Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I am familiar with a 4-5 of these proposed projects, seems like the first one out of the ground would be the early contender for getting deals signed. I almost can't believe we are in a situation where there may not be enough office product out there to satisfy demand. On the good side, downtown will fill up....already see that as the tower I work in is filling up....along with the parking lot. That might be a reason Dallas Baptist is moving ahead with it's tear down and new parking garage. They use parking at Ross Tower and that parking is getting tight.

How awesome to hear that office product is getting tight. I'm still glad developers are remaining cautiously optimistic about starting a new product, as much as I want to see more buildings being built, I'd hate for Dallas to start getting ahead of themselves and build too much.

Any new news on this? Haven't heard much lately

clcrash19 wrote:Any new news on this? Haven't heard much lately

Here is some info, it is apparently still being planned. Wish we could see an updated rendering.

http://link.dallasnews.com/index.php?ac ... e78e9ac59f

The tower would have retail at the lobby level, 14 parking levels, an amenity level on the roof of the parking garage, 23 office levels above the parking garage with an observation deck/sky lounge at the top.

"That will make it the tallest building in Uptown," said Harwood International's Jessica Young Reid. "We are actively discussing the building with potential anchor tenants."

When completed, the Harwood District is estimated to be valued at more than $3 billion - about the same as Plano's much touted Legacy West development.

Tnexster wrote:

clcrash19 wrote:Any new news on this? Haven't heard much lately

Here is some info, it is apparently still being planned. Wish we could see an updated rendering.

http://link.dallasnews.com/index.php?ac ... e78e9ac59f

The tower would have retail at the lobby level, 14 parking levels, an amenity level on the roof of the parking garage, 23 office levels above the parking garage with an observation deck/sky lounge at the top.

"That will make it the tallest building in Uptown," said Harwood International's Jessica Young Reid. "We are actively discussing the building with potential anchor tenants."

When completed, the Harwood District is estimated to be valued at more than $3 billion - about the same as Plano's much touted Legacy West development.

I expect nothing but mediocrity from Harwood.

And you probably won't be disappointed.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I expect nothing but mediocrity from Harwood.

A little harsh, eh?

Otronivel81 wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I expect nothing but mediocrity from Harwood.

A little harsh, eh?

I guess I have poor taste... I'm generally pleased with the Harwood designs. I think they've design some really pretty buildings and I'm excited to see how the new hotel comes out!

por

Otronivel81 wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I expect nothing but mediocrity from Harwood.

A little harsh, eh?

No look at their developments. They're always underwhelming. The designs are always promising. But the end product doesn't live up to the billing. And the entire district is not even walkable. They've been planning their district for 20 years and they haven't shown to be willing to improve the cohesion in the area. They're just mediocre in what they do. They're more interested in building stuff that looks good from i-35. But up close the area is rather ....meh.

Just mediocre in every sense really. There's nothing that stands out in the neighborhood..think about it ..what is so great about their district?..there's nothing....it's only positive is it's proximity to other areas..but the Harwood district itself mediocre

Totally agree with Tivo. I think if you looked and individual properties on their own merits, you would say "eh, not bad". But if you look at the entire neighborhood and what they are saying they are trying to accomplish, it really falls short.

This area could have been designed with both more height AND more walkability, and neither of those have happened.

Happy to see density, but it is easy to see where meat was left on the bone.

Harwood feels like a well located suburban office tower park at street level.

Its better than nothing, some of the buildings aren't poorly designed.. and happiest hour seems to be pretty successful especially on game nights

clcrash19 wrote:Its better than nothing, some of the buildings aren't poorly designed.

Now, that's some high praise. Maybe Harwood should quote this in their marketing material.

Austin55 wrote:Harwood feels like a well located suburban office tower park at street level.

Well said

Tucy wrote:

clcrash19 wrote:Its better than nothing, some of the buildings aren't poorly designed.

Now, that's some high praise. Maybe Harwood should quote this in their marketing material.

"The Harwood District..Hey, it's better than nothing.."

Hey, how about we're getting yet another 40-story tower.
Thanks, Harwood!!!

texasstar wrote:Hey, how about we're getting yet another 40-story tower.
Thanks, Harwood!!!

Indeed. There are some idiotic armchair quarterback comments in here regarding this announcement. But, I guess this is the interwebz after all...

texasstar wrote:Hey, how about we're getting yet another 40-story tower.
Thanks, Harwood!!!

Oh c'mon man. An investment is not special just because it is successful for an investor, any more than investment is good for urban life just because it is unusually intensive.

The only meaningful critique of Harwood District would be, "North Dallas status pursuers would not have rented in a real neighborhood, so the only viable options were to build a vertical suburban office park here or to build this space in the suburbs as another horizontal office park."

But unless that was true, it's pointless to just chide people for ingratitude. They're noticing it's high-dollar low-quality urbanism and they're not idiots for thinking that that places limits on what the core can become in the future.

Maybe you are sure we're still so far from those overall limits, today, that getting any new warm bodies in there is the most important thing for future community investment. Fine; that's a difference of opinion on strategy.

Maybe those that lease space in Harwood are saying this is what they want so really Harwood is delivering a product that sells.

^ Considering this is building number 11 it certainly looks like they know what they're doing.

IMHO, consideration should definitely be given to the lease rates in Dallas compared to the major cities with which some on this forum seem to be comparing our city to.
We're not going to get Paris, NYC, Tokyo, London, etc... level of design if the buildings can't command the lease rates to pay for them and right now Dallas is a bargain compared to a lot of places.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ Considering this is building number 11 it certainly looks like they know what they're doing.

