Downtown Dallas (Eastside): 2 mixed-use towers

User avatar
rickbansal
Posts: 66
Joined: 22 Jan 2019 07:06

Downtown Dallas (Eastside): 2 mixed-use towers

Postby rickbansal » 16 Jul 2021 08:07

Image

Looks like a new mixed-use development with a 42-story tower for the east side of downtown (Elm and N. Pearl) is being proposed. Design looks better than the options presented by Hillwood and others...

I think there is way too much chatter and at least one of the various proposed projects will kick-off soon.

Story is in DMN
Last edited by rickbansal on 16 Jul 2021 17:46, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 2094
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 16 Jul 2021 08:19

Story:
The race to build the next downtown Dallas skyscraper is heating up.

A handful of developers have been pitching plans for new office towers in Dallas’ central business district.

Now developer and investor Scott Rohrman is putting forth his idea for a 42-story high-rise project on downtown’s east side.

The complex would include a combination of uses in two towers. The buildings would have about 200,000 square feet of offices, 250 hotel rooms and 224 apartments. There would be ground-floor retail space, too.

“We are not going to go build it speculative-basis,” Rohrman said. “But we are going to put our name in the hat for office users.

“We are looking to have preleasing on the tower or secure a capital source that would want to do a speculative building.”

Designed by Dallas’ The Beck Group, the skyscraper would take up most of the block at Elm and North Pearl streets near Interstate 345. Two small buildings and surface parking now occupy the site.

“We did 11 transactions to tie all this property up,” Rohrman said.

The development site is at one of the gateways to downtown and within a few blocks of four of the central business district’s new parks.

“What we want to do is build something iconic — something that anchors the area,” Rohrman said. “As you are driving down the freeway where it curves, your vision of this property here is much better.”

The skyscraper would be the tallest on the eastern edge of downtown — an area that is seeing rapid redevelopment.

Rohrman began buying small buildings and parking lots in the area several years ago and has sites on five blocks. His holdings include the more than century-old former Masonic and Western Union building on Main Street and the new SOVA Hotel building on Commerce Street.

“When we started buying here years ago, it was the forgotten area of downtown,” he said. “We just bought it because we like it.

“We really believe in the east side of downtown Dallas.”

The downtown neighborhood is now home to the big East Quarter redevelopment. And just across the freeway in Deep Ellum, there’s the new Epic office, hotel, residential and retail development.

Two new green spaces — Harwood Park and Carpenter Park — are in the works in the area.

Rohrman has a track record of buying undervalued real estate in up-and-coming neighborhoods. His 42 Real Estate started purchasing the first of more than 40 properties in Deep Ellum — buildings and vacant sites — almost a decade ago.

In 2017, Rohrman sold most of his Deep Ellum holdings to North Carolina-based Asana Partners. Asana Partners also owns retail space in Victory Park, northwest of downtown.

Since the Deep Ellum sale, Rohrman has been buying real estate on the east side of downtown and along Akard Street in the Cedars neighborhood. “We like properties that are urban and downtown,” he said.

Rohrman and 42 Real Estate’s Benton Payne have been working on plans for the Dallas property.

Rohrman isn’t the only commercial property player eyeing plans for a new downtown Dallas skyscraper.

In May, Ross Perot Jr.’s Hillwood Urban pulled the wraps off designs for a 38-story office tower proposed for the north side of downtown at Woodall Rodgers Freeway and Field Street.

And Dallas businessman and property investor Mike Hoque and his Hoque Global have teamed up with Lanoha Real Estate of Omaha, Neb., to work on plans for a 40-story mixed-use tower on the south side of Dallas City Hall.

Another group that includes Kaizen Development and Woods Capital is pitching plans for a 6-acre project at Field Street and Woodall Rodgers that would include more than 1 million square feet of high-rise offices, apartments, hotel rooms and retail

User avatar
Addison
Posts: 747
Joined: 22 Nov 2020 17:13

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Addison » 16 Jul 2021 08:29

rickbansal wrote:Image

Looks like a new mixed-use development with a 42-story tower for the east side of downtown (Elm and N. Pearl) is being proposed. Design looks better than the options presented by Hillwood and others...

