Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I'd love for something to go into that space that brings the retail up to the street and improves the sidewalk as well.

khres wrote:Stockdale owns the stretch from Kozy to Knox Street Pub, and with all those closing there must be some redevelopment plans. They also own a significant portion of the block on the east side of McKinney

http://stockdale.com/properties/texas/knox-promenade

That’s good information. Thanks.

I am optimistic the change will be much better. Stockdale has been upping their tenant list as spaces are re-leased. I think I would like to see a tear down and redo to fix walking and to further extend retail south on McKinney. I guess we wait and see.

Mecox- behind RH- has put up two large "Moving" signs on the windows outside their doors. Looks like Knox will be very busy next year with the strip redo on McKinney, Weirs getting demoed for the new tower, RH getting ready to start their flagship Gallery and the old 4510 space getting converted to become Crate & Barrel's CB2 brand.

Where is the intel on CB2 coming from? Very exciting if that is true!

CB2 would be a great fit and long overdue. That brand is more modern, so it would be interesting to see if any of the original building is kept.

Dallasretail wrote:Where is the intel on CB2 coming from? Very exciting if that is true!

Simply from asking the official looking guys who were locking up the doors on my way to lunch from RH to Chipotle.
They mentioned it had been leased- to CB2. I don't know anything about the building being torn down or replaced. Also, I asked an associate at C+B and after being coy, she admitted CB2 personnel had been in Dallas recently looking things over.

LongonBigD wrote:

khres wrote:Stockdale owns the stretch from Kozy to Knox Street Pub, and with all those closing there must be some redevelopment plans. They also own a significant portion of the block on the east side of McKinney

http://stockdale.com/properties/texas/knox-promenade

That’s good information. Thanks.

I am optimistic the change will be much better. Stockdale has been upping their tenant list as spaces are re-leased. I think I would like to see a tear down and redo to fix walking and to further extend retail south on McKinney. I guess we wait and see.

A little more digging yielded this rendering and listing on loopnet. Angle is from the corner of McKinney and Armstrong looking to the south-west. Not an earth shattering redevelopment, but definitely better than what is currently there.


https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/4433-4447-McKinney-Ave-Dallas-TX/14487883/

Yikes. Not really a step forward in my opinion. Why do we continue to get lame strip malls in some of the highest value areas? I can't believe we're not seeing something similar to The Terminal development on Fitzhugh and Buena Vista. Seems like they could fit more retail space and residential/hotel space above to make better use of an expensive piece of land.

I agree what is this one story face lift junk going on in what should be a dense urban area.

The zoning south of Armstrong in this area (except along Central) only allows about 30’ in height. A two story retail center would not work without underground parking.

A zoning change would be required like the one across the alley west of this. They requested nine stories for apartments and got it (7/8 of half a city block). Sounds like the city/neighbors might have agreed, but this lot is very small.

This is still a waste of space. With the potential of CB2 kitty corner and s 9 story apt behind (should have included ground floor retail), this is a missed opportunity on McKinney Ave.

LongonBigD wrote:The zoning south of Armstrong in this area (except along Central) only allows about 30’ in height. A two story retail center would not work without underground parking.

A zoning change would be required like the one across the alley west of this. They requested nine stories for apartments and got it (7/8 of half a city block). Sounds like the city/neighbors might have agreed, but this lot is very small.

This is still a waste of space. With the potential of CB2 kitty corner and s 9 story apt behind (should have included ground floor retail), this is a missed opportunity on McKinney Ave.

Yup, another waste. I agree and don't think a zoning change would face too much opposition, especially if it included for-sale condos which the neighborhood is hungry for more of.

Wow, what a disappointment. The Knox area has been killing it lately, and this piece of land is so close to heart of the area, so I'm really surprised they didn't go for something more dense and urban.

I was really hoping the neighborhood could slowly expand southward, but this plot of land is definitely going to put quite a damper on that.

I guess we will lose the street side restaurant space for more parking. sigh...

