Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I know there's a lot of hype in the real estate world, but this one looks more likely to be built than some of the other recent announcements. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it has a nice architectural flair about it. JMO.

rono3849 wrote:dallas.Gateway.towers.North.view.jpg

The background of this one got Dallas looking like Mega City One from Dredd.

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:

rono3849 wrote:dallas.Gateway.towers.North.view.jpg

The background of this one got Dallas looking like Mega City One from Dredd.

S/O for Judge Dredd Reference.. +100 pts

rono3849 wrote:Hopefully, it may spur some of the proposed developments on the Eastside of Downtown to proceed off of paper into reality.

Does this one seem too remote from EQ to have much synergy there? I don’t see any real pedestrian or automotive connectivity. The DART tracks are in the way. No access to Carpenter Park. I think this one does more to bring critical mass to the Arts District, along with 2000 Ross, and pull some Uptown panache into Downtown.

^correct, but it helps draw traffic from Arts District to Deep Ellum and back and forth cause Maple/Routh goes from Love Field all the way through the gaybourhood, Turtle Creek/Uptown, then on to Arts District large blank space and then finally Deep Ellum. This feels like the seed development to make that one continuous journey through several very different atmospheres and active neighborhoods. Is it all walkable yet no but it can be with projects like this picking up the slack.

willyk wrote:[...]and pull some Uptown panache into Downtown.

+100 pts for using "panache"

rono3849 wrote:dallas.Gateway.towers.North.view.jpg

I know there's a lot of hype in the real estate world, but this one looks more likely to be built than some of the other recent announcements. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but it has a nice architectural flair about it. JMO.

I have confidence here. Mainly because it's not a local developer.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:^correct, but it helps draw traffic from Arts District to Deep Ellum and back and forth cause Maple/Routh goes from Love Field all the way through the gaybourhood, Turtle Creek/Uptown, then on to Arts District large blank space and then finally Deep Ellum. This feels like the seed development to make that one continuous journey through several very different atmospheres and active neighborhoods. Is it all walkable yet no but it can be with projects like this picking up the slack.

That's true. I used to walk down this street from Uptown to Deep Ellum and it would be great to see this part of Downtown fill in to not make the walk feel so sparse.

It still wouldn't be a great walk given that you have to pass a DART rail line and two highways, but this will still be an improvement.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:^correct, but it helps draw traffic from Arts District to Deep Ellum and back and forth cause Maple/Routh goes from Love Field all the way through the gaybourhood, Turtle Creek/Uptown, then on to Arts District large blank space and then finally Deep Ellum. This feels like the seed development to make that one continuous journey through several very different atmospheres and active neighborhoods. Is it all walkable yet no but it can be with projects like this picking up the slack.

I think that’s a good reason to call it a Gateway, along with it being the Ross Ave gateway into downtown. It’s at pivot point between several neighborhoods, which is why I think the site was an astute selection by Portman. It’s really a more interesting site than the Field Street sites. It does not have the freeway visibility that those sites have, but it will be a far more lively place to live or work with its easy access to so many good neighborhoods. I hope it gets built. And maybe it will enable Hall to develop his site on the south side of Ross too.

willyk wrote:

cowboyeagle05 wrote:^correct, but it helps draw traffic from Arts District to Deep Ellum and back and forth cause Maple/Routh goes from Love Field all the way through the gaybourhood, Turtle Creek/Uptown, then on to Arts District large blank space and then finally Deep Ellum. This feels like the seed development to make that one continuous journey through several very different atmospheres and active neighborhoods. Is it all walkable yet no but it can be with projects like this picking up the slack.

I think that’s a good reason to call it a Gateway, along with it being the Ross Ave gateway into downtown. It’s at pivot point between several neighborhoods, which is why I think the site was an astute selection by Portman. It’s really a more interesting site than the Field Street sites. It does not have the freeway visibility that those sites have, but it will be a far more lively place to live or work with its easy access to so many good neighborhoods. I hope it gets built. And maybe it will enable Hall to develop his site on the south side of Ross too.

