Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

It’s Dallas. Cars first, people second. lol

Interesting that 2200 Pacific, only a few blocks ago was approved for a much greater height.

Work Schedule: 01/01/2022 to 12/31/2023
Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: 2200 Pacific Tower

Site Elevation: 458
Structure Height: 830
Total Height (AMSL): 1288


https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 15&row=475
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 18&row=476
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 19&row=477

Tnexster wrote:Hmm, why is there a car between the towers? Is that some kind of street?

I’m not sure! It looks like a car valet. Hard to say without a proper diagram.
But the existing developments have an alley there. So its not completely out of place.
Converting an existing alley into a car valet, is far less insulting than other designs.

Is the taller tower 545 feet?

Removed that from the thread title. Seems as though that height number was for the other site mentioned in the EQ thread.

CTroyMathis wrote:Removed that from the thread title. Seems as though that height number was for the other site mentioned in the EQ thread.

Thank god. I would of thrown up if the tallest tower was 545 feet

zblevinz555 wrote:

CTroyMathis wrote:Removed that from the thread title. Seems as though that height number was for the other site mentioned in the EQ thread.

Thank god. I would of thrown up if the tallest tower was 545 feet

It did say it was 42 stories so the number is not too far off.
but yes the 500+ feet was from another proposed tower nearby

So are these two towers the ones people are referring to? All of these East Downtown proposed developments are getting confusing to keep seperated.

rono3849 wrote:Dallas.Eastside.Tower.jpeg

So are these two towers the ones people are referring to? All of these East Downtown proposed developments are getting confusing to keep seperated.

For this specific thread, yes. The tallest is 42 stories.
The admin/mods wisely separated them from the East Quarter thread because all this development in the area is confusing sometimes. Talk about an embarrassment of riches Also since they are near the East Quarter but not inside it, its better for its own thread.

This one has fallen off the radar. Any news or rumblings about its status? Hoping these towers will eventually sprout out of the vast concrete wasteland of East Downtown Dallas' parking lots.

rono3849 wrote:Dallas.Eastside.Tower.jpeg

This one has fallen off the radar. Any news or rumblings about its status? Hoping these towers will eventually sprout out of the vast concrete wasteland of East Downtown Dallas' parking lots.

I've been keeping an eye out for anything regarding these, and sadly, I've seen nothing. It's a 42RealEstate project, correct? Can't remember off the top of my head right now, but I believe so, and I've previously perused their sites for anything regarding this and nope, nada.

I hope we get some news about these soon, because these would be a great addition to the area. EQ with Harwood & Carpenter Park. Isosceles, the potential 500-ish foot residential tower in the EQ, 300 Pearl, etc. Proximity to The Epic. This could really turn into an active pocket of Downtown with these things going up. Fingers crossed. Toes too. Can't cross my eyes, but I'm trying.

All the towers on this side of glass and steel are being pushed by East Quarter connected developers. They are all hoping the Deep Ellum rush will produce enough demand to make their projects marketable but when you have so much damage being done to Deep Ellum with the nightlife I am not sure Deep Ellum is no longer functioning as a asset but a liability. I mean big new construction like these kinds of towers happens near 6th street in Austin but Deep Ellum never seems to be able to balance out. Its always too busy for its own good or dead as a doornail. Deep Ellum hope is a epic tale that has gone one for ages.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:All the towers on this side of glass and steel are being pushed by East Quarter connected developers. They are all hoping the Deep Ellum rush will produce enough demand to make their projects marketable but when you have so much damage being done to Deep Ellum with the nightlife I am not sure Deep Ellum is no longer functioning as a asset but a liability. I mean big new construction like these kinds of towers happens near 6th street in Austin but Deep Ellum never seems to be able to balance out. Its always too busy for its own good or dead as a doornail. Deep Ellum hope is a epic tale that has gone one for ages.

