start. Harry Hines/McKinnon is as much an awful commuter raceway as it is an outstanding point of access. I have little doubt minimal tweaks to the side streets and Harwood could create a system of vehicular circulars channeling the peak commuting traffic into the parking with minimal impact on a contiguous pedestrian environment.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:If Harwood intl wants to even remotely enter the conciousness of the greater public as as an Urban Live,Work,Play destination they will eventually have to work on the inexistent walkability of their district.

The fact that they own all this land and don't even work on improving the connectivity of the sidewalks as they complete their own buildings tells you everything you need to know about the half ass nature of their "urban" planning.

I'll start dreaming of "European Stlye Promenades" once they hire an actual urban planning firm.

Totally on board there. There is almost nothing that makes Hall Office Complex in Frisco different from Harwood District here in Uptown. They are both successful office developments with great commercial success no doubt but are ghost towns in more ways than one other than some office workers and an end of day rush hour backup onto the freeway. Hall is trying to solve his lack of activity and amenities by building a shopping center and testing a transit supplement. Harwood has an advantage and they haven't been interested in taking advantage of it either. Call an urban planner, not another engineer.

maconahey wrote:

Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: HIF Phase XII

Work Schedule: 03/01/2019 to 03/31/2022

Site Elevation: 422
Structure Height: 804
Total Height (AMSL): 1226

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 37&row=249
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 40&row=250
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 39&row=251
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 38&row=252



This shows phase XII, which is what I thought this hotel site was, but the longitude/latitude shows the lot behind Ascent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://goo.gl/maps/wSKNqR6RHNQ2

Status has been moved from proposed to interim. This probably needs it's own thread since it's a different project

Description of Location: The site is located in Uptown area of Dallas, Texas, and includes Block 367 and Block F/395 on the City map. The site is surrounded by Payne St., N. Akard St., and N. Field St., with Carolina St. crossing between Block 367 and Block F/395.
Description of Proposal: This proposal is for a new fifty-two (52) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 804 feet above ground level (1,226 feet ASL). There are no spires or antennas other than roof top equipment.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 140&row=11

This is the long rumored project in front of Cirque and would be a huge addition to the skyline. Since we have touched on hotels near VP today wouldn't it be funny if this project includes a hotel.

Wow, 52 stories... Now we're talking! I can't imagine them building something this magnitude as spec though. Maybe they have a chunk of this already leased?

I hope they fix the sidewalks surrounding this new building, specifically along Caroline. Doing so would do a lot towards helping to get people from Ascent, Moda, and Victory Place to Right Aid and the new Tom Thumb by foot.

eburress wrote:I hope they fix the sidewalks surrounding this new building, specifically along Caroline. Doing so would do a lot towards helping to get people from Ascent, Moda, and Victory Place to Right Aid and the new Tom Thumb by foot.

Here's a question, is Caroline Street really necessary or could it be converted to a pedestrian walkway altogether?

Tnexster wrote:This is the long rumored project in front of Cirque and would be a huge addition to the skyline. Since we have touched on hotels near VP today wouldn't it be funny if this project includes a hotel.

Is this the would be forum project? HIF ....Hollywood Intl. Forum ..I presume

^^ No and yes for sure.

Caroline St. is probably imagined in pencil on paper to be at least one of the points of access/egress to a garage or garages (e.g. one separate across the street/one as podium to tower on the other side of street).

^ Yes, checks with chart as part of the HI Forum area.

Tnexster wrote:

eburress wrote:I hope they fix the sidewalks surrounding this new building, specifically along Caroline. Doing so would do a lot towards helping to get people from Ascent, Moda, and Victory Place to Right Aid and the new Tom Thumb by foot.

Here's a question, is Caroline Street really necessary or could it be converted to a pedestrian walkway altogether?

At this point, a pedestrian avenue seems to be as good a use as anything. Re. Caroline's necessity, that diminished greatly when the street grid was broken up. You can Caroline Street is in red in this map from 1920:

Wow that's a great map and yes I agree, the street seem to have limited use as an actual street for cars but could be a great place to link both sides of Field.

maconahey wrote:

So.is this the would be site of the forum? We know this is a Mexican restaurant... Is this Harwood's place holder project?

I know there was a FAA case study for a structure named: HIF (Harwood Intl Forum) .... What was the result of that?...