The tallest tower will be pretty prominent on the Dallas skyline driving down 75 and tower over the rest of the skyline. With the Hall site, the question becomes how tall do they go, because at that point you have to ask whether it's worth it to protect visibility of the keyhole on the top of the Chase Tower. They probably conclude it's not worth pissing people off and go under 40 stories unless they have something really special lined up.

The Maple Routh connection didn't even get built till the mid-80's when the real estate crash was already commencing. And you could probably say the 1983 Sasaki Plan wasn't finally completed until just recently when the Flora lofts lot got filled. So if people ask why this section of downtown has stayed a sea of parking lots for so long after the 1950's when off-street parking construction went into overdrive it's pretty logical and the logical next area to build on.

It does seem like they are banking on this becoming a destination in it's own right initially trying to draw in people to the retail they have planned with the surrounding ample parking and then over time becoming more of part of the fabric of the neighborhood. This area will never be granular urbanism. It will be buildings that take up entire blocks, but I think there's enough unique architecture and interesting spaces to not need that. I love walking through the Arts District even though it's not Jane Jacobs improvised street life. I do hope Portman is able to gain a foothold here and bring in some fresh ideas. That's part of it, that they're more willing to take risks and spend money to try to enter a new market.

Portman Holdings is a very shrewd and successful real estate development firm, with holdings across the country. They wouldn't enter into this market with an aggressive plan unless they thought there was potential for it. The first tower, which appears to be close to 50-stories, will make a statement on the skyline and the two smaller towers, approximately 35-stories & 28-stories each, will complement the first tower. Their style has made them a lot of money, especially in Atlanta. They are using this same business model in Dallas and appear likely to duplicate that success here. This is well planned. Frankly, it makes Hillwood Urban & a couple of other local developers look like amatures.

rono3849 wrote:Portman Holdings is a very shrewd and successful real estate development firm, with holdings across the country. They wouldn't enter into this market with an aggressive plan unless they thought there was potential for it. The first tower, which appears to be close to 50-stories, will make a statement on the skyline and the two smaller towers, approximately 35-stories & 28-stories each, will complement the first tower. Their style has made them a lot of money, especially in Atlanta. They are using this same business model in Dallas and appear likely to duplicate that success here. This is well planned. Frankly, it makes Hillwood Urban & a couple of other local developers look like amatures.

I think it'll be a success, but let's wait until the checks clear first until we declare it a success. Design wise we need more of this, less cookie-cutter off-the-shelf stuff. I think it's a little naïve to think that brand-new to the market outside developers know the local markets better than the local developers. Perhaps it is the case that the local developers are lazy and complacent and too focused on growing the sprawl rather focusing on infill and urban development. The local developers will be in like thieves once they know the potential is there and that there's money to be made.

I've always wanted to see a developer build something like "Brickell City Centre" (maybe a little more walkable) in Downtown Dallas. I truly believe a development like that would be very successful. Hopefully this Portman Project comes kind of close to being an experience like that.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Downtown needs some Brickell style large residential towers if we really want to see a truly thriving downtown.

Dallas needs to do what Miami did and just build high rise residential to a level that created it's own buzz and drove a demand. If you build it, they will come.

Who is gonna write the check for this mindless vertical construction you speak of? It sounds like the usual Mine is a bigger argument that has plagued the urban enthusiasm conversation for decades where height and as many tall towers are the only goals worth pursuing I would gladly take every parking lot with three-4 story residential and office over this obsession with just build 50 stories so we can prove we are better than insert grass is greener city name here...

I have had friends move to Austin, Chicago, and LA, and while they go on about some things those cities have, they also mention to me the things Dallas does right. We ain't perfect, and lord knows I wish this city continued development but mindless development just for the sake of height/large scale sounds like a recipe for disaster equivalent to the 1980's crash Dallas is still trying to recover from. We had plenty of buildings downtown, but we tore them down to build thousands of sqft of office towers without tenants over a theoretical demand that didn't exist. Dallas was a TV drama series with a lot of fake sets and still is when you look at what we built back then.

