Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

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I45Tex
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Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 01 Dec 2023 20:50

No near-term public plans forthcoming but the plans are privately underway. I do not think that this would fit on a remaining site in Victory or at the 13 acres where the practice facility sits. I remember that he's bought much more land south of downtown somewhere (I don't mean the 77-acre village of Mustang outside Corsicana, though it sounds more and more like a likely future tourism destination now).

https://frontofficesports.com/blockbust ... spotlight/

and from https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/mark ... in-dallas/


"Could Mavs move to Vegas? Or bring some of Vegas to Dallas?
The Adelson family are the largest shareholders of Las Vegas Sands Corp, a company that owns and runs casinos and resorts in Vegas and internationally.
So it's natural to wonder if this could mean a potential move to Sin City for the Mavericks, especially as the NBA has long been rumored to earmark Las Vegas as a potential location for an expansion team.

But there's several reasons to suggest why that likely won't happen, chief among them this quote from Cuban in the Dallas Morning News back in December 2022: "My goal, and we'd partner with Las Vegas Sands, is when we build a new arena it'll be in the middle of a resort and casino. That's the mission."

Specifically naming Las Vegas Sands shows how long this deal has been in the works, and while Cuban didn't say that he'd want to build a new arena in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, he said earlier this month how he wants to help turn Texas, and specifically Dallas, into a tourist destination:
[paywalled]
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/ent ... stination/

Given that information, and the fact that Cuban has been perhaps the [NBA's] most passionate team owner since he bought the Mavericks in 2000, it's unlikely that he would sell a majority stake to someone who had plans of moving the Mavericks out of Dallas.

Separating the basketball side of things and the business side might've also enticed Cuban, as Stein reports that he is 'determined' to remain an active partner with basketball operations, while 'happily letting' the Adelson's "focus on the pursuit of TV money, real-estate plays for the franchise, their continued efforts to lobby Texas lawmakers to legalize gambling, etc.' "

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/inside ... the-dallas

-- Jasmyn Wimbish, CBSSports

My first thought is that casino gambling in Texas cities is an undeserving option, even if it means a tourist foot traffic and dollar draw to anchor other local businesses. Even if the casino is a "fancy" operation and manages to remain not trashy over time.




Now a research institution says that gaining knowledge matters here in Dallas; a Jerryworld or a national golf hq in Frisco says that in fact you live somewhere where gaining athletic skill is a lifestyle choice that matters; or a Dallas seminary says that around here there's even more to life than gaining respect by gaining impact and getting ahead.

A megacasino has a similar megaphone to say to us that we are a community where it doesn't matter how hard you do work or don't work just as long as when the chips are down you win.

It's a spendthrift version of the skeezy old, lawless "what you can do in Louisiana depends more on who you know and what they're willing to let you get by with," corruption encouragement and cronyism. It's the same as adding a no-can-do attitude to a can-do city. To some degree it's got to be a discouragement of kindness and patience, since character is what you do for someone regardless of what they can do for you.

Shreveport has a medical school, a major SAC air force base, a liberal arts college in a nice neighborhood, a port and a number of oil patch skyscrapers; New Orleans has that (minus the air force base) plus NASA staff and a second medical school.

Thanks to the casino trade and the lifestyle around it, both cities have made a trade more as seedy party pads. I met a famous architect from Florida who had a posh historic weekend home in NOLA but sold it purely because he was tired of having to keep looking over his shoulder every time he went out for a stroll to or from their house at night. I met a medical researcher who was being recruited to LSU Medical School New Orleans and was candidly told, "You can always get money here if you're looking to throw a party, but it's going to have to be federal grants for health research, because the locals don't donate for that anymore." I doubt Tulane got its good reputation without local philanthropy but NOLA doesn't roll that way anymore.

That attitude rightly leads businesses to avoid Louisiana and other cities with that reputation, and to gravitate to ones who host research institutions and do value education and diligence more than celebration of expensive, short-lived good times. No scare quotes necessary.

Unless we already want to become more that way, and faster, then we don't want to accept some quantity of dollars and glamor in exchange for assuring our citizens and youths that that aleatory attitude is the way to be bold in Dallas -- what our particular city glorifies, desires, and aspires to -- to score or at least score some extra pleasure that's all ours if Lady Luck is on our side. Please don't bring some Vegas to Dallas.

