Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

LongonBigD
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Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 25 Oct 2022 20:48

A new thread to consolidate posts RE the proposed redevelopment of SE corner of McKinney @ Armstrong from retail to a mixed use development comprised of three towers. Developers are Hines and Stockdale. Architect is KPF (Kohn Pedersen Fox) with GFF assisting locally.
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Last edited by LongonBigD on 13 Dec 2022 18:12, edited 1 time in total.

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Oct 2022 13:34

Here are more diagrams and renderings, but since it is so many, I am not posting all inline on the post but in the gallery on the post.

Screen Shot 2022-10-26 at 1.27.46 PM.png

Screen Shot 2022-10-26 at 1.29.07 PM.png
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LongonBigD
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~35/~25/~20stories

Postby LongonBigD » 26 Oct 2022 14:50

Holy crap, the apartment tower is at least 35 stories. I like the windows and facade treatment of the two resi towers. I don’t know how to edit the thread title. If this gets built like these drawings, this development will rise higher than its bookend at Knox/Travis (MSD project labeled “Knox District” on the far right in the mock-up below).

Unfortunately, the office building looks like a taller version of Richards Group down the street—in that the parking makes up a lot of the height. I do like the use of Tx limestone on the other two towers. Perhaps influenced by the fact that the developer (Hines) is from Houston and the owner (Stockdale) is from Dallas. Knox District will be unrecognizable in 3 years!

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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Oct 2022 16:10

=Being taller away from the University Park border makes sense, though, so I am not surprised it's 35 stories. If this project was proposed next to the Katy Trail, it would be protested more imagine.
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eburress
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby eburress » 26 Oct 2022 16:52

What an exciting time for this area! I can't wait to see all this rise!

LongonBigD
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 13 Dec 2022 15:32

The developer presented an update for this project to the neighborhood based on last months’ presentation to OLC. Some heights and footprints have been adjusted lower. The project will now have 57% (?) lot coverage. For example, the original proposed height for the apt tower was 440’, now ~380 (?). Increased setbacks, more trees, and moving primary auto entrances to US 75 access rd and the side-street Armstrong we’re some accommodations made.

The biggest change is that the size of the below ground parking structure (~1400 spaces total) shared by all three towers has been greatly increased. The original plan for the office tower was a podium almost as tall as the offices (like Richards Group down the road—YUCK!). Now the majority of parking will be underground. That will remove about 10 stories of above-ground parking for this component which will reduce the height of the office tower significantly.

They still haven’t committed to floor counts, but I think the estimate in the thread title are still pretty accurate since I was conservative the first time around. They plan to go back to OLC in January for review of new plan.

Separately, it was disclosed that the 16 orange-ish brick, 3-story townhomes south (to the right)of Serena and Lily are under contract to Stockdale. Plans are not finalized, but that plot will NOT be part of this specific Knox Promenade project. See lower RH structures in attached (original proposal) photo. More to come, I suppose.
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undefinedprocess
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby undefinedprocess » 23 Dec 2022 14:33

LongonBigD wrote:The developer presented an update for this project to the neighborhood based on last months’ presentation to OLC. Some heights and footprints have been adjusted lower. The project will now have 57% (?) lot coverage. For example, the original proposed height for the apt tower was 440’, now ~380 (?). Increased setbacks, more trees, and moving primary auto entrances to US 75 access rd and the side-street Armstrong we’re some accommodations made.

The biggest change is that the size of the below ground parking structure (~1400 spaces total) shared by all three towers has been greatly increased. The original plan for the office tower was a podium almost as tall as the offices (like Richards Group down the road—YUCK!). Now the majority of parking will be underground. That will remove about 10 stories of above-ground parking for this component which will reduce the height of the office tower significantly.

They still haven’t committed to floor counts, but I think the estimate in the thread title are still pretty accurate since I was conservative the first time around. They plan to go back to OLC in January for review of new plan.

Separately, it was disclosed that the 16 orange-ish brick, 3-story townhomes south (to the right)of Serena and Lily are under contract to Stockdale. Plans are not finalized, but that plot will NOT be part of this specific Knox Promenade project. See lower RH structures in attached (original proposal) photo. More to come, I suppose.

Sigh, how quickly this was scaled down, specifically the residential component...

