Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 12:48**

Tucy wrote:
DBadger wrote:So far:
Cinepolis
Union
Sky 2
Ascension
Katy tower
Magnolia
Park District
TCC
Bleu Ciel

What is Magnolia?

http://www.vccusa.com/portfolio/multi-f ... a-station/

The project is over 55,000 sf with 60 apartment units. The five story building sits on podium parking structure with two levels below grade cast in place concrete parking structures

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 12:49**

Other residential towers proposed:
- AMLI Residential next to Fountain Place
- Flora & Olive lofts and tower

Redevelopments with residential component:
- The Statler (May 2017?)
- Corrigan Tower (Summer 2017?)
- The Drever (Fall 2018?)

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 12:58**

So WillyK's estimate of 7 residential towers under construction seems to be spot-on:

So far:
Cinepolis
Union
Sky 2
Ascension
Katy tower
Park District
Bleu Ciel
Magnolia is only 5 stories. Not many people would call that a "tower."
TCC is only a proposal.

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 14:01**

Tucy wrote:
DBadger wrote:So far:
Cinepolis
Union
Sky 2
Ascension
Katy tower
Magnolia
Park District
TCC
Bleu Ciel

What is Magnolia?

The Magnolia station project is an addition to the already present historic Magnolia lofts in VP. They're are situated across the Parking Garage for the AAC where Katy trail ends.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/busi ... ment-block

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 14:06**

Tucy wrote:So WillyK's estimate of 7 residential towers under construction seems to be spot-on:

So far:
Cinepolis
Union
Sky 2
Ascension
Katy tower
Park District
Bleu Ciel
Magnolia is only 5 stories. Not many people would call that a "tower."
TCC is only a proposal.

There's more you forgot the brewery building..I believe preliminary work has started on the renovation part.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... tment-redo

Also don't forget M-line tower,case building, the Oliver. Also the city place building will have some apartments with the hotel.

Then there's the McKenzie as well...

Not sure about the Drever but that's another one too.

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 14:35**

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:
Tucy wrote:So WillyK's estimate of 7 residential towers under construction seems to be spot-on:

So far:
Cinepolis
Union
Sky 2
Ascension
Katy tower
Park District
Bleu Ciel
Magnolia is only 5 stories. Not many people would call that a "tower."
TCC is only a proposal.

There's more you forgot the brewery building..I believe preliminary work has started on the renovation part.

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... tment-redo

Also don't forget M-line tower,case building, the Oliver. Also the city place building will have some apartments with the hotel.

Then there's the McKenzie as well...

Indeed there are other residential projects under construction in central Dallas, including quite a number of additional highrises. But the topic posited by Willyk was residential towers in VP/KWP/Harwood.

-- The brewery is not a tower and it is not in the specified area.
-- I believe M-line tower, Case building, the Oliver, the McKenzie, and city place buildings are all in other areas of central Dallas(Knox-Henderson, Deep Ellum, elsewhere in Uptown...)

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 14:53**

^^ With Uptown filling out, I can see vertical density take a huge spark in the Knox-Henderson area, as well as Deep Ellum. I'm hopeful that we will see tall, hopefully a supertall or two, rise in the CBD, and hopefully tall vertical projects in the Cedars, which is just ripe for density development, and without the height restrictions of Uptown!

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 15:57**

joshua.dodd wrote:^^ With Uptown filling out, I can see vertical density take a huge spark in the Knox-Henderson area, as well as Deep Ellum. I'm hopeful that we will see tall, hopefully a supertall or two, rise in the CBD, and hopefully tall vertical projects in the Cedars, which is just ripe for density development, and without the height restrictions of Uptown!

just curious, what is the uptown height restriction at currently?

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 17:04**

Tucy wrote:
-- The brewery is not a tower.

I believe the brewery re-development will include a 15 story residential tower.

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 18:16**

kingpin wrote:
Tucy wrote:
-- The brewery is not a tower.

I believe the brewery re-development will include a 15 story residential tower.

So it does. But the tower is not under construction, is it?

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 19:38**

Tucy wrote:
kingpin wrote:
Tucy wrote:
-- The brewery is not a tower.

I believe the brewery re-development will include a 15 story residential tower.