But, more than that, it's not a good megaphone for a community to ever embrace. The fly by night mirage, whether upscale or down, is even more crappy than the escort trafficking, alcoholic addictions, low education, family bankruptcies and costly social support services to put the pieces back together. Those posh ecosystems that slosh around in the whirlwind wake of posh resorts.

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Matt777
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Matt777 » 02 Dec 2023 08:36

I would think the most logical location for something like this would be the old Reunion arena site. The convention center redo is mentioned in a lot of the press, so this would be adjacent. The site would also place it close to the potential HSR station, and not too far from anything that might ever materialize on the Trinity River.

I would say the second most likely site would be something along the Trinity, maybe the jail site or something around there.

Smart District is possible.... but seems like the street grid would have to be heavily altered and broken to fit a stadium.

My unlikely but interesting guess would be creating an entire gambling district somewhere near the Old Texas Stadium site, straddling Irving and Dallas, roughly bordered by 114, Loop 12, Storey Lane, and I-35, with the Trinity Elm Fork running through the middle. The Irving side of that area is almost completely demolished and ready, and the Dallas side is developed but certainly could be redeveloped.

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zaphod
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby zaphod » 02 Dec 2023 14:17

All I'm going to say is,

If the Mavs moved to Frisco or Mansfield or Forney somewhere like that so that they could anchor some gigantic self-contained casino monstrosity I would disown the team. Basketball is one of those sports where the players and culture matter more than where the team is located, but I would still be left such a bad taste in my mouth, just no.

Maybe the actual solution is for them to move to Vegas after all and for Cuban to go with them, then. The NBA would not allow the 4th soon to be 3rd largest metro area and one of the richest in the country not have a single team(I am aware of Seattle still being without one, or LA's long NFL drought, of course). I think at worst there would be Charlotte Bobcats -> Hornets scenario. Mavs move to Vegas, become the Vegas Deuces or the Vegas Neon or something, Cuban and Adelson get their stupid casino, then in 4 years Dallas either gets an expansion team or takes a team from a small declining market with an aging arena and under-valued team (Grizzlies?) which plays for a while under one name then gets the Mavs name and banners. Then the ball would be in the city's court to say we'll help pay for an arena, but you play in this location, etc.

Houston went through this with the Oilers and the "people" came out victorious over league/team owner chicanery. They eventually got the Texans and NRG. I say call the bluff.

Ideally a Reunion Arena 2.0, that would be my preferred site if not Victory.

I wonder what the Stars would do. They say they wouldn't leave AA Center. I hope that is the truth. If they did, then what? I like the idea of demoing it and the city building something like a live music and venue to sustain visitors to the area and retain an attraction for people to want to live in the area. Though the Convention Center achieves that too.

Whatever, this is the problem that DFW has that other metros don't, there are these centripetal economic forces which spin apart the city's culture and causes all its attractions to be sprawled out everywhere and be duplicative and short lived.

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I45Tex
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 02 Dec 2023 18:13

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2010/04 ... of-dallas/

[2010]

"Time will tell how the [176-acre] project helps the area [near Kiest and Sunderland, five miles from DTD "in South Dallas, where basketball is king"] rebound. But if built as proposed, the development would be a remarkable economic injection into an area of vacant land, long-established neighborhoods, new and aging apartments and a scattering of businesses and parks.

Sitting in morning shade at the city's Wonderview Park, near the proposed development site, Wendell Mays said he welcomed such changes to the neighborhood.

'It'll be good because there'll be a lot of wealthy folks moving in and more law, and the crime will go down,' he said."

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I45Tex
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 02 Dec 2023 18:23

I'm going to go out on a limb and say the owners in the league would not see a reason to approve the Mavs going to Vegas and leaving just because of buyer's remorse about details of the owner's dream arena proposal.

The league would be able to charge a mammoth new franchise fee to people like Shaq and LeBron who each hope to be the owner of the NBA team there. They won't be participating in the same bidding war for Dallas' NBA franchise if the Vegas expansion is taken by the Adelsons. From the governors' perspective the whole league benefits if the franchise fee is a larger new cash infusion.

So they want to charge whatever the market will bear. Since they would not want to fill that slot with the Vegas Mavs, the trump card of threatening to move the Mavs if Texans don't want urban casinos = probably a nonexistent threat.

