Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I've seen some cities do some innovative things to help retail expand it's footprint during pandemic. Most of that means closing streets to cars and expanding the sideway experience to the full street. Basically creates a completely outdoor shopping experience and for restaurants it expands table options and allows for more effective socially distant dining. Granted, it could be hot here but the evenings would be okay.

It's tough. In my opinion, there's SO much construction chaos in such a small area that even if the streets were closed to traffic (which I'm all for), walking around Knox is pretty unpleasant right now. At this point, I'm just hoping the end of COVID dovetails with the completion of some of these projects, and we can start fresh.

Don't get me wrong, I'm really sad about Knox getting hammered, but I also think a lot of the suburban mall chain stores felt dated and were just clinging to life. Spots like Kate Spade and Z Gallerie are a lot less relevant/stylish than they were in the early 2000s.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Covid has been hard on retail.

You can thank the arbitrary restrictions early on that permitted hundreds of shoppers to cram into big-box stores selling "essential" goods while closing boutique/specialty stores that average, what, 5 customers at any given time? It's clear that a lot of people went to "essential" businesses to have an excuse to get out of the house, and of course big box retailers like Walmart and Target were still able to sell "non-essential" items that people would otherwise buy at a shop on Knox Street or any of the other urban retail centers.

Also look at what Bishop Arts did comparison to other shopping areas. As soon as they could be permitted they had street side setups that made Bishop Arts look like a year around street festival selling food and retail items without a hesitation to if it would work. Then you look at places like Knox where all the streets are major pass through's for traffic from 75 to Uptown to Highland Park etc so taking up outside spaces becomes impossible and somewhat dangerous since the sidewalks are already narrow and there is limited street parking to take even temporarily for such setups. I wonder who is truly doing worse? Is it the boutique shopping area not on a major freeway or is it the shopping and dinning area that has taken to the streets.

I have no idea who is actually doing better, small shops in large shopping districts or large stand alone stores. Both attract their own style of shoppers.
In Texas during the hot and humid summer season, outdoor shopping will never be popular. We need air conditioning. That's why indoor malls became popular in the first place, and why all inclusive big box stores are today. Air conditioning is important.

The recent trend for outdoor shopping internationally - especially in Europe where it never disappeared because air conditioning was not needed - in my humble opinion is the result of non smoking laws which chased the smokers outside. That's the main reason why malls are not as popular today. The shopping sprees lasting more than an hour are becoming more and more infrequent, as shoppers desiring to get it over with quickly has increased. That's the major reason why all inclusive big box store4s have become more popular - speed.

There will always be shoppers desiring hours of fun and access to the outdoors. Whichever way you prefer to shop, I hope your town or city is large enough to provide them.

electricron wrote:The recent trend for outdoor shopping internationally - especially in Europe where it never disappeared because air conditioning was not needed - in my humble opinion is the result of non smoking laws which chased the smokers outside. That's the main reason why malls are not as popular today. The shopping sprees lasting more than an hour are becoming more and more infrequent, as shoppers desiring to get it over with quickly has increased. That's the major reason why all inclusive big box stores have become more popular - speed.

There will always be shoppers desiring hours of fun and access to the outdoors. Whichever way you prefer to shop, I hope your town or city is large enough to provide them.

Europe definitely has more outdoor shopping, both in the sense of traditional street markets which never went away, as well as pedestrianized city centers where a few blocks of "roads" (I use quotes because the roads were one lane about 6 feet wide.) have been closed off to cars or restricted to only allow access outside of shopping hours for truck deliveries, etc. Closing those streets to car traffic had very minor impact on traffic because they weren't major thoroughfares. Also, in most cities outside of London/Paris, those outdoor shopping areas also featured *huge* car parks, the idea being that people still drive into the city and park at the edge of the pedestrianized area, then walk to the various stores to do their shopping (the walk being tolerable as it doesn't reach 100 on a regular basis in Europe).

Knox is a fairly important arterial - closing it or Cole/McKinney off in favor of outdoor shopping isn't feasible and such a move would no doubt impact where the high net worth shopper that Knox street appeals to goes to get their cutlery or iPhones or kids toys.

The new RH store appears to be topped out. They seem to be starting an above ground parking garage in back.

Weirs Plaza is above ground level now. They have installed the framing required to rebuild the old Highland Park Pharmacy building.

Some additional update pics.

LongonBigD wrote:The new RH store appears to be topped out. They seem to be starting an above ground parking garage in back.