With that said Portman as long as they build it, and they say they have a lead tenant, will be a great contribution to ground floor life near the Arts District and the whole mine is bigger argument people are hungggg up on will get some stage time as well cause it is scaled rather large.

There's only so many lots to build on within the downtown loop which is why I think they have to think tall. Once the other Spire lot and the Hall lot are filled all you have left in this corner is the Dunlap-Swain with Dart land behind it and then a few odd shaped lots abutting the highway.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Who is gonna write the check for this mindless vertical construction you speak of? It sounds like the usual Mine is a bigger argument that has plagued the urban enthusiasm conversation for decades where height and as many tall towers are the only goals worth pursuing I would gladly take every parking lot with three-4 story residential and office over this obsession with just build 50 stories so we can prove we are better than insert grass is greener city name here...

I have had friends move to Austin, Chicago, and LA, and while they go on about some things those cities have, they also mention to me the things Dallas does right. We ain't perfect, and lord knows I wish this city continued development but mindless development just for the sake of height/large scale sounds like a recipe for disaster equivalent to the 1980's crash Dallas is still trying to recover from. We had plenty of buildings downtown, but we tore them down to build thousands of sqft of office towers without tenants over a theoretical demand that didn't exist. Dallas was a TV drama series with a lot of fake sets and still is when you look at what we built back then.

With that said Portman as long as they build it, and they say they have a lead tenant, will be a great contribution to ground floor life near the Arts District and the whole mine is bigger argument people are hungggg up on will get some stage time as well cause it is scaled rather large.

Portman says they have a lead tenant? Did I miss this or is this insider information you are sharing?

Any word on the status of this development? All discussion has appeared to go cold.

rono3849 wrote:Gateway.towers.dallas.North.view (1).jpg
Any word on the status of this development? All discussion has appeared to go cold.

That's because the groundbreaking isn't set to happen until next Summer (per the earlier article).

There’s been a truck on this site doing core samples or at least that’s what it looks like. This one looks promising, can’t wait for it to get started. This side of downtown is so sleepy.

Drove by this and there’s now a fence around a portion of the property. This one looks promising!

Yes, I saw that yesterday and that block section is where the tallest building is going up. I assume it’s 50-stories.

Expectations have been really low for this one, but this would be awesome to see it happen!!

Went by the location today for the Portman Holdings' development and it appears they are in the initial stages of site preparation for their first tower, which is the 50-story tower. The site is surrounded by a green construction fence. Apparently, Portman's announcement to begin construction in early 2023 is on-schedule and they are moving forward with the project. This one will make a big impact on the skyline if indeed this is a go.

dzh wrote:I've always wanted to see a developer build something like "Brickell City Centre" (maybe a little more walkable) in Downtown Dallas. I truly believe a development like that would be very successful. Hopefully this Portman Project comes kind of close to being an experience like that.

I may be in the minority here, but I think Downtown needs some Brickell style large residential towers if we really want to see a truly thriving downtown.

Portman's website still lists the project this way:

FWIW, I can find no building permit applications yet... I tried all the address ranges for the streets bordering the block...

Tucy wrote:FWIW, I can find no building permit applications yet... I tried all the address ranges for the streets bordering the block...

Very odd. Why would they put up construction walls without plans to build in the immediate future? Perhaps it's in the permitting process with the City of Dallas, which is becoming notoriously difficult to deal with, and they anticipated it being approved within the next few months.

rono3849 wrote:

Tucy wrote:FWIW, I can find no building permit applications yet... I tried all the address ranges for the streets bordering the block...

Very odd. Why would they put up construction walls without plans to build in the immediate future? Perhaps it's in the permitting process with the City of Dallas, which is becoming notoriously difficult to deal with, and they anticipated it being approved within the next few months.

To advertise for pre-leasing...

FWIW, per @undefinedprocess in the discord, this will break ground in May...

I've always had a good feeling about this development. The area has been a prime undeveloped part of Downtown, with great accessibility to Uptown, the Arts District, freeways, Deep Ellum, and the rest of the immediate market. If we see the Isosceles Tower make it out of the ground as well, there will finally be some momentum for the Eastern side of Downtown Dallas. Fingers crossed.

