Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

willyk wrote:Been too long since we talked about this one. I have heard so little, I think Spire has given up on their own project. Good time for an East Sider to pick this up and make something happen here.

A group out of Georgia has either closed or is about to close. They are well into the master plan design phase of several towers.

Mods please update this thread to reflect that Portman Residential out of Atlanta now has the site. I don't know what the latest progress report is so I will not cite one but hopefully someone does.

I45Tex wrote:Mods please update this thread to reflect that Portman Residential out of Atlanta now has the site. I don't know what the latest progress report is so I will not cite one but hopefully someone does.

I’ve debated updating it, but haven’t due to the fact that Portman Holdings bought 5 acres from Spire. If I remember correctly (scrolling back in post history will be a pain on mobile right now), I believe the site was roughly 12 acres in total..?
Feel like it’d be appropriate to have a separate thread for it (might already be one). The project’s formal name (Portman) is Dallas Gateway.

If Troy wants to overrule me and rename the thread, that’s fine, but considering we don’t know what will happen to the remaining land that Spire still (ugh) owns, I’m leaving it be for now.

I would also agree to leave it the way it is until something more concrete happens. The sale of the land is good progress but until the project has more news to report I don't see the need to break out the Portman project into its own thread. It has basically one news cycle of articles. Once we get one of those we plan to start in the fall of ... and here is new info on the project round of news then we could start a thread and shift some posts over. Otherwise, this could just quietly disappear like most lofty proposals.

Well, might be time to finally update the thread name! Could have us a 50 story tower soon.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... s-project/

Kelley USA wrote:Well, might be time to finally update the thread name! Could have us a 50 story tower soon.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... s-project/

Oh Wow! Great, I hope some East Coasters can give some Dallas Developers a run for their money!

Kelley USA wrote:Well, might be time to finally update the thread name! Could have us a 50 story tower soon.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... s-project/

That's a significant update, wonder how serious they are?

No mention of a 50-story tower under Atlanta Portman’s website yet, but then it could be updated soon. Hopefully this does happen but I won’t believe it till I see it, we are living in a precarious economy right now.

Steve Brown's once-every-six-months marketing piece. A service he provides to commercial real estate developers.

If you go to the Residential page, they do have the project listed. Click on projects and wait for it to scroll across.

https://portmanresidential.com/#projects

I was thinking when this was first announced that none of the towers were going to be visible over One Arts Plaza when viewed from the north. Jon Anderson over Candy's Dirt once wrote about how not enough thought was put into the skyline impact of One Arts Plaza.

Just putting this here for context so some of y'all can make more sense of this, because I'm lost (Steve Brown ain't helping).
Attached two images to this post. One is the render we got back in December 2021 when this project was first announced. Second is the image/render we got today (also included the screenshot of the project on Portman's site that Kelley USA mentioned).

Split this into its own separate thread. Formerly part of The Spire topic, but since this is the second update on this project we've received (yes, I'm aware it may just be a Steve puff piece, but the new render showing a 50-story mixed-use tower is completely new, so humor me).

Spire thread still exists, and for right now, will continue to be a place for new Spire land sales (they haven't sold all of their land yet; Portman only bought a portion). If/when new projects arise from former Spire land, we'll make sure those get split into new threads as well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't this seem like a pretty sure thing since they announced an anchor tenant for the office building?

"And The Dallas office of Foundry Commercial will lease the 400,000 square foot office tower."

I take it to mean that this is the leasing agent

I45Tex wrote:I take it to mean that this is the leasing agent

Ha! Duh. That makes more sense.

undefinedprocess wrote:Split this into its own separate thread. Formerly part of The Spire topic, but since this is the second update on this project we've received (yes, I'm aware it may just be a Steve puff piece, but the new render showing a 50-story mixed-use tower is completely new, so humor me).

Spire thread still exists, and for right now, will continue to be a place for new Spire land sales (they haven't sold all of their land yet; Portman only bought a portion). If/when new projects arise from former Spire land, we'll make sure those get split into new threads as well.

