Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

ContriveDallasite wrote:It's a small step forward, but no way this parking garage would have retail 5+ years ago.

The exposed garage with no masking is atrocious. Absolutely cheap, kills the charm of the historical buildings nearby.

It really does. Parking garages are the Apex of brutalism. Without even trying.

The expansion is only on part of the Elm Street garage. You can simply look at the google maps and see its two garages merged together with the part that services Comerica Tower is getting an expansion.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

ArtVandelay wrote:Just came from a D2 meeting and the Elm Street garage is about to undergo and expansion. /Facepalm/

The city owned Elm Street Garage , by UNT Dallas- Downtown?! Why?! The city doesn't do itself any favors building garages (KWP, this, other public garages).. Especially when every building in Downtown has a garage. Harwood St. Is a Garage alley. /Faceplant/

I don't think the Elm Street Garage (at 2102 Elm) is city-owned. I think it is owned by the same company that owns Comerica Bank Tower. That company recently got a new loan, part of the proceeds of which will be used to expand this parking garage (unless I have my Elm Street garages confused).https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/news/office/comerica-bank-tower-gets-new-loan-92711

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

ContriveDallasite wrote:It's a small step forward, but no way this parking garage would have retail 5+ years ago.

The exposed garage with no masking is atrocious. Absolutely cheap, kills the charm of the historical buildings nearby.

Is that the finished product? Looks like it's still under construction.

Tnexster wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:

ContriveDallasite wrote:It's a small step forward, but no way this parking garage would have retail 5+ years ago.

The exposed garage with no masking is atrocious. Absolutely cheap, kills the charm of the historical buildings nearby.

Is that the finished product? Looks like it's still under construction.

Essentially, yes. There will be a sign that says parking per the render. But other than that; what you see is what you get. Concrete and wires.

^Ugh....wish they would have at least bricked it to make it look a bit more like the building.

Tnexster wrote:^Ugh....wish they would have at least bricked it to make it look a bit more like the building.

The rendering previously posted.

That's actually worse. It's probably way too much garage space too. I wish they would at the very least cover these things up or even make them a living wall.

Just passed the new one on St. Paul across from First Baptist, and I can't help but notice how awful Federal Plaza looks. The city actually gave this developer right of way over Wenchell Ln and didn't ask for a single thing in return, not even a light fixture or a decorative feature facing the park.

I guess the most we can expect is they'll let someone paint a mural on this wall.

Why does Dallas allow these exposed garages with wires?! So infuriating. The same crap happened with the cheap hotel across union station facing dealt plaza.

Modera Apartments in uptown, this...and don't get me started on the Butler building and the Marriott nears farmers market.......

Butler Bros garage is so ugly and there's brown sludge all over the place now...I wish I had picture


Grotesque

The Butler's parking garage has been there for over 40 years, so it has a good excuse. Everything else, agree. I also find it hilarious that we have a thread dedicated to parking garages. This thread alone epitomizes the cultural significance of Dallas' carcentric mentality. On another note, aren't many of these newer garages designed to be later transformed into liveable spaces?

joshua.dodd wrote:On another note, aren't many of these newer garages designed to be later transformed into liveable spaces?

Probably, or at least planned for more stuff on top.... At least a handful of the biggest older garages in downtown were initially built to hold up a significant office building (Headington, Plaza of America) so those building will get build and the parking dynamic will adjust. That one across from Crow Collection of Asian Art is being build to hold more stuff...

I think the fate of the parking garage moves at a very slow pace, especially when stacked up against the forum's favorite topics. I'm not too concerned downtown one day will have to come up with a plan to address derelict parking garages idling toward demolition through neglect. Isn't Plano the first city to start reviewing parking requirements, thanks to a review from Granite? It'll come time in Dallas City Council to allow for development without too much parking, especially residential and hotel.

joshua.dodd wrote:On another note, aren't many of these newer garages designed to be later transformed into liveable spaces?

If they are, I haven't heard a single thing about that. I've been saying for a while that this should be the standard, but, to my knowledge, I've only seen examples of this in other bigger cities (I seem to recall a garage in LA that was built with the intention of being converted sometime down the line).