Austin's Downtown has a much smaller footprint, but they have a huge employer right next to it, the state capital. The street grid of Downtown Austin is such that a lot of the new towers are right next to each other. If 6th Street's violence continues, the growth will persist. If Deep Ellum's violence persists, people will migrate elsewhere. I might add that Austin's crime rate & violence has escalated much more than Dallas' is due to their "de-fund the police" policy that has created a mass exodus from their police department & surge in violent crime rates. Austin has real problems right now. They don't even want you to call 911 because they can't handle the requests for help.

I’m just not seeing that that will be significant demand for office space in or near downtown. The market just doesn’t seem to be there. Users like Goldman Sachs are simply moving from one building to another. Dallas has not done enough to create a compelling draw for office users downtown. It’s economic development game is just in shambles and there doesn’t seem to be any real vision or cohesion of efforts and resources to stem the tide of office development and relocations in and to the suburbs. Seems like everyday some major development is announced in the suburbs. Hell, even Arlington is now planning to build huge hotels, convention space, etc. where is the strategic plan and political support and vision to change the game in Dallas? Mature cities of the 21st century take the reigns by the horns and make stuff happen. Plans for the convention center should’ve been approved and built 10 years ago. Dallas is way too far behind the curve. In some respects, even Houston has created an environment that consists of a larger and more compelling, redeveloped core.

Hwulivn wrote:I’m just not seeing that that will be significant demand for office space in or near downtown. The market just doesn’t seem to be there. Users like Goldman Sachs are simply moving from one building to another. Dallas has not done enough to create a compelling draw for office users downtown. It’s economic development game is just in shambles and there doesn’t seem to be any real vision or cohesion of efforts and resources to stem the tide of office development and relocations in and to the suburbs. Seems like everyday some major development is announced in the suburbs. Hell, even Arlington is now planning to build huge hotels, convention space, etc. where is the strategic plan and political support and vision to change the game in Dallas? Mature cities of the 21st century take the reigns by the horns and make stuff happen. Plans for the convention center should’ve been approved and built 10 years ago. Dallas is way too far behind the curve. In some respects, even Houston has created an environment that consists of a larger and more compelling, redeveloped core.

Driving through Downtown Dallas is very depressing. It's not a "destination" by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, AT&T's new plaza, Klyde Warren Park, the Museum District are great starts, but the core of Downtown is ugly & deserted.

Y'all be careful about how you respond in general on this. The progress of the CBD is obviously a topic lots of people are passionate about. I am skeptical myself because I have been on this forum since high school and seen years of cheerleading myself and I am certainly not saying anyone cant have an opinion good or bad but no one should take any of the comments said about Downtowns lack of progress personally.

There are plenty of things to be excited about but there is some realistic issues we usually discuss at length on the Downtown Progress thread, not this thread about one theoretical high rise that we have limited background on.

Most of you don't have any idea what you are talking about. Seriously. I'm almost 50 and I remember a time when downtown looked like a "Ghost Town' all the time.
We have come a long way and I have been very impressed with the street level activity/vibrancy.
Downtown Dallas still is still a work in progress. Some parts look a little deserted but overall, the city is improving in all areas.

It’s changed so much in the last 10 years. There’s a lot of potential for downtown to keep going.

Urbancowboy wrote:Most of you don't have any idea what you are talking about. Seriously. I'm almost 50 and I remember a time when downtown looked like a "Ghost Town' all the time.
We have come a long way and I have been very impressed with the street level activity/vibrancy.
Downtown Dallas still is still a work in progress. Some parts look a little deserted but overall, the city is improving in all areas.

It used to be a graffiti artists heaven because of how dead it was!!

I'm 69 and I remember when Downtown was vibrant. Sanger Harris's store was a magnet for activity, while both Titche's and Neiman's were also active.

Movie theaters were also in operation. The Majestic, Capri, Tower, & Palace all had big business.

The Adolphus, Baker, & Fairmont Hotels were big draws, along with the Statler Hilton & Sheraton. A lot of people were on the streets around those hotels.

There were several clubs in the towers that drew traffic, along with restaurants with views. The Underground Dallas tunnels also had a lot of people in them. Those were the days.