So it does. But the tower is not under construction, is it?

No not yet. But construction should be starting soon.

Posted: **15 Mar 2017 22:08**

What I am puzzling over is why was the TCC residential tower relegated to phase two?

The competitive towers under construction seem set to deliver in two waves. Soon we will get Sky 2, Ascent, Katy and Blue Ciel. Later will come Cinepolis, Union and Park District. That's a lot of product, and I don't think Dallas has ever had that much hit the market at once. And posters have correctly pointed out that there are others not too far from these seven. I can see where lenders would be cautious.

Do we need to see some uptake from these towers before TCC, Flora and AMLI will start?

Posted: **16 Mar 2017 12:45**

I meant to bring up before about the Olive St. side of the new-construction (garage/hotel/possible res.) part of this whole gig.
From this *video*, the Olive St. side appears to get the blank wall/utility/service treatment. Understandably, Ross Ave. gets a lot of love and with the positioning of the hotel, Harwood St. gets some activity. I can't tell what the last side has in store, but, maybe another service entry?

Anyway, the Olive St. treatment checks with chart for so much of the street. Starting at Elm and let's just head up to and end at Cedar Springs, you have nothing but parking lots, garage entrances, loading docks or drives, blank walls, narrow sidewalks with sometimes crumbling infrastructure and street furniture along it, a highway exit with no yield or stop w/faded diagonal pedestrian crossing, etc. for almost the entirety of this stretch. Sheraton is a mild, brief exception around a couple of entrances across from each other. The tracks/Cancer Survivors Plaza zone has some decent pedestrian activity who are passing through to other places nearby. Klyde Warren Park is an obvious exception, although Olive St. being open through it is another story. McKinney & Olive Tower and intersection is an exception, or will be more of one maybe, when the M&O Tower retail fills in (which they are still not in a hurry to do). The Ritz doesn't appear to be in any hurry to ever open up their fortress wall. The Cedar Springs intersection is bizarro, yet, gets rather good business-hours pedestrian activity at some points throughout the day.

The M-Line runs along so much of this uninteresting stretch of road, too. . . sometimes blocked by the rolling trash can at the Nasher sitting on the tracks, truck drivers not familiar with the service roads around an active and ambient PARK atmosphere between the service roads and blocking the box (and therefore tracks) as they travel on the North side, delivery vehicles parked on the tracks at 2000 McK., and a traffic signal that breaks often at the M & O intersection.

Just preaching to the choir. OK, all the obvious was stated. The plus side is, it still slices through some good stuff, too, fronting the perpendicular streets. Not hard to just walk around the corner and find some good things to do. So there's that.

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 08:13**

A bulldozer is now on site.

Let the digging begin.

Posted: **22 Mar 2017 19:21**

Bye bye ugly Bradford Pears!

Posted: **23 Mar 2017 11:01**

Lots of good stuff on the north side of downtown.

Posted: **27 Mar 2017 19:25**

So if this project is supposed to be a companion of sorts to Trammell Crow Tower, where's the 'connection'? If there is no elevated walkway or tunnel connecting the 2, and 2000 Ross is supposed to be TCC's extra overflow parking as well as for 2000 Ross's own tenants/amenities, is everyone working in or visiting TCC supposed to play Frogger back and forth across Ross (which, the last time I checked, is still a busy street)? I've never heard from any source why the 2 sites are companions when we could very easily talk about 2000 Ross in its own conversation without even mentioning TCC.

I'm not bashing the project...I'm glad we're getting rid of another desolate surface parking lot.

Posted: **27 Mar 2017 22:19**

jrd1964 wrote:So if this project is supposed to be a companion of sorts to Trammell Crow Tower, where's the 'connection'? If there is no elevated walkway or tunnel connecting the 2, and 2000 Ross is supposed to be TCC's extra overflow parking as well as for 2000 Ross's own tenants/amenities, is everyone working in or visiting TCC supposed to play Frogger back and forth across Ross (which, the last time I checked, is still a busy street)? I've never heard from any source why the 2 sites are companions when we could very easily talk about 2000 Ross in its own conversation without even mentioning TCC.

I'm not bashing the project...I'm glad we're getting rid of another desolate surface parking lot.