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northsouth
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby northsouth » 02 Dec 2023 19:16

Until they actually pull the trigger on expansion and put the new team in Vegas, I'll still be a little nervous in the back of my mind about it. I'm not a fan of Cuban's oddly strong desire to put a casino in the new arena, and I'm not a fan of the Adelson family, so the whole thing's put a bad taste in my mouth about the team on that level (play-wise they still haven't figured out how to play defense as a team or gotten more guys who can rebound effectively aside from Lively).

I remember hearing the first time that Cuban mentioned this idea (was that earlier this year or last year?) that they had bought or were looking at buying some land in the Cedars for a potential arena site, but I'm not sure where. There aren't a ton of patches of land that would be big enough without removing some streets and/or a lot of buildings. The best few spots are all near the DART junction between the Red/Blue lines and the line to their yard, so a new station could be included.

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tamtagon
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby tamtagon » 02 Dec 2023 21:42

Owner's resistance to league expansion is understandable, in all professional sport leagues. They horde money and influence and detest competitors.

More teams in more markets, that's the demand.

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I45Tex
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 02 Dec 2023 22:19

I didn't see the original interview where he described the idea but it was December 2022. Off-topic but: I don't think that the year in which both LA teams and the Suns, Nugs and Dubs are all all-in on winning a championship is going to be the year that the Mavs finally put together their winning defensive formula.

Off-off-topic: if the league adds expansion teams in Seattle and Las Vegas, then either Memphis or New Orleans would probably move to the Eastern Conference, right? But I think that they probably have more meaningful rivalries in this conference than the Timberwolves do. I would shift T-wolves to the East to compete more often with Milwaukee, Chicago, and Indiana (if the NBA even keeps "divisions" in a more-than-30-team league) and that'd be better for the fans.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Dallas_Uptown » 03 Dec 2023 13:54

zaphod wrote:All I'm going to say is,

If the Mavs moved to Frisco or Mansfield or Forney somewhere like that so that they could anchor some gigantic self-contained casino monstrosity I would disown the team. Basketball is one of those sports where the players and culture matter more than where the team is located, but I would still be left such a bad taste in my mouth, just no.

Maybe the actual solution is for them to move to Vegas after all and for Cuban to go with them, then. The NBA would not allow the 4th soon to be 3rd largest metro area and one of the richest in the country not have a single team(I am aware of Seattle still being without one, or LA's long NFL drought, of course). I think at worst there would be Charlotte Bobcats -> Hornets scenario. Mavs move to Vegas, become the Vegas Deuces or the Vegas Neon or something, Cuban and Adelson get their stupid casino, then in 4 years Dallas either gets an expansion team or takes a team from a small declining market with an aging arena and under-valued team (Grizzlies?) which plays for a while under one name then gets the Mavs name and banners. Then the ball would be in the city's court to say we'll help pay for an arena, but you play in this location, etc.

Houston went through this with the Oilers and the "people" came out victorious over league/team owner chicanery. They eventually got the Texans and NRG. I say call the bluff.

Ideally a Reunion Arena 2.0, that would be my preferred site if not Victory.

I wonder what the Stars would do. They say they wouldn't leave AA Center. I hope that is the truth. If they did, then what? I like the idea of demoing it and the city building something like a live music and venue to sustain visitors to the area and retain an attraction for people to want to live in the area. Though the Convention Center achieves that too.

Whatever, this is the problem that DFW has that other metros don't, there are these centripetal economic forces which spin apart the city's culture and causes all its attractions to be sprawled out everywhere and be duplicative and short lived.


Amen!

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ContriveDallasite
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby ContriveDallasite » 05 Dec 2023 09:02

I still have trouble understanding why a stadium needs to be replaced every twenty years. Unfortunate that it revolves more around money and pushing subsidies around than a team actually having a legit presence in the local market.


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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 08 Dec 2023 17:21

This would be a real monkey paws wish if this is what eventually leads to FC Dallas building a new stadium more centrally. Word has been that the Hunts have had Toyota Stadium redevelopment plans sitting in their back pocket that were ready to go when Texas gambling was last on the table that included a hotel and sports gambling/casino attached to the current stadium. Gambling didn't pass so things have been all quiet on that for now. But the uproar that the universal studios kid's theme park got would sound like a whisper compared to the uproar casino plans in Frisco would get.
It's not hard for me to imagine the Hunts moving FC Dallas to the former Texas stadium site and the Mavs moving to this site across 114 to create a sports gambling hub.