I have been of the opinion that the best way to get another tall 50 floor tower built in downtown is mixed use.

Tnexster wrote:

undefinedprocess wrote:Split this into its own separate thread. Formerly part of The Spire topic, but since this is the second update on this project we've received (yes, I'm aware it may just be a Steve puff piece, but the new render showing a 50-story mixed-use tower is completely new, so humor me).

Spire thread still exists, and for right now, will continue to be a place for new Spire land sales (they haven't sold all of their land yet; Portman only bought a portion). If/when new projects arise from former Spire land, we'll make sure those get split into new threads as well.

I have been of the opinion that the best way to get another tall 50 floor tower built in downtown is mixed use.

I agree. There just isn't that huge need for office space alone anymore.

Too bad our local developers don’t like to do these more complicated mixed-use towers.

Except Portman is an Atlanta based firm and they have done lots of mixed use projects there.

scott2 wrote:Except Portman is an Atlanta based firm and they have done lots of mixed use projects there.

Indeed. That's the differentiator with this project.

Unfortunately, most out-of-state developers are only interested in going to Austin...

There is a PDF online at a Portman site. Many close-up renderings and a hefty amount of crazed marketing language.

https://www.portman.app > Dallas Gateway

Wow! Very impressive renders, hope it will happen.

DFW wrote:Wow! Very impressive renders, hope it will happen.

I hope so, too. There is a very intriguing sort of deconstructed chapel restaurant space on the corner of Ross and Routh that would be next to the tallest tower. Interesting contrast if built to match the renderings, which I know is often not the case.

OrangeMike wrote:

DFW wrote:Wow! Very impressive renders, hope it will happen.

I hope so, too. There is a very intriguing sort of deconstructed chapel restaurant space on the corner of Ross and Routh that would be next to the tallest tower. Interesting contrast if built to match the renderings, which I know is often not the case.

For some reason, my gut is telling me this one is a go. Portman has deep pockets and they bought this piece of land with the intention of building on it. The DMNews story says that they are targeting mid-2023 to break ground, which means they are buying the material to build the building right now, plus doing all of the preliminary engineering. Despite the economic turmoil we are seeing, it seems like a solid project. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

For some reason, I'm feeling good about this project happening too. I don't know anything about the developer, but they seem like they have a reliable track record and their start date of mid 2023 seems reasonable too.

I suppose the big unknown is how the economy will fare going forward. Given how recently this news was announced, I have to suspect that they knew the economic situation going into this and it's not like they are going to be caught off guard.

I guess we will wait and see what happens. It would be really exciting to see some action in this part of town!

rono3849 wrote:

OrangeMike wrote:

DFW wrote:Wow! Very impressive renders, hope it will happen.

I hope so, too. There is a very intriguing sort of deconstructed chapel restaurant space on the corner of Ross and Routh that would be next to the tallest tower. Interesting contrast if built to match the renderings, which I know is often not the case.

For some reason, my gut is telling me this one is a go. Portman has deep pockets and they bought this piece of land with the intention of building on it. The DMNews story says that they are targeting early 2023 to break ground, which means they are buying the material to build the building right now, plus doing all of the preliminary engineering. Despite the economic turmoil we are seeing, it seems like a solid project. Maybe it's just wishful thinking.

Just to keep the excitement under control, the DMN story says mid-2023, not early 2023.

Wish they listed how tall it will be. Renderings can sometimes be deceptive, but it looks to be 700’ plus maybe around same height as chase tower. I hope so

zblevinz555 wrote:Wish they listed how tall it will be. Renderings can sometimes be deceptive, but it looks to be 700’ plus maybe around same height as chase tower. I hope so

Seems unlikely it would be as tall as Chase Tower. Chase is 55 floors of office. This is only 50 floors and that includes parking, some floors of office and the rest residential. Both parking and residential will generally have significantly shorter floors.

I imagine it will be taller than Amli Fountain Place, so it should be in the 600-700 range.