I haven't been paying close attention to RH's plans for a hotel so this may be irrelevant, but I wonder if the garage will be built in a way that it can potentially accommodate a future hotel structure above.

jegchachi wrote:Some additional update pics.

Great pics, thanks for posting. My main take away from these is how great 75 is here. I wish all highways around the urban core were trenched in such a manner. From this vantage point you truly would not know it was there if you didn't already know what to look for.

You're right!. From this perspective you'd never know there was a freeway going through there!

Parking garage going up behind new RH (in the background).

It appears to be pre-fab parts and should go up very quickly. I did notice that the tops of the outer sections appear to have detailing (sorta like crown molding). I found that amusing, but didn’t take pics.

Weir's 1/10/2021

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

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Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

RH

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

LongonBigD wrote:This project (mid-rise apt building at NE corner of McKinney and Hester) has a name (vidorra McKinney Avenue) and a new look. I seem to remember the original renderings were mostly red brick. Sorry for the picture quality.

At least the parking stayed underground and beside the alley. This one remains more pedestrian friendly than the original proposal with its 6-7 story garage base.

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr
Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr


Untitled by rlopez2011, on Flickr

Thanks for all the photos above, kingpin.

Looks like a furniture store is at least planning to go in at the 4400 block of McKinney. New build construction later this year with an opening the following Spring perhaps. I'll go ahead and make a reasonable guess the file might mean Blu Dot (vice Blue) and their link is below (not w/Dallas location, just visuals of what their locations look like).

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/ ... 2021007438
Blu Dot: https://www.bludot.com/storelocator/index/index/
Location: https://goo.gl/maps/CTggcjprZP1wZAAX6

Yep. Definitely that store going in.

Village Baking is opening a location at the old Parachute/Outdoor Voices space at 4539 Travis. Presumably, the concept would be quite similar to Boulangerie.

Great addition to the neighborhood, even if that corner is incredibly underutilized. Curious as to the length of their lease.

https://dallas.culturemap.com/news/rest ... ox-travis/

Looks like Verizon is also coming to Knox... Taking over the Froggies space next to where Lovesac is going.

https://www.tdlr.texas.gov/TABS/Search/ ... 2021007496

https://shopcompanies.com/sites/default ... 1603122147

Village Bakery is already open; I went today and it was jumping. This area will be really great once the construction is over.

This has to be the epicenter of French cuisine in Dallas, with Up on Knox, Toulouse, Le Bilboquet, Grange Hall, and now Village Bakery all in the same stretch of Knox/Travis.

How is Village Bakery?

Kelley USA wrote:Looks like Verizon is also coming to Knox... Taking over the Froggies space next to where Lovesac is going.

Nice find. Thank you, but.....yuck. Really A Verizon store on Knox? And I’m a customer.

Seems like a waste of good retail space to have a Verizon store on that street.

LongonBigD wrote:Nice find. Thank you, but.....yuck. Really A Verizon store on Knox? And I’m a customer.

That was my first reaction as well, but perhaps this is simply a sign of a maturing neighborhood? The area is getting a business that will service people living in the immediate area.

At least they aren't building a standalone suburban monstrosity, like some of the bigger chains tend to do.

I am curious as to what type of Verizon store this might be... The estimated cost is $900,000, which seems high for a generic Verizon store build-out.

Well they are down the street from Apple Store Knox. Apple and Verizon are buddies on 5G iPhones right now. AT&Ts 5G isn't as prolific so Apple and Verizon are pushing the latest iPhone. Maybe Verizon is wanting to do something unique here? Mind you I would wonder why here and not in some place like NorthPark where they could be just as close to a Apple store demographic and service area.

DPatel304 wrote:At least they aren't building a standalone suburban monstrosity, like some of the bigger chains tend to do.

Like Verizon did at Lemmon and Oak Lawn when the Avon apartments were torn down for the parking lot of their ugly grey box on the corner. So, yes, it is a small improvement that they will be using an existing storefront for a Knox location.

DPatel304 wrote:

LongonBigD wrote:Nice find. Thank you, but.....yuck. Really A Verizon store on Knox? And I’m a customer.

That was my first reaction as well, but perhaps this is simply a sign of a maturing neighborhood? The area is getting a business that will service people living in the immediate area.

At least they aren't building a standalone suburban monstrosity, like some of the bigger chains tend to do.

There are plenty of empty mattress stores here that would be perfect for Verizon. This is a mature neighborhood, has been for decades - retail store wise. This is lazy marketing team I/m/o.

emmasensei wrote:Village Bakery is already open; I went today and it was jumping. This area will be really great once the construction is over.

Didn't see this DMN link posted so dropping it here.