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Matt777
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Matt777 » 08 Dec 2023 19:44

Has there ever been an example of two cities “sharing” tax revenue and expenses for a particular area? Could Irving and Dallas share this land along the city limit borders? It would be a real loss if we lose the Mavs and possibly the Stars to Irving. When are we going to take steps forward instead of back. If the gambling plan is only in Irving, and we lose all the tax revenue plus the Mavs revenue, but have to deal with all of the problems (just like we do with the suburbs using Parkland and dropping off their homeless in Dallas), I’m vehemently against allowing gambling. Tired of being the garbage can for our suburbs.

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CTroyMathis
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby CTroyMathis » 08 Dec 2023 20:22

Something similar to DFWIA revenue sharing perhaps?

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I45Tex
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 17 Dec 2023 22:47



"Las Vegas Sands ... in July acquired about 259 acres across eight properties at State Highway 114 and Loop 12, near the former Texas Stadium site in Irving, the Dallas Business Journal reported.

It was [on December 11th*] previously reported that the Adelson family owned just 108 acres in the suburb northwest of Dallas.

... The Irving properties are unrelated to the Adelson family’s majority purchase of the Mavericks, a Las Vegas Sands spokesperson told the Dallas Morning News. The holdings are part of the Sands’ long standing interest in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. The company could buy more Irving real estate in the future, the spokesperson said."

-- https://therealdeal.com/texas/2023/12/1 ... in-irving/

* https://therealdeal.com/texas/dallas/20 ... to-irving/

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby rono3849 » 17 Dec 2023 23:30

The state of Texas will be hard pressed to allow casino gambling outside of major metro markets. Within those metros, they won't put casinos throughout the cities. Dallas will get two, Houston two or three, with San Antonio, Austin, Ft. Worth, & El Paso getting one each. It will be highly controlled and contained. JMO.

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tamtagon
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby tamtagon » 18 Dec 2023 14:32

When did the Adelson family buy control of the Mavericks?

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eburress
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby eburress » 18 Dec 2023 17:17

tamtagon wrote:When did the Adelson family buy control of the Mavericks?

A few weeks ago

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Addison
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Addison » 18 Dec 2023 18:17

tamtagon wrote:When did the Adelson family buy control of the Mavericks?


Technnically, they haven't yet. They've only entered into an agreement to buy majority control of the Mavericks, with the sale projected to close before year-end.

The specific date I've heard as a target is 12/20.

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tamtagon
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby tamtagon » 18 Dec 2023 19:16

Wtf is Cuban up to?

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eburress
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby eburress » 19 Dec 2023 03:56

There are a variety of news articles explaining everything, speculating on his rationale, and all that. Check out YouTube to get caught up. :)

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Kelley USA
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Kelley USA » 19 Dec 2023 11:20

tamtagon wrote:Wtf is Cuban up to?


A lot of it has to do with future of TV rights and being able to put the Mavs in a better place financially for the future. Also, worth noting, that in some weird twist, he still keeps operational control of the Mavs. So it's not like the Adelson's will come in and hire a new coach & GM, or trade Luka. :D

But as far as casino sites go, this is a pretty choice site! They would have all the room they need to develop a mega resort(s) with retail, a new arena etc... From an access standpoint, so much easier to get to for most of DFW with less traffic. The site does sort of have a DART stop and an additional stop could easily be added, plus the site sits right between DFW & Love Field Airport. Now, as a long-time resident of Las Colinas, I'm not necessarily thrilled about the possibility of a Mavs arena here. I love DT arenas and stadiums! I think they're so cool. There's nothing like leaving a Mavs / Stars game and walking right out onto Victory Plaza and seeing DT.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby The_Overdog » 20 Dec 2023 09:10

I'm completely lost on what a sports arena has to do with gambling, and what value add they create by putting them in the same complex. Las Vegas is replacing old casinos with sports arenas, and putting them around their 'downtown' because that's where the people are. Dallas is doing basically the opposite.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 20 Dec 2023 09:33

The_Overdog wrote:I'm completely lost on what a sports arena has to do with gambling, and what value add they create by putting them in the same complex. Las Vegas is replacing old casinos with sports arenas, and putting them around their 'downtown' because that's where the people are. Dallas is doing basically the opposite.