It will be taller than Hall Arts District for sure but they had preexisting buried parking to build on. Here its all above ground so above-ground parking gets you lots of extra height to get that ego boost many of you want for Downtown by height.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:It will be taller than Hall Arts District for sure but they had preexisting buried parking to build on. Here its all above ground so above-ground parking gets you lots of extra height to get that ego boost many of you want for Downtown by height.

I bet it winds up being taller than any of the buildings in the Hunt/Goldman-Sachs project since that's only going to be 15 to 20 stories now. Heck, the announced Isosceles Tower's 47-story height is taller than anything in the Hunt/G-S development.

While I may have done the comparison with Hall Arts cause Craig Hall was so negative on the Arts District demand for so many years lets not drag GoldmanS/Hunt Realty unconfirmed towers into this thread lol. Portman certainly seems like the Urby developers they rolled in bought land, made an announcement, and got the project started and leased. These out-of-town developers are great they don't pause for applause and quiet reflection.

Yes, I remember Craig Hall being very negative about demand for his Arts District site, hence his small conservative buildings. Seems like a missed opportunity for doing something bigger and grander. On the other hand, Portman’s current plans and scale have grown since they bought the property.

And Craig Hall still has a giant parking lot near this one next to formerly Chase Tower so he could one day launch something of a similar scale. I imagine he will let Portman improve the value of his site and build up his Frisco project long before he considers another phase on the large parking lot he owns across from the Arts District. I just checked DCAD based on lessons I learned from other threads and Craig still owns it and Portman has not bought any more land from Spire yet.

Any rumblings about the Portman Holdings' tower? I know we're in the dead weeks of Summer, but sometimes someone leaks new info...

There were some new more detailed renders in their updated brochure. https://www.portman.app/s/Dallas-Retail ... educed.pdf

Cool. I wish we knew the height

dallaz wrote:Cool. I wish we knew the height

It looks like the tallest tower is 48 to 50 stories & the second tallest is around 30 to 34 stories, while the smallest tower appears to be around 20 to 25 stories.

Love the project. Interesting that they seem to like San Jacinto better than Ross.

Looks like at least 500' which is great. Just wish someone would actually build one of these things. We always seem to get the pretty pics and then a big zero on execution.

Tnexster wrote:Looks like at least 500' which is great. Just wish someone would actually build one of these things. We always seem to get the pretty pics and then a big zero on execution.

Portman Holdings look to be an aggressive real estate company if you look at their online portfolio. This kind of multi-use development is their specialty. Perhaps they are more like Urby Development out of the New York area and will get the dirt moving soon. Hopefully, it may spur some of the proposed developments on the Eastside of Downtown to proceed off of paper into reality.

This looks cool and all but my confidence level is low. Hopefully I'm wrong!

Anyone else feel like Steve Brown lurks around this site. Seems like we post something and then boom an article in the paper the next day

MC_ScattCat wrote:Anyone else feel like Steve Brown lurks around this site. Seems like we post something and then boom an article in the paper the next day

Yep

dallaz wrote:

MC_ScattCat wrote:Anyone else feel like Steve Brown lurks around this site. Seems like we post something and then boom an article in the paper the next day

Yep

Isn’t that what he is supposed to do? Gather information from various sources and share it with the public? Otherwise, it’s just fluff pieces from the developers looking for free publicity. I try to remember that most readers of the DMN aren’t on this forum and SB may be their only source of RE development information.

But to answer your question, “Yes, it does seem like some stories start here and end up there.”

Hi, Steve Brown!

LongonBigD wrote:

dallaz wrote:

MC_ScattCat wrote:Anyone else feel like Steve Brown lurks around this site. Seems like we post something and then boom an article in the paper the next day

Yep

Isn’t that what he is supposed to do? Gather information from various sources and share it with the public? Otherwise, it’s just fluff pieces from the developers looking for free publicity. I try to remember that most readers of the DMN aren’t on this forum and SB may be their only source of RE development information.

But to answer your question, “Yes, it does seem like some stories start here and end up there.”

Never said it was a bad thing, it’s just funny that I wasn’t the only one thinking it.

Just wish his name was a little less boring like Peter Puffingstone