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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 23 Dec 2022 15:38

Isn't that how the game is played? Propose more than you want and then when they say "no," come back with what will appear to be a compromise on your part. I think overall, this project's individual components are still taller than the corresponding buildings in the MSDell/TC project on the west side of Knox District. The developer supported this observation by saying that height is appropriate along NCX which makes sense to me.

There were some local homeowners who were very verbally opposed to height, traffic and construction disruption. I don't think that is new for these zoning upgrade cases. We shall see. I think OLC committee has more sway on these things. I sat next to two OLC Board members. They didn't sound too concerned with the project and voiced their appreciation of the changes that were made to date. Time will tell--they present this version to OLC during January's meeting.

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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 11 Jan 2023 19:19

This project was “supported” by the OLC at yesterdays meeting (second version). Next step-Dallas P&Z, I guess. OLC mentioned the positive impact of revising to all parking underground (6 stories), reducing above ground massing (height), larger setbacks, redesigning ingress/egress to focus more on US-75 access road, increase in size of “park-like” area.

Apartment tower reduced from 440’ to 399’(291 units ~35 story), Office tower reduced from 350’ to 289’ (~17 stories), and Senior Living tower reduced from 272’ to 260’ ~21 stories). For reference, Nove at Knox is 230’. The proposed MSD/TC project at Knox and Travis highest tower is also 399’.

I’m not smart enough to grab the revised images from Google docs, so I have these two lame images. Sr Living (pink) and Office (blue) buildings are on NCX frontage road @ Armstrong. Apt tower (yellow) is at SE corner of McKinney Ave/Armstrong. Biggest revision impact is that Office tower is now shortened (original had 11 stories of garage above ground) enough to basically block its views of DT Dallas by the Sr Living tower. It will still view East Dallas and Oaklawn/Turtle Creek, for now!
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scott2
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby scott2 » 14 Jan 2023 10:10

I am confused. There are two threads that seem to be discussing the same project. One titled Knox District MSD Capital and this one titled Knox District: Knox Promenade. Are these two separate projects or the same?

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OrangeMike
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby OrangeMike » 14 Jan 2023 13:00

scott2 wrote:I am confused. There are two threads that seem to be discussing the same project. One titled Knox District MSD Capital and this one titled Knox District: Knox Promenade. Are these two separate projects or the same?


The MSD Capital development is being built at Knox and Travis.

This project, Knox Promenade, is an apartment tower proposed at McKinney and Armstrong with an office building and senior housing behind it on the access road to Central.

LongonBigD
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 14 Jan 2023 16:54

Two separate developers with two separate projects totaling six new towers (three buildings for each development) about three blocks apart from each other. When both are completed, there will be two new apt towers, two new office bldgs, a new Sr Living tower, and a new condo/hotel tower added to Knox District. They are somewhat similar in size in that the tallest tower in each development will be approx 399’ tall (~30-35 stories). Both developments are mixed use with retail/restaurant at the ground floor.

I like to think of them as bookends for the Knox District. The MSD Capital project (Knox @ Travis) has already started construction. The Knox Promenade project (McKinney @ Armstrong) is in the approval process. They have OLC approval but still need City of Dallas approval next.

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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 14 Feb 2023 14:55

I was coming home the other day, needed to drop something off at UPS Store in existing center. Pulled in at Armstrong, not a single parking space available all the way down to Ed Kellum nor in their lot across the alley. Drove home, parked my car and walked back up to UPS Store.

With each iteration of this new development plan there is less total sq footage dedicated to retail than before. I don’t get it. Retail here is successful, but knocking it down anyway.

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R1070
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby R1070 » 14 Feb 2023 15:28

This is a project I don't care if it gets built.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 14 Feb 2023 17:52

LongonBigD wrote:With each iteration of this new development plan there is less total sq footage dedicated to retail than before. I don’t get it. Retail here is successful, but knocking it down anyway.


It usually comes down to what use can generate the most net income.

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Re: Knox District: Knox Promenade - ~25/~20/~15 stories

Postby LongonBigD » 08 Sep 2023 13:25

The space at 4438 McKinney Ave (between Origin Kitchen and Doce Mesas) lists a new tenant coming soon—Sitka.
IMG_2777.jpeg


Curious if this will be a pop-up or long term. If long term, what does this say about the proposed Knox Promenade redevelopment moving forward since this building was to be scraped for the new towers.

This is an outdoor equipment brand currently sold in Orvis stores. http://www.sitkagear.com.
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