We would all like to see something more dense and urban. However, the lack of sufficient public transit makes that improbable and impracticable. People are still dependent on vehicle travel, and with the expressway next door, the demand for cars is sufficiently high. However, to change these dynamics would require radical initiative. An extension of the MATA street car system into Knox/Henderson could help alleviate this carcentric demand by providing alternative transit needs. However, that in itself is highly limited. What the city needs is a comprehensive street car system, a modern system like the Bishop Arts line, which connects the neighborhoods. As of now, a subway system does not look financially feasible in the near future. That's going to take many decades to fulfill. There is an abandoned Knox/Henderson DART subway station that should be utilized. A streetcar connection to this station like the one in Uptown could work magic in the logistical flow of pedestrian traffic in the neighborhood, which would make high density much more practical.

We can at least dream...

joshua.dodd wrote:We would all like to see something more dense and urban. However, the lack of sufficient public transit makes that improbable and impracticable. People are still dependent on vehicle travel, and with the expressway next door, the demand for cars is sufficiently high. However, to change these dynamics would require radical initiative. An extension of the MATA street car system into Knox/Henderson could help alleviate this carcentric demand by providing alternative transit needs. However, that in itself is highly limited. What the city needs is a comprehensive street car system, a modern system like the Bishop Arts line, which connects the neighborhoods. As of now, a subway system does not look financially feasible in the near future. That's going to take many decades to fulfill. There is an abandoned Knox/Henderson DART subway station that should be utilized. A streetcar connection to this station like the one in Uptown could work magic in the logistical flow of pedestrian traffic in the neighborhood, which would make high density much more practical.

We can at least dream...

I don't think that we can't expect better development just because there is no fixed transit line nearby, when better already exists in the neighborhood with more to come. Not to mention, MATA streetcar is already planned to be extended right in front of this site. Also, cities with zero to little transit options like Nashville and Austin have moved past this type of strip center development in their high demand urban areas. There is no excuse other than that we allow developers to do almost anything they want to do in Dallas, refuse to update zoning, and allow these quick buck safe developments to litter our city.

There is plenty of potential here to do a level or two of underground parking, ground floor retail, and 3-7 floors of residential, office, or hotel above it. It's a prime site.

That's very short sighted thinking. I'm thinking in the long term. Parking garages and more people is only going to create monolithic traffic congestion which will gridlock the streets. 75 is already a parking lot during rush hour.

joshua.dodd wrote:That's very short sighted thinking. I'm thinking in the long term. Parking garages and more people is only going to create monolithic traffic congestion which will gridlock the streets. 75 is already a parking lot during rush hour.

I don't think not wanting more strip malls is "short sighted." There is a transit line coming to this area. I'm a huge proponent of public transit but just because this area doesn't have a ton already does not mean it's good to build more strip malls which will tie up this property for another few decades..... especially when there are good mixed use, urban developments in the Knox area that did not need a transit line next to them to be built.

What is the status of the Complete Street project for Knox shouldn't that be kicking off soon?

https://thehudsondallas.com/apartments/

Exterior skin almost complete. Lots of stone and brick. Very minimal stucco at least from the McKinney Ave. $2,000 to $4,000 per month

We need more micro - small units. You might as well be living in SF for that price.

Cbdallas wrote:What is the status of the Complete Street project for Knox shouldn't that be kicking off soon?

I exchanged emails with the contact listed on the City of Dallas Complete Streets page, and he said that there were some delays in the design review process. They are now expecting design to be completed in spring or summer and construction possibly beginning in the fall. I would have to imagine part of the design process delays would be linked to the redevelopment of the Weirs and speaking to Dell's people about their plans for any possible redevelopments, since those are all major stakeholders along the street. I would hope they are coordinating with the city to integrate ideas to make the widened sidewalks and diagonal parking interface well with their buildings and any retail and restaurants that will face it.

Speaking of Weir's, the Knox store will be closing on Feb 2nd, so activity shouldn't be far behind.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:We need more micro - small units. You might as well be living in SF for that price.

You're spot on to recoil from the ever increasing rental prices, but contemplate that urban but not quite "city" neighborhoods in Dallas may have been artificially low for decades -- and that's primarily because "the city" disappeared for a generation. Now that it's back, people have shown willingness to pay for the convenience of living in 'the city.'