I believe it was posted on another thread about a month ago...

I think that project is dead.

maconahey wrote:

maconahey wrote:

Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: HIF Phase XII

Work Schedule: 03/01/2019 to 03/31/2022

Site Elevation: 422
Structure Height: 804
Total Height (AMSL): 1226

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 37&row=249
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 40&row=250
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 39&row=251
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 38&row=252



This shows phase XII, which is what I thought this hotel site was, but the longitude/latitude shows the lot behind Ascent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://goo.gl/maps/wSKNqR6RHNQ2

Status has been moved from proposed to interim. This probably needs it's own thread since it's a different project

Description of Location: The site is located in Uptown area of Dallas, Texas, and includes Block 367 and Block F/395 on the City map. The site is surrounded by Payne St., N. Akard St., and N. Field St., with Carolina St. crossing between Block 367 and Block F/395.
Description of Proposal: This proposal is for a new fifty-two (52) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 804 feet above ground level (1,226 feet ASL). There are no spires or antennas other than roof top equipment.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 140&row=11

Now, it's back in proposal status at 654'.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 9154&row=3

That's nice, but I wont have the sense of release until there's on over a thousand feet.

tamtagon wrote:That's nice, but I wont have the sense of release until there's on over a thousand feet.

That may be impossible in the Harwood district

I thought the Forum site was just north of this site and south of the Union?

Yes, the Forum site is basically across the street and is still very active.

So they backed it down to about 43-45 floors?

CTroyMathis wrote:

maconahey wrote:

maconahey wrote:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 37&row=249
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 40&row=250
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 39&row=251
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 38&row=252



This shows phase XII, which is what I thought this hotel site was, but the longitude/latitude shows the lot behind Ascent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://goo.gl/maps/wSKNqR6RHNQ2

Status has been moved from proposed to interim. This probably needs it's own thread since it's a different project

Description of Location: The site is located in Uptown area of Dallas, Texas, and includes Block 367 and Block F/395 on the City map. The site is surrounded by Payne St., N. Akard St., and N. Field St., with Carolina St. crossing between Block 367 and Block F/395.
Description of Proposal: This proposal is for a new fifty-two (52) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 804 feet above ground level (1,226 feet ASL). There are no spires or antennas other than roof top equipment.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 140&row=11

Now, it's back in proposal status at 654'.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 9154&row=3

It says
Work Schedule: 07/01/2019 to 09/30/2022

when do you think they will start construction? are those dates realistic?

Uptown could clearly absorb a tower of this size but would rather they mix it up a bit. Maybe some residential and office.

So is this thing happening or what? Can't tell if its a reality thing or a hopeful wishing project

Great location—better than anything they have on Harwood St. More accessible. More walkable (into VP). More shopping and restaurants nearby. Their other buildings seem to be doing well. One would this one would do even better.

Does anyone have any renders of this massive project?

CTroyMathis wrote:

maconahey wrote:

maconahey wrote:
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 37&row=249
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 40&row=250
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 39&row=251
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 38&row=252



This shows phase XII, which is what I thought this hotel site was, but the longitude/latitude shows the lot behind Ascent ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://goo.gl/maps/wSKNqR6RHNQ2

Status has been moved from proposed to interim. This probably needs it's own thread since it's a different project

Description of Location: The site is located in Uptown area of Dallas, Texas, and includes Block 367 and Block F/395 on the City map. The site is surrounded by Payne St., N. Akard St., and N. Field St., with Carolina St. crossing between Block 367 and Block F/395.
Description of Proposal: This proposal is for a new fifty-two (52) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 804 feet above ground level (1,226 feet ASL). There are no spires or antennas other than roof top equipment.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 140&row=11

Now, it's back in proposal status at 654'.

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 9154&row=3

It is now determined

Link to what blest saw:

https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 9156&row=4

Click through at top to the determination pdf.

Spoiler: Determined no hazard but at a lower height (620') than applied for (654').

We don't have a rendering of this yet do we?
And work schedule is 7/22 ?

So this will be at or around 40 floors.