I think there is way too much chatter and at least one of the various proposed projects will kick-off soon.

Story is in DMN


It's interesting this is being announced after the news about Goldman Sachs shopping around for a massive office.

User avatar
potatocoins
Posts: 287
Joined: 18 May 2021 14:01

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby potatocoins » 16 Jul 2021 08:54

I don't like how many supertall towers are in the 'proposed' stage at the moment. I agree, it does seem like at least one of them will come to fruition, but it makes me feel like the rest of them will just sit as being 'proposed' for a while and we're just stuck with the empty land for the time being.

It's a nice looking tower in a good location, but I'd rather see more modest towers breaking ground rather than just waiting year after year for these super tall projects to happen.
Last edited by potatocoins on 16 Jul 2021 09:05, edited 1 time in total.

itsjrd1964
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby itsjrd1964 » 16 Jul 2021 08:58

Would this be the NW or NE corner of Elm/Pearl? Hope this project is a sure thing and doesn't get derailed. More height and less surface parking is needed on that side of the CBD.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 3190
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Jul 2021 09:28

Well putting together all these proposals isn't cheap to do plus in this projects case assembling the land is also costly. Something is out there that's got all these developers throwing renderings out there with serious proposals. For the last few years developers left and right have been proposing some serious high rises in the downtown area and while few have gone vertical It just doesn't seem like there is that tenant they all keep hoping for.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

User avatar
R1070
Posts: 1967
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:00

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby R1070 » 16 Jul 2021 10:25

I like this a lot. Perot needs to go back to one of their previous designs to compete.

User avatar
dd_dweller
Posts: 111
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 10:52

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dd_dweller » 16 Jul 2021 11:23

This tower seems more promising than some of the others. Much thought was given to this design compared to Perots iconic gateway. Mixed used buildings make more sense. Hopefully we see this one get built.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 3190
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Jul 2021 11:36

The problem is Perot is a long time developer and Scott Rohrman is not known for high-rises. The renderings may be flashy and pretty but when you are a multi-million dollar tenant are you going to bet on the developer who has a conservative design but you know will get the high-rise up and built or are you going to bet on the new guy with a more exciting design but you just don know if his company has the experience to build something like that. Most potential tenants on this scale are more likely to bet on the old conservatives developer who built Victory Park as in actually got high-rises built over a new guy. Do we need to remind ourselves of Spire who hasn't been able to attract tenants no matter how many designs they have created for their Art District adjacent land. Spire at least owns some high-rises one of them recently defaulted but they at least have experience owning multiple.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

User avatar
I45Tex
Posts: 896
Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby I45Tex » 16 Jul 2021 12:08

itsjrd1964 wrote:Would this be the NW or NE corner of Elm/Pearl? Hope this project is a sure thing and doesn't get derailed. More height and less surface parking is needed on that side of the CBD.


"would take up most of the block at Elm and North Pearl streets near Interstate 345. Two small buildings and surface parking now occupy the site."

That should be enough for one of us to narrow it down to the answer. Seems like the SE corner is the only block with more than one small building on it.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 3190
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Jul 2021 12:42

4K5FP7WR2VDLVDMIDUF7KXD3WQ.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

User avatar
dallaz
Posts: 768
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 14:50

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dallaz » 16 Jul 2021 12:55

I agree with the comments above…it looks much better than Perot’s building. I wonder what’s the height?

User avatar
clcrash19
Posts: 202
Joined: 23 Oct 2016 23:28

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby clcrash19 » 16 Jul 2021 13:09

Looks close to 700 feet in the rendering at least, maybe 800

User avatar
THRILLHO
Posts: 221
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:20

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby THRILLHO » 16 Jul 2021 13:42

Wish I could find that rendering without the top and bottom cut off. It bugs me when the DMN does that for article headers and doesn't put the full image in a gallery.