How would Harwood executives know what's good for the neighborhood since I doubt they live there...

Because what was there before was so wonderful....empty derelict land that stray dogs used to roam free. It is easy to be a critic when you have none of your coin in the game.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ Considering this is building number 11 it certainly looks like they know what they're doing.

How would Harwood executives know what's good for the neighborhood since I doubt they live there...

Two live in the Azure that I know of... or at least did at one point. The fact Harwood has to deal with streets that are essentially runways for cars hauling ass onto or off of the DNT, I’d say they have taken lemons and made lemonade.

My biggest concern about Harwood district is, as was mentioned above, the speedway effect of McKinnon and Harry Hines slicing through an ever denser development and the difficulty that brings in terms of any sort of ground level retail, restaurant or pedestrian activity.

It's of course, understandable given that these two streets are the on/off ramps to the Tollway. Maybe over time as additional build out occurs speeding can be better controlled.

Even though the proposed designs often are less striking than the finished buildings I still think this is a pretty damn nice development investing in the core of the city and blending into Uptown and Victory is great. The newest proposed tower will be stunning if it turns out close to how we see it in the rendering. Each bulding IS getting a little better.

Not sure which Harwood District thread to place this so I am leaving it here....

Glammy restaurant Te Deseo is opening in hot Dallas neighborhood

https://www.guidelive.com/restaurant-op ... 1560541361

Drove by today and noticed that the fence has gone up around this area, saying Harwood 12..

Wondering if this thing is getting close to fruition. Also brand new harwood skyscraper advertisement went up, saying harwood is hotter right now than a texas summer.

clcrash19 wrote:Drove by today and noticed that the fence has gone up around this area, saying Harwood 12..

Wondering if this thing is getting close to fruition. Also brand new harwood skyscraper advertisement went up, saying harwood is hotter right now than a texas summer.

Wow, that's the big one! Hope we see an updated rendering soon.

clcrash19 wrote:Drove by today and noticed that the fence has gone up around this area, saying Harwood 12.

They are still trying to prelease that office tower, so they may be taking people by the site now.
But they can't do much vertically till they have an obstruction determination for the cranes, which each have to file separately from the permanent structure and have not been proposed to FAA yet.

Harwood tower would be the tallest in the Uptown area
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... town-area/

Harwood International intends to build a 42-story tower at Caroline and Field streets just north of downtown.

Called Harwood No. 12, the more than 1 million-square-foot skyscraper will straddle Caroline Street and would be the tallest in the Uptown area.

With an estimated cost of more than $100 million, the building would have 15 levels of parking, 20 stories of office space and ground floor retail and restaurant.

I think I have this in the right thread. We've been labeling the hotel as No. XII but the article says otherwise.

15 levels of parking!!!!

exelone31 wrote:15 levels of parking!!!!

I'm still waiting on a 42 story parking tower called The Parker.

So, how does 15 and 20 equal 42?

exelone31 wrote:15 levels of parking!!!!

Think convertible space....this will all be re-purposed later.

So is this the Lexi or the Forum...

Does anyone have the link to the official submission to the city for plans filed?

Lord knows the drive out of a garage that tall would be horrendous circling 15 floors ugh I hate driving three levels at my apartment.

Lord knows the drive out of a garage that tall would be horrendous circling 15 floors ugh I hate driving three levels at my apartment.

I would have to take some Dramamine if I had to park at the top, which is a galaxy brain way of thinking of ways to reduce car use.

Maybe they will have elevators for cars.

Tnexster wrote:

exelone31 wrote:15 levels of parking!!!!

Think convertible space....this will all be re-purposed later.

This is just being built as a regular parking garage though, correct? I know there are some garages built with the intention of being converted later, but this isn't the case with this one?

I realize I'm sure we could still find a way to re-purpose it in the future, but I just wanted to be clear on this one.

DPatel304 wrote:
This is just being built as a regular parking garage though, correct? I know there are some garages built with the intention of being converted later, but this isn't the case with this one?

I realize I'm sure we could still find a way to re-purpose it in the future, but I just wanted to be clear on this one.

I don't think we know enough about it to say either way yet. One might assume it's not but who knows what they have planned until we see more detail.

Gotcha. Is this all above ground parking? If so, that does make me think it might be convertible, but the fact that we have yet to see a 'convertible' parking garage in Dallas (or Texas for that matter, I think), makes me skeptical.

but the fact that we have yet to see a 'convertible' parking garage in Dallas

Even if it is convertible, that's for 30 years down the road, not for today. They would just build it as office space (or wait) if the timeline was any shorter.

1 million sf! That's the largest new tower we have seen in some time....correct?

Can't wait to see what it might look like.

DMN's counting the garage to get 1MMsf I think

Someone’s math is off on floor count. I hope this one breaks 500’.

A garage podium spanning both leftmost city blocks on the site shown would be almost 40Ksf per floor. An office tower on only the middle block would be almost 20Ksf per floor. Let's say 15x39 + 25x19, gets them 1.06MM.

FAA Height approved 620' last year, see page 2 of this thread.

Bisnow has a better article as usual...https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/ ... rict-99499

Development plans filed with the city show Harwood No. 12 includes a build-to-suit 40-story office tower on a 1.27-acre site off Caroline Street in Dallas and bordered by Payne, North Akard and Field streets.

The development includes parking, an observation deck/sky lounge and 498K SF of developed office, retail and restaurant space.

Other planned amenities include curated gardens and a 21K SF amenity deck complete with fitness and conference facilities, according to documents filed with the city.

So far, roughly 2M SF of prospective tenants have expressed interest in the new Harwood 12 development, she said.