Description of Proposal: The Proposal is for a new forty-one (41) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 654 feet above ground level (1,076 feet ASL). Spires maybe included, but will be at or below the maximum height of 654 feet.

kingpin wrote:Description of Proposal: The Proposal is for a new forty-one (41) story office building to be constructed in the Harwood District, uptown Dallas, Texas. Total building height is 654 feet above ground level (1,076 feet ASL). Spires maybe included, but will be at or below the maximum height of 654 feet.

But the FAA only approved it for 620'

Maybe they can get the same leasable floor count by digging a sunken plaza below ground level, like our 939' tower downtown that is 921' AGL... of course that seldom helps the street level interaction.

41 stories... 25 of which will be above grade parking prolly

I’m thinking this tower will be built on top of a parking garage and may not reach max height 620 ft. I’m also surprised that the FAA ruling on this, since there is no flight path through that area.

I'm trying not to get my hopes with this one....

clcrash19 wrote:We don't have a rendering of this yet do we?
And work schedule is 7/22 ?

Looks like it's scheduled to start on 07/01/2019.
But who knows if they will actually start..

tamtagon wrote:I'm trying not to get my hopes with this one....

Your hopes about the building's appearance or whether it happens at all?

For what it's worth my confidence level is pretty that it will happen given Harwood's track record. The quality of the building's architecture though, we'll see...

^appearance and how the skyline is affected almost as much as how it'll affect pedestrians.

Harwood doesn't excite me at all as a developer. The designs are great but the final product is always underwhelming.. alot of it has to do with the height of their towers and their lack of pedestrian infrastructure.

Call me when they start working with an urban planning firm that'll actually make their district walkable...otherwise... This will probably be another drive by tower.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Harwood doesn't excite me at all as a developer. The designs are great but the final product is always underwhelming.. alot of it has to do with the height of their towers and their lack of pedestrian infrastructure.

Call me when they start working with an urban planning firm that'll actually make their district walkable...otherwise... This will probably be another drive by tower.

Yep, exactly what I'm expecting. I'm conflicted about this area because, whatever they are doing has been hugely successful. Obviously I would have preferred their district be far more pedestrian friendly, but perhaps it is their focus on cars that made them as successful as they are today.

I really do wish they would have made the slightest bit of effort to make a more pedestrian friendly environment. I keep hearing murmurs about Harwood St becoming a pedestrian thoroughfare, but it's really not that great of a space to walk in. The location is nice in that it would be easy to create a spur off of the Katy Trail, and the street itself is relatively quiet and in-active, but I walked it recently and felt like I was mostly walking by all the buildings' loading docks. Maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but I guess I'm just surprised at the current state of it given all the talk about making it very pedestrian friendly. These are all new buildings too, so it's not like they were built decades ago and didn't have the foresight/vision for something more grand.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Harwood doesn't excite me at all as a developer. The designs are great but the final product is always underwhelming.. alot of it has to do with the height of their towers and their lack of pedestrian infrastructure.

Call me when they start working with an urban planning firm that'll actually make their district walkable...otherwise... This will probably be another drive by tower.

Hear hear...

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Harwood doesn't excite me at all as a developer. The designs are great but the final product is always underwhelming.. alot of it has to do with the height of their towers and their lack of pedestrian infrastructure.

Call me when they start working with an urban planning firm that'll actually make their district walkable...otherwise... This will probably be another drive by tower.

It's the epitome of Dallas, isn't it? Fortified office towers surrounded by a wasteland of busy roads unwelcoming to pedestrians. Very 1980s Dallas, I should say. But let's be fair, the success of this district is that it's an office district. Pedestrian activity is irrelevant when the focus is on office campuses. Maybe in twenty years this area will evolve into something more pedestrian oriented. We can dream. And I'm a dreamer.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:41 stories... 25 of which will be above grade parking prolly

Haha!

Maybe a big reason this tower may be a go. Still, if they start on schedule it will still be three years. Work schedule looks long....07/01/2019 to 09/30/2022

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... own-dallas

Tnexster wrote:Maybe a big reason this tower may be a go. Still, if they start on schedule it will still be three years. Work schedule looks long....07/01/2019 to 09/30/2022

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... own-dallas

"One of the next projects likely to start is developer Hillwood Urban's 12-story office building planned at Victory Park. The high-rise will include about 350,000 square feet of space."

where is that?

Next, to the DART station across from the parking garage in a building they originally targeted for Amazon.