Also, just a heads up to the OP, the link is incorrect. It links to an old article about Newpark. Here's the correct link:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2021/07/16/new-skyscraper-eyed-for-downtown-dallas-east-side/

dfwcre8tive
Site Admin
Posts: 286
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 12:47
Location: San Francisco
Contact:

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dfwcre8tive » 16 Jul 2021 13:47

cowboyeagle05 wrote:4K5FP7WR2VDLVDMIDUF7KXD3WQ.jpg


Location: https://goo.gl/maps/BurUgDS7smSUGUkN7

User avatar
dallaz
Posts: 768
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 14:50

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dallaz » 16 Jul 2021 14:23

clcrash19 wrote:Looks close to 700 feet in the rendering at least, maybe 800

Whoa…if so…that’s a big building. By far the best proposed in Dallas so far.

I don’t think it would be hard to find a tenant for 200k sq ft? Right? (I’m not an expert at all) Would that make it easier or more likely for it to start? 300 Pearl has about the same amount of office space.

User avatar
Matt777
Posts: 880
Joined: 28 Oct 2016 09:10

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Matt777 » 16 Jul 2021 17:20

dfwcre8tive wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:4K5FP7WR2VDLVDMIDUF7KXD3WQ.jpg


Location: https://goo.gl/maps/BurUgDS7smSUGUkN7


Isn't the facade of 2121 Main historically protected?

This design looks great, but I hate that it always seems like the full block surface parking lots survive while developers target existing buildings and parks to build on top of. We need zoning reform in Downtown Dallas to discourage the large surface parking lots.

User avatar
R1070
Posts: 1967
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:00

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby R1070 » 16 Jul 2021 17:26

That was my thought too.

User avatar
rickbansal
Posts: 66
Joined: 22 Jan 2019 07:06

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby rickbansal » 16 Jul 2021 17:47

THRILLHO wrote:Wish I could find that rendering without the top and bottom cut off. It bugs me when the DMN does that for article headers and doesn't put the full image in a gallery.

Also, just a heads up to the OP, the link is incorrect. It links to an old article about Newpark. Here's the correct link:
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/real-estate/2021/07/16/new-skyscraper-eyed-for-downtown-dallas-east-side/


Thanks. I updated the original post with the proper URL.

User avatar
rono3849
Posts: 659
Joined: 16 May 2019 23:46
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby rono3849 » 16 Jul 2021 22:46

east.tower.jpg


Took this picture off of TV tonight. At least you can see the top of the building.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
ajderry2017
Posts: 46
Joined: 02 Jul 2020 11:33

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby ajderry2017 » 16 Jul 2021 22:58

Any “proposed” building downtown above 35 stories, not believing anything until I see a crane.

User avatar
DFW
Posts: 119
Joined: 22 Dec 2016 13:00

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby DFW » 16 Jul 2021 23:05

Now that we can see the top of the taller tower we can at least get a better perspective. Since this development is mix-used, the short one is actually the 42-story tower and the taller one is maybe about 50 or up to 60 stories?

User avatar
Kelley USA
Posts: 912
Joined: 27 Oct 2016 12:46

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Kelley USA » 17 Jul 2021 00:40

I zoomed in and counted the taller tower. I basically counted 42 floors for the taller, which means the smaller would be about 30.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 1103
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby eburress » 17 Jul 2021 09:41

rono3849 wrote:east.tower.jpg

Took this picture off of TV tonight. At least you can see the top of the building.

That looks great! Definitely better than anything proposed for that Perot lot. Thanks for sharing!

itsjrd1964
Posts: 1231
Joined: 28 Jul 2018 07:38

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby itsjrd1964 » 17 Jul 2021 11:00

For it to be the SE corner, it'll be a tight fit. There won't be much room with the other buildings (besides the 2 mentioned) remaining in the block.

User avatar
zblevinz555
Posts: 125
Joined: 14 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby zblevinz555 » 17 Jul 2021 13:12

If anyone’s interested here’s a podcast from KRLD with Scott Rohrman talking about the project:

https://www.audacy.com/krld/podcasts/ce ... -557525692

User avatar
I45Tex
Posts: 896
Joined: 26 Jan 2017 05:52

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby I45Tex » 17 Jul 2021 13:15

re: jrd1964, the thinner tower of 30 floors seems to me to stand across the alley from 2121 Main, running parallel to it, and then the 42 tower turns the corner on a deeper site.