Bread shop Village Baking Co. opens second location in Dallas

https://www.dallasnews.com/food/restaur ... land-park/

This DMN story by Maria Halkias is a couple of months old now, but I guess I missed it. Perhaps some of you saw it because there have been comments on the forum comparing Highland Park Village and Knox District shopping/tenants. I think what is being put together here can be a runaway success once the large construction projects are completed (2021?) on Knox and COVID settles down. There are a couple of progress pics for existing projects and a little more to the story at the DMN:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/retail/2020/12/02/billionaire-michael-dell-investors-in-dallas-knox-street-hire-ray-washburnes-highland-park-village-team-to-lead-redevelopment/

Billionaire Michael Dell, investors in Dallas’ Knox Street hire Ray Washburne’s Highland Park Village team to manage it

Michael Dell’s family investment firm along with Trammell Crow Co. and The Retail Connection own 12 acres of the Knox Street District and have big plans for it.The owners of a good portion of Knox Street have hired the team at Highland Park Village to help lease, market and manage their property. The group amassed the property in multiple purchases over the last two years, and it now owns about 70% of the Knox Street District, including buildings on Cole and McKinney avenues and Travis Street.

Highland Park Village Management Co., led by Stephen Summers and Ray Washburne, whose families own Highland Park Village, will work with the ownership group, which is still putting together a master plan for the area that will include existing and new buildings. Much of the south side of Knox Street is under construction for two large projects that are not part of the MSD, Trammell Crow and Retail Connection-owned properties. Restoration Hardware’s multi-level store looks like it will be completed early 2021. Down the street, the 12-story office and retail building under construction by the family that owns Weir’s Furniture Village is also scheduled to open sometime in 2021. Since the pandemic, some smaller shops have closed on Knox, but the district, known for its concentration of home and furniture stores and national retailers including Apple, Trader Joe’s, Crate & Barrel, CB2, Mitchell Gold + Bob Williams, Pottery Barn and Lululemon, has retained most of its stores during the pandemic.

Summers, who will oversee the leasing from the Highland Park Village team, said the neighborhood “is a world-class destination and has been ready for a refresh for a while.” “Knox Street has an incredible opportunity to play off the Katy Trail, and the area’s demographics and density,” he said. Highland Park Village has far more demand for space than supply, and some of those businesses might be better suited for the Knox District, Summers said. MSD Capital partner Coburn Packard said the group is ready to bring “our vision for Knox, particularly the opportunities that will be created for leading retailers and restaurant brands.”

That's exciting! Thanks for sharing!

All this movement in the area is great, now they just need to get DART to build out the station that was originally planned for there.

That station should be built at the same time as D2, but whatever... I'll be happy with MATA extension to Knox, delighted with MATA extension to SMU and Mockingbird Station.

Any official timing for the MATA extension?

Cbdallas wrote:Any official timing for the MATA extension?

Is there an actual plan for an extension, or is this one of those "plans" like the "plan" for a full second level expansion of Northpark? FWIW, I don' see anything about an extension in the NCTOG 2045 transportation plan.

Tucy wrote:

Cbdallas wrote:Any official timing for the MATA extension?

Is there an actual plan for an extension, or is this one of those "plans" like the "plan" for a full second level expansion of Northpark? FWIW, I don' see anything about an extension in the NCTOG 2045 transportation plan.

Pre-COVID, I had a conversation with a gentleman who purported to be a former C-suite executive, or equivalent, for MATA. He stated the biggest road block to a potential expansion was from the property owners. There was zero interest in a MATA extension, and they wanted a modern DART streetcar, if they wanted any form of public transit at all.

I don’t know why someone would lie about that, but hearsay nonetheless.

^ If what he said was true, ugh, beggars can't be choosers. I think everyone would rather have DART, but we all know how hard it is for anything DART to get done. Sometimes, this city/area as a whole drives me nuts. Don't understand why other cities can get stuff done, but DFW suits seem to, I don't know, just, I really don't know. Other than continuously dropping the ball (which we all know), I don't know how else to put it. Guess it seems like many enjoy dropping the ball. Maybe they all browse this forum, see us all excited about projects, and make them crash & burn so they see us all cry. Maybe we should start saying we HATE every single project so if they are lurking DFWU, they complete them in order to spite us, but in actuality, we want them to. Reverse psychological warfare!
Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

Can anyone find any indication that the feasibility study was ever done?

Tucy wrote:Can anyone find any indication that the feasibility study was ever done?

I can’t comment on the above, but peep page 69 of the DART Reference Book.