Downtown Dallas in the running for multiple big relocations, expansions

Will you quantify what’s in the business development pipeline in terms of possible relocations or expansions into downtown Dallas?

There are multiple 50,000- to 100,000- to even 200,000-square-foot deals that are circling in our market right now. We have development interest from mixed-use developers in other markets who are looking at significant parcels in the downtown. We have 86 acres of developable land in our downtown which is unlike any other major city in the country, so the attractiveness to be able to come in and either build new and build new districts like what we'll see in the Field Street District or come in to some of our beautiful towers and backfill space at an affordable rate in Class A property positions us really well in addition to all of the external factors that would draw someone to the market. We're definitely seeing the fruits of that.



https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... rrett.html

@rono3849 I wish I could've experienced that. I keep watching the old wfaa footage on YouTube (SMU Jones Film channel). The funny thing is that I still see a lot of the same surface lots even then in the early 70s.

Has anything been proposed for the last 4 blocks of surface parking on the north side of Elm street between Harwood and 345? With everything going on over there these 4 lots are really becoming the hole in the doughnut.

I was thinking the same thing. I assume the completion of Carpenter Park will help create more interest in these lots as well.

R1070 wrote:I was thinking the same thing. I assume the completion of Carpenter Park will help create more interest in these lots as well.

The East side of Downtown Dallas has been a vast wasteland for decades. The city allowed a lot of its history be leveled & turned into the asphalt jungle. It would be great to see it developed in the coming years. Hopefully, the development will be smart and somewhat coordinated. I fear Carpenter Park will become a homeless magnet once it opens. Some of the area is already attracting them, which makes for a hostile environment for families.

R1070 wrote:I was thinking the same thing. I assume the completion of Carpenter Park will help create more interest in these lots as well.

Yes, agree, Carpenter, Galbraith, 300 Pearl…they are all pointing here. Who owns these lots? Does anyone know? Hoping some good developers already have them.

You can always check DCAD to see who in on record but I wouldn't expect to see many names you recognize.

RodB wrote:Interesting that 2200 Pacific, only a few blocks ago was approved for a much greater height.

Work Schedule: 01/01/2022 to 12/31/2023
Structure Type: Building
Structure Name: 2200 Pacific Tower

Site Elevation: 458
Structure Height: 830
Total Height (AMSL): 1288


https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 15&row=475
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 18&row=476
https://oeaaa.faa.gov/oeaaa/external/se ... 19&row=477

No building has ever been announced for this location, so I think the owner of the land wanted to assure the possible height of a future development would be established.

1288 feet would be impressive. I Hope a tall building gets built on this site.

Urbancowboy wrote:1288 feet would be impressive. I Hope a tall building gets built on this site.

FYI, the 1,288 is 1,288 feet above mean sea level, not an actual 1,300 foot structure haha, but yes, anything with that height over here would be 1) incredible for density and the mix of uses a building of this size would contain, and 2) amazing for height/skyline addition.

In all seriousness though, I would love to see 2200 Pacific have something proposed, even if just renders, sooner than later, that way, there's clear intent to build on the site.

And secondly, I really really really would love to see the two towers that this thread is dedicated to go up ASAP. Hope 42 Real Estate can somehow, some way pull this off. East side is slowly turning into one of the best parts of downtown (within the highway loop), and this would take that to new heights (literally and figuratively).

We need to get more of these smaller East Quarter lots filled in and that will create a demand for more height in these remaining east end lots. I also imagine the surface lot behind the old Dallas High School development that faces Carpenter Park will get developed as well.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:You can always check DCAD to see who in on record but I wouldn't expect to see many names you recognize.

I think the nature of the opportunity would be apparent. The natural flow between Uptown on the north and EQ/DFM on the south is already there, running through Harwood, Olive and Pearl. These four blocks are right in the middle of it.