Thank goodness there's not a tunnel or a bridge!

Posted: **27 Mar 2017 22:56**

Crossing Ross Avenue is really no big deal. I do it twice a day, every day, and never feel unsafe.

Posted: **28 Mar 2017 15:16**

The executives will remain parked in the main garage. The lower level employees will be across the street and the executives up top don't really worry about whether those people have to cross the street once in the morning and evening. Also, I have not heard where they absolutely are not having a tunnel. They never discuss it in the articles. It could still be in the plans. Could be waiting for the final study on the possible costs of either solution underground or above ground to push for those city approvals.

In the meantime no reason to stop all work just to wait on a sky bridge or underground tunnel final approval from the city. Many companies sign leases with caveats for things like this when the property owner has confidence they can get approval. The rate may be a little less without a direct access. Then it's up to the property owners to get the project done to get a better price.

Posted: **30 Mar 2017 13:14**

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... row-center

Posted: **30 Mar 2017 13:15**

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... rict-tower

Posted: **30 Mar 2017 13:36**

dpl-1202 wrote:http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/03/28/investment-firm-civitas-moving-dallas-arts-district-tower

The more I read about the 2000 Ross, the more it sounds like just a parking garage.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 10:41**

lakewoodhobo wrote:
dpl-1202 wrote:http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/03/28/investment-firm-civitas-moving-dallas-arts-district-tower

The more I read about the 2000 Ross, the more it sounds like just a parking garage.

Why is that?

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 11:01**

...no telling what will happen with the residential portion of this one. The hotel, restaurants and parking is to support the skyscraper, nothing else. Maybe a few years pause on the residential component will turn into a larger residential component.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 12:11**

A redevelopment wave is marching up Ross Avenue.
An army of construction workers is descending on the downtown street to transform the longtime office address into a booming boulevard of shops, restaurants, hotel rooms and residences.
For decades one of Dallas' busiest thoroughfares, Ross Avenue won't just be about cars and office towers in a couple of years.
Projects on the way are designed to make the street on the north side of downtown into more of a walkable retail destination.

"In many ways, it's the new Main Street of Dallas," Hall said. "There are a lot of improvements that are going to be made in the next five to 10 years."

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... new-retail

This article is just about general development on Ross, but it also mentions 2000 Ross. A few years ago, I honestly would have thought that, once Uptown started to fill out, we'd see development spillover to Oak Lawn. Pleasantly surprised to see it has gone the other way and spilled over more into Downtown.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 12:14**

I have always wanted to see Ross come to life, finally happening but hope this turns into more development on the ends. One, where Headington has his stake in the ground and the other near 345 (Spire).

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 16:14**

Tnexster wrote:I have always wanted to see Ross come to life, finally happening but hope this turns into more development on the ends. One, where Headington has his stake in the ground and the other near 345 (Spire).

Ross definitely has potential. With the improvements being made on the downtown side and on the other side of the freeway. We may have something here... Imagine if Ross became walkable all the way up to Lower Greenville! What great potential!!

Hopefully the Spire site is sold. Those Developers who own the site don't seem to have any plans to get something done here. It's been a long time since I've heard anything about that project.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 16:46**

Spire is likely waiting until they've got the only land left.... Hopefully they will have a much better masterplan when the time comes.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 19:49**

I take some encouragement from Civitas and Baker Botts choosing the Arts District. Hopefully this signals that all of the investment coming to Ross Ave already puts it on the verge of being a competitive alternative McKinney Ave.

But even with the residential and hotel components coming at AMLI, Flora Street, TCC and Hall, I still don't see Ross Avenue as being as lively as McKinney Ave. The office buildings are scaled too large to ever feel personable. So I see it as a prestige address like Turtle Creek or Park Ave.

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 21:30**

the original design was much nicer in my opinion, what do you guys think?

c8-FINAL by Around My City, on Flickr

vs

Posted: **31 Mar 2017 21:31**

DPatel304 wrote:http://www.dallasnews.com/business/real ... new-retail

This article is just about general development on Ross, but it also mentions 2000 Ross. A few years ago, I honestly would have thought that, once Uptown started to fill out, we'd see development spillover to Oak Lawn. Pleasantly surprised to see it has gone the other way and spilled over more into Downtown.