This honestly seems like a no brainer to me. Forget digging underground, build a aesthetically pleasing garage above ground that can be later converted into residential. In the short term, it won't be ideal, but it'll save costs/time being above ground, give the building that higher parking ratio, and give us more room to grow in a decade or so. I'd happily put up with more above ground parking if it were designed this way.

tamtagon wrote:I think the fate of the parking garage moves at a very slow pace, especially when stacked up against the forum's favorite topics. I'm not too concerned downtown one day will have to come up with a plan to address derelict parking garages idling toward demolition through neglect. Isn't Plano the first city to start reviewing parking requirements, thanks to a review from Granite? It'll come time in Dallas City Council to allow for development without too much parking, especially residential and hotel.

I wonder if the parking garages of today will eventually become 'urban trailer parks'. After-all, RVs are basically studios on wheels, and, once we have self driving RVs, I can see them becoming popular again. I guess they would have to shake off the negative connotation and make them trendy/cool somehow.

I don't think parking garages have high enough clearance for RVs

Does anyone know what’s being done to the Neiman Marcus parking garage?

tamtagon wrote:It'll come time in Dallas City Council to allow for development without too much parking, especially residential and hotel.

I mean, why not allow it now. I highly doubt there would be any interest from developers in very low- or no-parking buildings at the moment, but why wait until after the market has change to allow it? No point in being reactive instead of proactive.

Videoboard SIgn Renewal

Heard a rumor that after 24-Hour Fitness leaves the Bryan Tower garage, the new tenant will be... nothing. Bryan Tower is supposedly expanding the parking garage to include at least the two floors occupied by the gym. To attract more tenants and what not.

The Hampton Inn/AC Hotel/Residence Inn garage, as of a week or so ago. I don't know if the white at each end is the color that will be used for the outside or if that's a primer coat.

Well, at least it has ground floor space.

That it has. Not sure how much luck they'll have filling it, after not having any takers yet for the corner spot by the Hampton (the Fireside Pies tease notwithstanding).

If that retail space was built for a restaurant use, it may be easier to lease than the Commerce storefronts here and at Mercantile Commerce that never got filled. The fact that there's now dedicated parking should help.

Tnexster wrote:Well, at least it has ground floor space.

lol

Apparently there are some big 2019 announcements coming for the big Trammel Crow garage regarding the next phases of development.

R1070 wrote:Apparently there are some big 2019 announcements coming for the big Trammel Crow garage regarding the next phases of development.

Trammel Crow you say?...let me guess, Prolly another garage on top of the garage.

Hampton Inn/AC Hotel/Residence Inn garage: the east side of the garage entrance ground floor is for an indoor pool. Hopefully the Ervay side will get some neighborhood retail.

in a world quickly running out of fossil fuels supplies I think it is ridiculous to think we will not need parking because these vehicles will be driving about constantly looking for patrons...It is getting to the point when I ask the question - why humans needed at all - we just get diseases and have problems...just let machines take over. I am glad I am in my fifties and won't have to endure this dismal world that is being created of an Amazon only environment. Why go to a restaurant - we will just all wear IV's that feed us supercharged foods or even better we will have batteries implanted in our bodies and we won't have to eat at all! I like some things the way they are and driving a car is joy and privilege that should be preserved.

doubdfw67 wrote:in a world quickly running out of fossil fuels supplies I think it is ridiculous to think we will not need parking because these vehicles will be driving about constantly looking for patrons...It is getting to the point when I ask the question - why humans needed at all - we just get diseases and have problems...just let machines take over. I am glad I am in my fifties and won't have to endure this dismal world that is being created of an Amazon only environment. Why go to a restaurant - we will just all wear IV's that feed us supercharged foods or even better we will have batteries implanted in our bodies and we won't have to eat at all! I like some things the way they are and driving a car is joy and privilege that should be preserved.

I remember my step mom saying almost the exact same thing about hanging clothes on the line when I was a kid, and I asked about getting a clothes dryer I saw in the Sears catalog. lol

Of course... Clothes lines didn't kill 30,000+ American's annually.

Jokes aside... There are places where driving is truly enjoyable. But, the city is definitely not one of them.

Here's a new one in San Francisco that looks pretty nice.

https://www.wrnsstudio.com/project/miss ... structure/

"driving a car is joy and privilege that should be preserved."