Addison wrote:FWIW, per @undefinedprocess in the discord, this will break ground in May...

We'll see if it changes, but the word I have right now is May...

Were these renderings posted? If so…I guess this post can be ignored

https://www.portman.app/renderings-floo ... s-arts-way

I definitely hadn't seen all those renderings, so thanks for sharing! I don't love the style of the tallest tower but I do absolutely love everything going on at street level; all the pedestrian spaces, the retail, etc. Very exciting!

dallaz wrote:Were these renderings posted? If so…I guess this post can be ignored

https://www.portman.app/renderings-floo ... s-arts-way

Very cool! I love the look, top to bottom. Really hope this comes to fruition as presented.....

This would be such a great addition to the skyline.

I agree with the sentiments above! Love the addition of walkable retail near the Arts Distirct. Hopefully, it’ll add some much needed vibrancy to the Arts District area. Plus the significant amount of residential that’s being added is potentially transformative for the area. Does anyone know if it’s being built all at once or in phases? If it was mentioned, I forgot.

I believe it's being built in phases, but Portman Holdings doesn't play fast and loose with their intentions. I think they are totally committed to this project. The first tower is 50 stories, to be followed by a 35 to 40 story second tower and 25 to 30 second tower.

How tall is the main tower that will be starting in may? Over 500 ft?

Is this development filling up all lots that were previously for the Spire? Or are there some lots of land that weren’t bought by Portman?

potatocoins wrote:Is this development filling up all lots that were previously for the Spire? Or are there some lots of land that weren’t bought by Portman?

Pretty sure the Portman development is only a portion of the Spire holdings.

^You’re right, looks like they bought 5 of the 12 acres:

undefinedprocess wrote:I’ve debated updating it, but haven’t due to the fact that Portman Holdings bought 5 acres from Spire. If I remember correctly (scrolling back in post history will be a pain on mobile right now), I believe the site was roughly 12 acres in total..?

5 of 12 acres is what Steve Brown reported, being a vacant block on Ross. I have always thought he meant the block between Ross and San Jacinto.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... as-towers/

I wonder if a good amount of residential here will breath some new life into Plaza of the Americas.

rono3849 wrote:Portman_Dallas+Gateway.south.view.jpg

I believe it's being built in phases, but Portman Holdings doesn't play fast and loose with their intentions. I think they are totally committed to this project. The first tower is 50 stories, to be followed by a 35 to 40 story second tower and 25 to 30 second tower.

Thanks. I’m so excited about this one!

I’ll eat up a portion of that big parking lot on the east side of Downtown. Next to Chase Tower (2nd pic)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comment ... ame=iossmf










The other pics are bonus

dallaz wrote:Were these renderings posted? If so…I guess this post can be ignored

https://www.portman.app/renderings-floo ... s-arts-way

Nothing new here. Just pointing out that these renderings are gone now too. Lemme find out that the ppl behind these projects are lurking on here

The brochure and renderings can be found here:

https://www.portman.app/dallas-retail

jammin wrote:The brochure and renderings can be found here:

https://www.portman.app/dallas-retail

There was way more but it has been taken down. Ig they were old? I just remembered that I saved them

dallaz wrote:

jammin wrote:The brochure and renderings can be found here:

https://www.portman.app/dallas-retail

There was way more but it has been taken down. At least 16 renderings. Ig those were old? I just remembered that I saved them

The rest of them…

This was just slid on in there like don't mind me. I wonder if they meant to include that:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/cont ... s+Arts.jpg

CTroyMathis wrote:This was just slid on in there like don't mind me. I wonder if they meant to include that:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/cont ... s+Arts.jpg

Trees are always an expected proposal embellishment, but personally I really enjoy the buildings that don't exist and have nothing to do with the development; I'm looking at you, random 5-story office building wedged between Dallas High School and the new apartment building alongside I75. How'd ya get there lil fella? Reckon ya must be lost, git along now