User avatar
dallaz
Posts: 768
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 14:50

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dallaz » 17 Jul 2021 18:39

zblevinz555 wrote:If anyone’s interested here’s a podcast from KRLD with Scott Rohrman talking about the project:

https://www.audacy.com/krld/podcasts/ce ... -557525692

Thx for sharing!

User avatar
thedogisnova
Posts: 8
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:32

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby thedogisnova » 17 Jul 2021 19:00

Waiting patiently for a developer to have the guts to produce a rendering with a removed 345.

User avatar
rickbansal
Posts: 66
Joined: 22 Jan 2019 07:06

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby rickbansal » 18 Jul 2021 07:44

zblevinz555 wrote:If anyone’s interested here’s a podcast from KRLD with Scott Rohrman talking about the project:

https://www.audacy.com/krld/podcasts/ce ... -557525692


A great listen. Thanks for sharing. I feel there is a considerable amount of momentum building up (no pun intended) for one or more of these larger projects to kick-off soon.

User avatar
undefinedprocess
Site Admin
Posts: 519
Joined: 05 Jul 2020 05:45
Contact:

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby undefinedprocess » 19 Jul 2021 09:46

Wow, was in Austin all weekend consumed by everything going on down there. This is crazy and would be amazing for the east side. Proximity to Harwood & Carpenter Parks could definitely be a draw for a tenant, plus the EQ & Epic activity nearby. Regardless of if this happens or not, just imagine if THIS had been Hillwood's "iconic gateway" proposal. We probably wouldn't have laughed.

Regardless, would love to see this happen, and damn am I happy that this is mixed-use. More residential over here, as well as hotel space, would be great. 200K doesn't seem like too big of an ask, so hopefully they can land a tenant.

I agree with what others are saying though in regards to tenants potentially being weary about the developer's lack of experience when it comes to high-rises. Hopefully, though, they're "rewarded" for taking a bit of a risk. Here's to hoping this, Field St District, NewPark, KDC/Miyama, and Northend happen somehow, some day, some way...

User avatar
undefinedprocess
Site Admin
Posts: 519
Joined: 05 Jul 2020 05:45
Contact:

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby undefinedprocess » 19 Jul 2021 09:48

Also, just found the full render.
EastSideRender.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Tivo_Kenevil
Posts: 2094
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 12:24

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Jul 2021 09:53

I dig the tower

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 1563
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Tucy » 19 Jul 2021 11:11

clcrash19 wrote:Looks close to 700 feet in the rendering at least, maybe 800


What would make you think that? It seems a 42-story building, most of which is residential and hotel, would likely be less than 650'.

User avatar
THRILLHO
Posts: 221
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:20

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby THRILLHO » 19 Jul 2021 12:15

rono3849 wrote:Took this picture off of TV tonight. At least you can see the top of the building.

undefinedprocess wrote:Also, just found the full render.

Cheers, yall. Thanks for these.

This looks good.

User avatar
Dallas_Uptown
Posts: 99
Joined: 28 Nov 2016 19:26

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Dallas_Uptown » 19 Jul 2021 12:17

thedogisnova wrote:Waiting patiently for a developer to have the guts to produce a rendering with a removed 345.


I've seen road signs promoting an I-345 user survey on the TXDOT website, but I've not found it.

Any ideas? TYIA.

User avatar
Addison
Posts: 747
Joined: 22 Nov 2020 17:13

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Addison » 19 Jul 2021 12:39

Dallas_Uptown wrote:
thedogisnova wrote:Waiting patiently for a developer to have the guts to produce a rendering with a removed 345.


I've seen road signs promoting an I-345 user survey on the TXDOT website, but I've not found it.

Any ideas? TYIA.


Do you mean this?

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/proj ... 11519.html

User avatar
rono3849
Posts: 659
Joined: 16 May 2019 23:46
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby rono3849 » 19 Jul 2021 20:36

roherman.tower.jpeg
undefinedprocess wrote:Also, just found the full render.