• City of Dallas working with NCTCOG to study potential extension to Knox Street, including
potential upgrades to accommodate modern streetcar in the M-Line corridor

https://www.dart.org/about/DARTReferenceBookMar20.pdf

LPG wrote:

Tucy wrote:Can anyone find any indication that the feasibility study was ever done?

I can’t comment on the above, but peep page 69 of the DART Reference Book.


• City of Dallas working with NCTCOG to study potential extension to Knox Street, including
potential upgrades to accommodate modern streetcar in the M-Line corridor

https://www.dart.org/about/DARTReferenceBookMar20.pdf

"Upgrades to accommodate modern streetcars" has to mean a full rebuild of track, outside of the portion built for the downtown loop a few years back, no? I can't imagine the legacy MATA track can handle the lower clearance of a modern car, nor do they support level boarding.

Also, I wonder what happens with service patterns in that scenario. DART uses the "site-specific shuttle" program to provide some funding to MATA, but those cars are obviously not ADA compliant and that funding mechanism allows for an exception from normal ADA requirements. I fear that any change that enables Modern DART streetcars to run that same route may spell the end of the historic cars outside of special events or private charters.

I certainly understand the equity argument, but even if they alternate Modern and historic cars, I can't see the feds allowing DART to say "well every other car is ADA compliant so wheelchair-bound users can just wait for the next one." The way the laws are written, the feds would prefer no accessibility at all (e.g. NYC and Chicago have numerous non-accessible stations on several lines to this day) than allow for a project that upgrades a line from 0% to 50% accessible...

LPG wrote:

Tucy wrote:Can anyone find any indication that the feasibility study was ever done?

I can’t comment on the above, but peep page 69 of the DART Reference Book.


• City of Dallas working with NCTCOG to study potential extension to Knox Street, including
potential upgrades to accommodate modern streetcar in the M-Line corridor

https://www.dart.org/about/DARTReferenceBookMar20.pdf

Thanks. So . . . almost 4 years after we thought they were kicking off a feasibility study, we are still only at the stage where "Dallas [is] working with NCTCOG to study potential extension . . ." In Dallas-speak, that sentence means almost nothing. And as I mentioned above, it doesn't seem to be in NCTCOG's 25 year plan.

Tucy wrote:
Thanks. So . . . almost 4 years after we thought they were kicking off a feasibility study, we are still only at the stage where "Dallas [is] working with NCTCOG to study potential extension . . ." In Dallas-speak, that sentence means almost nothing. And as I mentioned above, it doesn't seem to be in NCTCOG's 25 year plan.

Agreed. Just trying to provide what little information I could find.

A tweet to Phil Kingston, or to a lesser extent Blewett, would probably be the easiest way to solve this if you’re genuinely seeking an answer.

Okay, so found this to be a little interesting... Came across this new site plan that was updated a week ago. It has a new rendering, but something really stood out after I started to analyze it. Looks like they plan to do away with the parking lots on the north side behind Pottery Barn and Crate & Barrel, tear down a portion of a building next to Starpower, add a street and build on 4 new parcels labeled 4C, 4D, 5C and 5D. Or that's what it looks like to me???

https://theretailconnection.net/propert ... dallas-tx/

Interesting! That new rendering appears to be of a new development on the southwest corner of Knox and Travis and with the look of that tower in the background, it's going to stretch most of the way down the street (so long Wild About Harry's). That partially explains why nothing's happened with all those older structures on Travis.

I looked at the Retail Connection plot and totally missed the new street.

Some thoughts
1) I hope those four lots are not just future parking garages—would it be cheaper to just make a donation to DART to open Knox-Henderson subway stop?
2) perhaps the four lots could have retail facing the streets with garage/apts above? (like Knox Heights on McKinney Ave). Kind of mini West Village effect.
3) it would be amazing as a pedestrian only street.

Found this image imbedded in a Retail Connection brochure. It seems to be the rendering eburess mentions below.
https://theretailconnection.net/wp-cont ... 2.2.21.pdf

It appears to be a view from Knox street (near Toulouse) looking south down the “alley” between the old 7-11 and Mashburns (plots 1&2 in the site plan—tower in background would be plot 3).

With 750,000 SF of new space it at least *seems* like this could be more West Village-like in its density. On the other hand though, the structures in the rendering are only two stories so I suppose it could also be mostly low-rise with a few towers mixed in. I guess we'll see.

Either way, great job finding all this Kelley USA!

Interesting, so this would be where that new bakery currently sits? Where Stag originally started their store in Dallas.