Micro - small units are an inevitability, and they will blanket the greater downtown area, filling in the crack between the ridiculously expensive, luxurious, secured and concierge developments.

Micro units are very hard to borderline impossible to make work with the city's minimum parking requirements. Cities that have successful micro unit developments generally have either no minimum parking requirement or in some cases actually have a maximum parking allowance. Any area that could support micro units is going to require structured parking and building that much expensive parking without the associated high dollar rents doesn't pencil.

tamtagon wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:We need more micro - small units. You might as well be living in SF for that price.

You're spot on to recoil from the ever increasing rental prices, but contemplate that urban but not quite "city" neighborhoods in Dallas may have been artificially low for decades -- and that's primarily because "the city" disappeared for a generation. Now that it's back, people have shown willingness to pay for the convenience of living in 'the city.'

Micro - small units are an inevitability, and they will blanket the greater downtown area, filling in the crack between the ridiculously expensive, luxurious, secured and concierge developments.

Actually, I would have to disagree. The prices are too high because they are over valued. This is not my own assessment. This is from an article last year in the Dallas Morning News:

"The Dallas housing market has shown the most significant overheating in the last two years and is now 15 percent to 19 percent overvalued," Fitch managing director Grant Bailey said in a new report. "Overvalued markets are more likely to experience a slowdown in price growth, or a price correction."

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... ome-prices

Give it a few more years and these ridiculously high prices will correct.

I don’t know how the Weir’s Tower is going with there progression, but expect to see big moves from the RH front. The Knox store will be consolidated into the recently opened RH Modern store by the third week of March & demo of the old building is slated for early April. Currently the project is on a 12 month completion schedule.

Not to be a downer, but isn't the RH front just a one-story strip mall?

jetnd87 wrote:Not to be a downer, but isn't the RH front just a one-story strip mall?

It's going to be a multi-level flagship store, with an attached midrise RH hotel. The plans looked very cool.

Oh nice! Anyone have an image?

Good to hear that is finally moving forward. 12 month construction schedule seems very aggressive. Isn't RH to have underground parking and 7-8 stories total? It makes me wonder if this is stick construction above the pedestal (retail store) for the hotel portion.


UPDATE---Went in search of the early plans. In those drawings, the taller part sits behind the 3-story retail on what is now the parking lot/Mecox space. The "guesthouse"/spa is 4 stories on top of an above ground parking garage. There does appear to be a pool at the top, so probably not stick construction.

Glad to hear chatter about the RH Gallery (so it's an absolutely sure thing?!) because it really says something that Dallas will have one.

I'm meh on RH as a consumer, but I will say that the Gallery spaces themselves are mind-boggling. I've been to the Boston, New York, and Chicago spaces, and the galleries are just over the top fancy and really fun to wander around--the Boston Gallery is actually a converted museum, and the building is always pointed out on those touristy Duck Tours because it's just so beautiful. Having an RH Gallery (and, apparently, an RH hotel and restaurant?) will up the average of the Knox District significantly.

Matt777 wrote:

jetnd87 wrote:Not to be a downer, but isn't the RH front just a one-story strip mall?

It's going to be a multi-level flagship store, with an attached midrise RH hotel. The plans looked very cool.

It will be very cool w/ a restaurant-bar concept as the centerpiece. Don’t follow the previously submitted plans as there has been major adjustments. Don’t start booking your stays there.

jetnd87 wrote:Not to be a downer, but isn't the RH front just a one-story strip mall?

When was the last time you stepped foot into an RH Gallery? Much less a full line flagship? These are reinforced concrete/ steel beam constructions that are multilevel and not quite a “strip mall” Albeit, I prefer a rehabbed historical space. But Dallas doesn’t have many of those.

Yep I 100% did not think this was the type of project on the docket. I was referring to a much earlier rendering. My bad!

New restaurant (steakhouse) coming to the old Villa-O space... Celebrity Chef Curtis Stone attached as a partner. Could be cool!

https://www.guidelive.com/food-and-drin ... 1551996438

Weir's looks to be cleared out.