Out of the last 100 conversations I've had that included driving or driving-adjacent topics, I am absolutely confident that 99 or more of them were full of decidedly joyless complaints complaints about traffic and/or other drivers.

emmasensei wrote:"driving a car is joy and privilege that should be preserved."

Which automobile manufacturer and/or highway authority was responsible for that ridiculous, wildly out-of-touch statement?

^ You obviously don't drive a Porsche.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ You obviously don't drive a Porsche.

hahaha - even when driving a fine automobile, sitting in traffic is still a miserable, soul-sucking proposition.

Some people buy very fancy cars to soothe their souls about their frustrating commutes, when that money may be better spent on rearranging their home/work combo in order to recapture more of what we all need and want: time. (which is something I think eburress is actually doing this year, no?)

An article below with an attempt to quantify the costs of commuting. I imagine this crowd will find plenty to nitpick, particularly if you're already going in with the mindset of "cars = good", "fancy cars = more good" (and particularly if you're already familiar with Pete Adeney, who is a contentious figure in lifestyle engineering).

Nevertheless, this is an urban dev forum, so I would hope that the general consensus isn't that cars always = good.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10 ... commuting/

emmasensei wrote:Some people buy very fancy cars to soothe their souls about their frustrating commutes, when that money may be better spent on rearranging their home/work combo in order to recapture more of what we all need and want: time. (which is something I think eburress is actually doing this year, no?)

An article below with an attempt to quantify the costs of commuting. I imagine this crowd will find plenty to nitpick, particularly if you're already going in with the mindset of "cars = good", "fancy cars = more good" (and particularly if you're already familiar with Pete Adeney, who is a contentious figure in lifestyle engineering).

Nevertheless, this is an urban dev forum, so I would hope that the general consensus isn't that cars always = good.

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/10 ... commuting/

^ Absolutely! There's a lot of appeal in not needing to drive and it's a big factor contributing to my latest life change.

That's a great article...thanks for sharing! Commuting takes a real toll (pun intended), and in my opinion there's not a car fancy enough to make up for the impact on one's bank account, psyche, productivity, overall happiness, etc...

Not buying an expensive vehicle(s) ( or even better not having one) is considered as one of the axioms of financial freedom; per M.Cuban!

I'm in a car for a total of 2 hours a week between work and home 5 days a week and its the most glorious freedom! I have a grocery store across the street from my apartment and a Walgreens down the street. Mind you I am also a single man who can at will move without too many roots to pull up if I were to need to make a change. I just wish more Americans could partake in such an arrangement and free themselves of long commitments to cars.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:I'm in a car for a total of 2 hours a week between work and home 5 days a week and its the most glorious freedom! I have a grocery store across the street from my apartment and a Walgreens down the street. Mind you I am also a single man who can at will move without too many roots to pull up if I were to need to make a change. I just wish more Americans could partake in such an arrangement and free themselves of long commitments to cars.

That's awesome...congrats!

Spouse and I have shared a single small EV for the last year -- granted, we arrived in Dallas with 0 cars, and going from 0 to 2 straight away would have been jarring. I work mostly from home. His commute to UT-Southwestern is 15 minutes, and we picked our neighborhood because all the basics are walking distance.

It took many steps to figure this out (we used to be a typical 2-car family in a university town) but it's probably had the single biggest impact on our day-to-day happiness than anything else I can think of. Counterintuitively, it makes us feel more autonomous and free instead of constrained and stuck. Turns out you also make a lot of surprising decisions that lead to greater happiness when you're forced to confront the real cost of transport via the Uber app, but I won't drill down too far into that here.

That MMM article may or may not have been a strong catalyst for the change back when we originally read it in 2011. I adapted the numbers to my situation and realized that the true cost of my 12-minute suburban commute in an unfancy Toyota was just over $25 each day, which was a lot of money to mid-20s me. I immediately started looking for a WFH job so I could throw that $ at 401k/student loans.

I, too, wish that our cities were designed so that more people could live this way, especially those with kids, who need the spare time and money more than most. But that's why I'm here on this forum

Here is 1200 Ross getting the screens removed, and hopefully replaced with something, in what I imagine is connected to the recent demo of 1305 Ross Ave.

Turns out the new owner of both, Tango Properties (as of 2020 per DCAD), is just another Headington LLC, so I imagine we'll know more soon.