Three words totally explain the direction of growth/revitalization: Klyde Warren Park

Posted: **01 Apr 2017 10:05**

20170331_163830.jpg

Posted: **01 Apr 2017 16:38**

The lion statues were removed from the Ross Avenue side of Trammell Crow Center today.

And I am not 'lyin' even if it is April Fool's.

Posted: **11 Apr 2017 16:59**

Digging away and it already looks like they've hit the foundations of some of the old structures that used to line Ross and Harwood.

FullSizeRender 25.jpg

Posted: **04 Jun 2017 20:56**

6/4/17

Untitled by Around My City, on Flickr

Posted: **05 Jul 2017 03:22**

Nice... They didn't waste any time getting started. I'm sure by now, support columns are in the ground, with a crane on it's way.

Posted: **05 Jul 2017 14:35**

It really is too bad they aren't putting any part of this development underground. As soon as those foundational columns go in they will be going vertical instantly.

Posted: **05 Jul 2017 21:26**

I really really wish they would go ahead and build the apartment tower now.

Posted: **05 Jul 2017 22:24**

R1070 wrote:I really really wish they would go ahead and build the apartment tower now.

Any ideas when they plan on bringing that forward? Or is this another switch a roo?

Posted: **05 Jul 2017 22:39**

They said a future phase or something.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 08:47**

"The Next Cycle"

The second highrise to go on this pedestal is just as likely to be office space as residential. I'm still waiting for the add-on to Plaza of America parking garage.... ha

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 10:03**

Last I read most of the banks lending to all these residential multi-family projects were ready to stop for a breather. While they agree the market doesn't look like a bubble and that the demand is absorbing the supply nicely they want to let some stuff open and fill up before funding new projects. Whether that's what actually is happening I know not. It's just as possible that as this project builds that the apartment tower could be announced to start sooner rather than later.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 10:32**

^Then they need to find the other banks, otherwise it looks like they're just trying to run-up purchaser price. It's pretty clear demand is greater than delivery. Virtually all 'bubbles' are artificially created when one segment of the process is left unattended.

Maybe it just Dallas/Fort Worth and the shock by regional decision makers at the market rarely seen in which container is not (cannot) expanded a little ahead of the growing contents. The true timeline of this cycle is measured in decades, not biennial budgets.

The pensive, anxious tracking today of a Victory Park flood of expensive apartments will turn into an exercise of justifiable extreme caution.

2000 Ross ought to have the residential component sooner rather than later.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 11:18**

tamtagon wrote:^Then they need to find the other banks, otherwise it looks like they're just trying to run-up purchaser price. It's pretty clear demand is greater than delivery. Virtually all 'bubbles' are artificially created when one segment of the process is left unattended.

According to CBRE, in the first quarter of this year, the market absorbed 55% of the units delivered -- 3,934/7,163. "With the arrival of these deliveries, occupancy has slumped under 95.0% for the first time since Q1 2015. Properties in lease-up continue to offer concessions including one-month of free rent." Starting with the first quarter of 2012, absorptions have exceeded deliveries in only two out of 21 quarters. And another 27,689 units are under construction.

No cause for overbuild panic, but some caution is understandable.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 12:38**

Mind you what I read was one article in the Dallas Morning News so I doubt the banks are colluding that tightly lol.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 12:49**

Tucy wrote:
tamtagon wrote:^Then they need to find the other banks, otherwise it looks like they're just trying to run-up purchaser price. It's pretty clear demand is greater than delivery. Virtually all 'bubbles' are artificially created when one segment of the process is left unattended.

According to CBRE, in the first quarter of this year, the market absorbed 55% of the units delivered -- 3,934/7,163. "With the arrival of these deliveries, occupancy has slumped under 95.0% for the first time since Q1 2015. Properties in lease-up continue to offer concessions including one-month of free rent." Starting with the first quarter of 2012, absorptions have exceeded deliveries in only two out of 21 quarters. And another 27,689 units are under construction.

No cause for overbuild panic, but some caution is understandable.

In the case of overbuild concern, a more appropriate quite is:

tamtagon wrote:The true timeline of this cycle is measured in decades, not biennial budgets.