There is inherently more of a thrill in betting on something that you are actually present to witness. Whatever the casino plans might be, the core of it would likely be focused around betting on NBA games--both the one being played then and there, and all the games being played across the league that day.
Psychologically it's like this; would it be more exciting to bet on a roulette wheel spinning right in front of you, or to bet on a video of a roulette wheel that's being streamed to you from miles away? Nothing has changed in terms of the gamble, but the experience is totally different, and you're far more likely to make riskier and more frequent bets if you feel like you're in the center of the action.
It's all scummy, but this is how anyone looking to start this sort of casino sees it.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby mhainli » 20 Dec 2023 14:10

The_Overdog wrote:I'm completely lost on what a sports arena has to do with gambling, and what value add they create by putting them in the same complex. Las Vegas is replacing old casinos with sports arenas, and putting them around their 'downtown' because that's where the people are. Dallas is doing basically the opposite.
The obvious value added to the casino is you have 200+ arena events a year (15K-20K people per event) who could stop in to the casino before/after the event. Value added to the arena (although more unclear and harder to prove) is the increased likelihood that more people will attend the arena event because they also wish to combine with trip to casino. If one ownership group controls both arena and casino, then ownership is not only making money on concerts and shows at arena (current model) but also from before/after gambling from arena attendees. Moreover, with the synergistic effects of owning nearby resort hotel, restaurants, office buildings, etc - it’s easy to see even more money to be made. Out of town sports and concert arena goers making a weekend of it and spending more money. Office workers stopping by to do a little gambling.

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Matt777
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Matt777 » 20 Dec 2023 15:50

My crazy man theory is that the Adelson land purchase in Irving is just a ploy to threaten Dallas that they could move the Mavs to Irving and also put the new casino and hotels there. They themselves said it is unrelated to the Mavs/casino proposal. They could use this for bargaining power to get what they want from the city. Maybe the Hunt Reunion area proposal that came out of nowhere is also a ploy to increase the perceived value of that property in preparation for possible dealmaking with Cuban/Adelsons.

That area of Irving is so meh.... so industrial.... and would really suck a lot out of Dallas at a time when we don't need that. We need this shot in the arm of a new stadium and casino resort.

Another crazy man theory is that they use this to get the terms they want from the city, then stay in the current AAC with some modifications and build a giant pedestrian walkway/people mover across 35 from the AAC/DART station and build the resorts/casinos on Cuban's Mavs practice facility land and maybe some other land they've secretly assembled in that area. 40 Acres of nearby property, including the huge Dallas Design Center next door to the practice facility, sold last year to a company called HN Capital. Interestingly, the Managing Partner of HN Capital came from 15 years at Hunt.

I will be waiting with popcorn and my pitchfork ready just in case!

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby MC_ScattCat » 20 Dec 2023 16:12

I think part of the success the Mavs is the ease of getting to the arena even from Ft. Worth. The Irving/Dallas site up at the old Texas Stadium site doesn't have the same ease.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Dallas_Uptown » 21 Dec 2023 19:25

The old Cowboys site has no supporting entertainment/food venues.

Sure, some could pop up, but the freeways would be a barrier.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby BigD5349 » 22 Dec 2023 10:57

Eric Johnson was interviewed on CBS 11 last night, said that Cuban has promised to not take the Mavs out of Dallas, and Johnson just assumes he will be true to his word. I hope that was not just a fluffy answer to a media interviewer. He sounded like a guy who is sitting on his hands waiting for the phone to ring. I hope he’s actually engaged in conversations and will at least bring a deal to the voters to let them decide. There’s other deep pocket persons involved now, so the dynamic is shifting beyond just Cuban.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 22 Dec 2023 11:22

BigD5349 wrote:Eric Johnson was interviewed on CBS 11 last night, said that Cuban has promised to not take the Mavs out of Dallas, and Johnson just assumes he will be true to his word. I hope that was not just a fluffy answer to a media interviewer. He sounded like a guy who is sitting on his hands waiting for the phone to ring. I hope he’s actually engaged in conversations and will at least bring a deal to the voters to let them decide. There’s other deep pocket persons involved now, so the dynamic is shifting beyond just Cuban.

If Cuban is about to lose majority ownership of the team then doesn't his promise not to relocate the Mavericks have about as much authority as my own promise not to relocate the Mavericks?