Any word on the street concerning Roherman's proposed twin towers on the Eastern side of Downtown Dallas? I know he's an outlier from the rest of the developers in Dallas, but I was hoping his independent strategies might work. He certainly has an obtainable goal by attracting a hotel, decent size office space commitment, and condo/apartment management. I'd love to see this add some momentum to the Eastern flank of Downtown.

rono3849 wrote:roherman.towers.dallas.eastside.jpeg

Any word on the street concerning Roherman's proposed twin towers on the Eastern side of Downtown Dallas? I know he's an outlier from the rest of the developers in Dallas, but I was hoping his independent strategies might work. He certainly has an obtainable goal by attracting a hotel, decent size office space commitment, and condo/apartment management. I'd love to see this add some momentum to the Eastern flank of Downtown.

There are so many layers to this project for it to come to fruition I think there’d be at least 5 Steve brown puff piece update articles on this project before dirt flies. I think the odds are bleak that it happens, but hey, I don’t think he bought those parcels to just sit on em

It's a great looking project in what is becoming a more desirable part of downtown, but yeah, who's going to be leasing this project?

If Austin follows the past, it'll cool off for a few years pretty soon.... Maybe that's when the high profile technology office construction will swing to Downtown Dallas for while. Get some more decision makers downtown! At least the city is turning into a place to live.

Finance and lawyers on the west side of downtown, that pattern continues, now we have The Cedars, Deep Ellum and Oak Cliff to appeal to the techies.

eburress wrote:It's a great looking project in what is becoming a more desirable part of downtown, but yeah, who's going to be leasing this project?

Well, The Stack, which is just few blocks away, has basically filled up rapidly in what is a difficult leasing environment Downtown. Deep Ellum, which is a hot housing market is across the freeway. I think the office space and housing aspects of this development are easily obtainable. Additionally, I've got to believe a hotelier would like this location because it's close to Deep Ellum and you can jump on Central and access Uptown quickly. Frankly, I think this development has so much to offer. I hope Rohrman is able to build these towers. It would really be the shot in the arm for East Downtown Dallas.

eburress wrote:It's a great looking project in what is becoming a more desirable part of downtown, but yeah, who's going to be leasing this project?

Looks like the EQ historic buildings are leasing up OK. How is the leasing going at 300’Pearl—anyone?

I'll be happy to see those little surface lots around there filled with anything urban whether it's high rise or not.

Not much news on this one, but sometimes silence can bring about surprise announcements.

Fountain Place Lite? No, FMC and Cira Centre
http://www.fmctower.com/mobile/images/about_bg.jpg

rono3849 wrote:roherman.tower.2.jpeg

Not much news on this one, but sometimes silence can bring about surprise announcements.

Do you know something we dont?

FWIW, it appears The Stack, just a few blocks away, is about 53% occupied. From its website, it appears the developer has never undertaken a project remotely similar to this. Further, the lack of semi-annual puff pieces by Steve Brown does not bode well. Taken together, all of that suggests this is probably not happening.

I went to the developer's web site and the towers aren't posted there. I guess they've decided to move on.

Can someone give me a satellite view of where these two towers would be located relative to the isosceles 47 story tower?

Tucy wrote:FWIW, it appears The Stack, just a few blocks away, is about 53% occupied. From its website, it appears the developer has never undertaken a project remotely similar to this. Further, the lack of semi-annual puff pieces by Steve Brown does not bode well. Taken together, all of that suggests this is probably not happening.

I thought The Stack was 100% leased now thanks to The Richards Group lease? I don't know if they're moved in yet or not however.

dzh wrote:

Tucy wrote:FWIW, it appears The Stack, just a few blocks away, is about 53% occupied. From its website, it appears the developer has never undertaken a project remotely similar to this. Further, the lack of semi-annual puff pieces by Steve Brown does not bode well. Taken together, all of that suggests this is probably not happening.

I thought The Stack was 100% leased now thanks to The Richards Group lease? I don't know if they're moved in yet or not however.

It appears you are correct. The sources I looked at apparently hadn't been updated (unless one or more of the tenants are offering space for sublease). I stand corrected.

Nevertheless, the overall point stands. This project seems unlikely.