Thanks so much for posting this complete photo of Roherman's development. Frankly, these towers are head & shoulders better than Hillwood's boring "gateway" building. I listened to the podcast & was surprised to know that the FCC has limited height on the East end of Downtown now. I remember that Craig Hall had discussed building a 50+ story tower across from his hotel & residential towers in the Arts District about two years ago, but I wonder if those plans have been shelved?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
R1070
Posts: 1967
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 21:00

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby R1070 » 19 Jul 2021 22:00

It looks like the shorter tower could just be a half block, so the older structure along Main at Cesar Chavez could stay.

willyk
Posts: 760
Joined: 18 Oct 2016 20:20

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby willyk » 19 Jul 2021 22:14

Liking the opportunity for connectivity between EMC and EQ. A little bit of high quality streetscape like they did in EQ, or some renovation of the collateral buildings like Good E, and it’s welcome to the neighborhood.

User avatar
quixomniac
Posts: 285
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 21:24

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby quixomniac » 20 Jul 2021 01:18

Dallas_Uptown wrote:I've seen road signs promoting an I-345 user survey on the TXDOT website, but I've not found it.
Any ideas? TYIA.

https://www.txdot.gov/inside-txdot/proj ... 11519.html

In addition to what Addison posted…
We also have a forum thread discussing this more in depth. Where we initially discussed it when it was posted in late June, but it seems now you have until early August to respond

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=361&p=37519#p37519

User avatar
quixomniac
Posts: 285
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 21:24

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby quixomniac » 20 Jul 2021 01:22

undefinedprocess wrote:Also, just found the full render.
EastSideRender.jpeg


Gréât! Someone found the full render! Thanks!
I agree with the overall sentiment, its by far the best new proposed tower complex.
Also…are those vertical led strips? :mrgreen:

Where is the useless plaza that walls it off from the street!?
It’s almost like urban design is possible. Hopefully we learn more details about the tower as it comes forward, perhaps retail/dining? Also hopefully that rooftop garden will be public access :) although wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the first thing dropped.

User avatar
Pinhi
Posts: 38
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 22:33

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Pinhi » 21 Jul 2021 09:48

Too bad something like this couldn't be built on Hillwood's property where there's no height restriction. I mean this would be great on the existing site, but it would be truly iconic and timeless with more height on Hillwood's site.

cowboyeagle05
Posts: 3190
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 08:45
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Jul 2021 11:42

Not sorry, I doubt this project will move past the pretty renderings. Very rarely does a unexperienced developer get the big fish tenants they need to get these projects started. We used to have a thread for projects that never materialized. If I am proven wrong I will gladly admit it however.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

User avatar
dd_dweller
Posts: 111
Joined: 24 Oct 2016 10:52

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby dd_dweller » 21 Jul 2021 14:41

So is this project different from 2200 Pacific that was previously mentioned?


User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 1563
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Tucy » 21 Jul 2021 16:45


User avatar
zblevinz555
Posts: 125
Joined: 14 Apr 2019 19:16

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby zblevinz555 » 21 Jul 2021 16:50

Not saying this will happen, but could you imagine if all the projects proposed from late 2019 starting with the field st district to right now with Scott rohrmans tower and everything in between how drastic our skyline would be. With the amount of towers proposed, it would be like adding another CBD. With that said, not an ounce of dirt has moved. I think it’s safe to say that there are undoubtedly a good number of tenants scoping downtown Dallas. That’s the only silver lining I can come up with.

User avatar
quixomniac
Posts: 285
Joined: 21 Oct 2016 21:24

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby quixomniac » 21 Jul 2021 17:26


Thanks, it’s mixed use, hotel, residential, office.
Given that they are keeping all their options open, it doesn’t seem like a sure thing.
Hillwood’s « Gateway » tower or collection of boxes seems more likely
Anyways, here’s some red meat renderings from the article.
95F18555-617F-445B-8E31-ABFD9CFC656D.jpeg

19F3AF3C-9381-466D-A8DB-88ABDBE133A8.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Tnexster
Posts: 3539
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: East Side Downtown 42-Story Tower Proposed

Postby Tnexster » 22 Jul 2021 13:43

Hmm, why is there a car between the towers? Is that some kind of street?