Does anyone know why Restoration Hardware on Knox is closed?

Cause they are closing down to prep for demolition probably.

ozzie wrote:Does anyone know why Restoration Hardware on Knox is closed?

did you not read the sign on the door that says it was relocated around the corner to a spot on McKinney opposite Chuy's? Demo of the old Sangria space, Mecox and the old RH happens this month to make way for a flagship RH Gallery.

LongonBigD wrote:

LongonBigD wrote:Small office building updates from Knox area.

This is an announcement for a small project on Buena Vista a block south of Knox Street backing to the Katy Trail at Buena Vista and Armstrong (immediately south of 2M building). IMG_1578.jpeg

It appears the lot is cleared for this project to begin.

IMG_1578.jpg

So while I wasn’t paying attention, this is progressing on the Katy Trail about a block south of Knox.

There's a vacant office building a bit south of those condos, right on Fitzhugh and across from that proposed The Terminal mixed-use development, that's also being demo'ed. Anybody know what's going on there? It spills directly onto the trail, like the Terminal will.

That portion of Fitzhugh is getting all dressed up. There's the Terminal, the new Beverley's restaurant, House of Preservation med spa, and a new emergency vet going into a vacant lot. Appears to be some streetscape work going on too.

Back in the day.... the homeless camps flanking the rail bed near the Fitzhugh bridge were sociable and friendly. Apparently Fitzhugh marked the boundary of acceptance, any further up the line and homed residents would not tolerate homeless residents; that short stretch between Fitzhugh and Blackburn was prime real estate for a surprisingly concentrated and stealthy homeless population. That ended just as abruptly to the south near Kalita Humphreys Theater because it was simply too busy at night. I had friends living on the rail bed side of Buena Vista who had no idea five to ten people lived on the other side of their fence! This was a long time ago.

emmasensei wrote:That portion of Fitzhugh is getting all dressed up. There's the Terminal, the new Beverley's restaurant, House of Preservation med spa, and a new emergency vet going into a vacant lot. Appears to be some streetscape work going on too.

Yep. It was really only a matter of time with it being right in the middle of Knox and West Village. I'm excited to see this area redeveloped (especially excited for The Terminal).

Demo is getting ready for full tilt @ RH. Expect the old RH, Mecox & Sangria to be scraped away from the scene soon. This is exciting, with the exception of the 10 or so live oaks that will be removed. Additional signage & notices have gone up @ the Weirs site. These two projects, combined with the new apartments going up @ Armstrong / Cole are going to make it a busy neighborhood of construction.

NdoorTX wrote:

Dallasretail wrote:Where is the intel on CB2 coming from? Very exciting if that is true!

Simply from asking the official looking guys who were locking up the doors on my way to lunch from RH to Chipotle.
They mentioned it had been leased- to CB2. I don't know anything about the building being torn down or replaced. Also, I asked an associate at C+B and after being coy, she admitted CB2 personnel had been in Dallas recently looking things over.

CB2 website officially has job postings up for Dallas store positions. Good sign!

Glad we'll finally have a CB2. I know it's a pipe dream, but I always thought it'd be cool to have a CB2 downtown.

Dallasretail wrote:

NdoorTX wrote:

Dallasretail wrote:Where is the intel on CB2 coming from? Very exciting if that is true!

Simply from asking the official looking guys who were locking up the doors on my way to lunch from RH to Chipotle.
They mentioned it had been leased- to CB2. I don't know anything about the building being torn down or replaced. Also, I asked an associate at C+B and after being coy, she admitted CB2 personnel had been in Dallas recently looking things over.

CB2 website officially has job postings up for Dallas store positions. Good sign!

I just looked....the job postings give the address as 4510 McKinney Ave.

CB2 announced in the DMN.

CB2 is a great addition to the mix and with Restoration building up and the other residential mixed use projects this area is going to be fairly urban. If only we had built out that Knox DART station.........

Re: RH new project. DMN says the building permits submitted were for a 3 story REstoration Hardware/restaurant with a parking garage behind and 4 stories of hotel above the garage.

Is this reporting stale? I thought we heard the plans were changed since then. Any update?