When North Texas population and employment growth slow down, then construction should too. Look across 7-10 years to smooth out the highs and the lows.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 15:30**

Tucy wrote:According to CBRE, in the first quarter of this year, the market absorbed 55% of the units delivered -- 3,934/7,163. "With the arrival of these deliveries, occupancy has slumped under 95.0% for the first time since Q1 2015. Properties in lease-up continue to offer concessions including one-month of free rent." Starting with the first quarter of 2012, absorptions have exceeded deliveries in only two out of 21 quarters. And another 27,689 units are under construction.

^^^^^^^
Not the latest data.

Here is the latest second quarter 2017 numbers which blow past first quarter results:

D-FW apartment leasing at the highest level in more than a decade
By Steve Brown, Dallas Morning News, June 29, 2017

The booming local economy propelled second-quarter Dallas-Fort Worth apartment leasing to the highest level in more than a decade.

Net apartment leasing for the last three months totaled 11,311 units — the strongest quarterly performance since 2005, according to preliminary statistics from Richardson-based RealPage, which makes software for managing residential and commercial property leasing.

Apartment demand was strong enough to easily outpace the 7,086 new rental units coming on the market in the second quarter.

"Rapid economic expansion is helping fuel demand that's keeping pace with the big block of deliveries," said RealPage chief economist Greg Willett. "Existing product is jam-packed full, so virtually all the vacancies that exist are in the new supply moving through initial leasing."

The surge in second-quarter leasing pushed D-FW apartment occupancy to almost 96 percent — an increase from both the first quarter and a year earlier, according to RealPage.

Average North Texas apartment rents rose by more than 5 percent to a record $1,082 a month.

Full article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/06/29/d-fw-apartment-leasing-highest-level-decade

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 15:39**

I'm a little surprised they aren't going forward with the residential tower. Maybe they will change their minds before too long. Downtown seems ripe for more residential options.

Posted: **06 Jul 2017 16:08**

Cord1936 wrote:
Tucy wrote:According to CBRE, in the first quarter of this year, the market absorbed 55% of the units delivered -- 3,934/7,163. "With the arrival of these deliveries, occupancy has slumped under 95.0% for the first time since Q1 2015. Properties in lease-up continue to offer concessions including one-month of free rent." Starting with the first quarter of 2012, absorptions have exceeded deliveries in only two out of 21 quarters. And another 27,689 units are under construction.

^^^^^^^
Not the latest data.

Here is the latest second quarter 2017 numbers which blow past first quarter results:

D-FW apartment leasing at the highest level in more than a decade
By Steve Brown, Dallas Morning News, June 29, 2017

The booming local economy propelled second-quarter Dallas-Fort Worth apartment leasing to the highest level in more than a decade.

Net apartment leasing for the last three months totaled 11,311 units — the strongest quarterly performance since 2005, according to preliminary statistics from Richardson-based RealPage, which makes software for managing residential and commercial property leasing.

Apartment demand was strong enough to easily outpace the 7,086 new rental units coming on the market in the second quarter.

"Rapid economic expansion is helping fuel demand that's keeping pace with the big block of deliveries," said RealPage chief economist Greg Willett. "Existing product is jam-packed full, so virtually all the vacancies that exist are in the new supply moving through initial leasing."

The surge in second-quarter leasing pushed D-FW apartment occupancy to almost 96 percent — an increase from both the first quarter and a year earlier, according to RealPage.

Average North Texas apartment rents rose by more than 5 percent to a record $1,082 a month.

Full article: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/06/29/d-fw-apartment-leasing-highest-level-decade

Wow! It will be interesting to see how CBRE's 2nd quarter numbers compare.

EDIT: I just looked at Steve Brown's/RealPage's 1st quarter report. There seems to be something funky with their numbers. They showed negative absorption of 129 units in the first quarter, followed by the 11,311 positive absorption in the second quarter. So for the first half they show 11,182 units absorbed and 14,148 completed. We're still building them faster than we're renting them. https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2017/03/30/higher-rents-bite-d-fw-apartment-residents-first-quarter

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Downtown Dallas: 2000 Ross Project

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