Dallas_Uptown wrote:The old Cowboys site has no supporting entertainment/food venues.

Sure, some could pop up, but the freeways would be a barrier.

Strangely this is kind of what makes the site work so well. The freeways insulate it from any residents nearby that don't want to live next door to a casino resort. A casino is something I can't imagine many people would actually want to have seamlessly interwoven into the fabric of their neighborhood, so having this sort of walled-off urban resort area spring up in the middle of nothing might be for the best. There's so much space here that residential would likely be added at some point, but it would be high density and appeal to people specifically looking for that kind of neighborhood rather than having that kind of neighborhood being put upon existing areas.
It's fenced in but would have so many entry points with three intersecting highways and a stop on the Orange Line. Hard to think of any other site more suited to a gaudy, noisy 24/7 entertainment district.

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Matt777
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Matt777 » 22 Dec 2023 11:51

BigD5349 wrote:Eric Johnson was interviewed on CBS 11 last night, said that Cuban has promised to not take the Mavs out of Dallas, and Johnson just assumes he will be true to his word. I hope that was not just a fluffy answer to a media interviewer. He sounded like a guy who is sitting on his hands waiting for the phone to ring. I hope he’s actually engaged in conversations and will at least bring a deal to the voters to let them decide. There’s other deep pocket persons involved now, so the dynamic is shifting beyond just Cuban.


If moving to Irving benefits the real estate of any of Eric Johnson's wealthy benefactors, he will not do anything about it. Curious who of the Preston Hollow elite owns land or stakes in that area.... Most Preston Hollow people also don't care about Dallas and would gladly secede from the city if they could.

Dallas citizens are nowhere on his priority list. His benefactors, who got him elected, are going to fund his Republican state office campaign once he's done with "being" mayor. He could care less where the Mavs go or how it's going to affect the long term viability of our city. His plan is to be in state office in Austin, hence the need to officially switch to the Republican party recently. (even though he was always working for them... but he needed to be Democrat to get votes for mayor).

So when it looks like he's asleep at the wheel on this... it's because he is.

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I45Tex
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 22 Dec 2023 16:14

Where the Mavs go is not going to affect the long-term viability of our city compared to a hundred other "hows" that he and the council clearly are tasked with being awake at the wheel for. Please don't go conspiratorial. It's not helpful to cite the lack of evidence of his involvement *as the evidence* of his own coconspirators' [in/]actions.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 22 Dec 2023 22:05

But maybe they can buy these plans at a discount...
IMG_2273.png
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Casa Linda
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Casa Linda » 23 Dec 2023 10:51

I'm old enough to know that in the end, everything is about short term money gain. It'll be sad when the Mavs and Stars move out of the downtown area. People love going to games and concerts when they can hang out before and after in Uptown/Downtown/Victory.

Irving is a terrible area for this. Texas Stadium area is awful with all the freeways.

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Addison
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Addison » 23 Dec 2023 13:15

I45Tex wrote:But maybe they can buy these plans at a discount...
IMG_2273.png


The Vaporware with that one is quote strong.

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mhainli
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby mhainli » 23 Dec 2023 18:29

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:
BigD5349 wrote:Eric Johnson was interviewed on CBS 11 last night, said that Cuban has promised to not take the Mavs out of Dallas, and Johnson just assumes he will be true to his word. I hope that was not just a fluffy answer to a media interviewer. He sounded like a guy who is sitting on his hands waiting for the phone to ring. I hope he’s actually engaged in conversations and will at least bring a deal to the voters to let them decide. There’s other deep pocket persons involved now, so the dynamic is shifting beyond just Cuban.

If Cuban is about to lose majority ownership of the team then doesn't his promise not to relocate the Mavericks have about as much authority as my own promise not to relocate the Mavericks?

Dallas_Uptown wrote:The old Cowboys site has no supporting entertainment/food venues.

Sure, some could pop up, but the freeways would be a barrier.

Strangely this is kind of what makes the site work so well. The freeways insulate it from any residents nearby that don't want to live next door to a casino resort. A casino is something I can't imagine many people would actually want to have seamlessly interwoven into the fabric of their neighborhood, so having this sort of walled-off urban resort area spring up in the middle of nothing might be for the best. There's so much space here that residential would likely be added at some point, but it would be high density and appeal to people specifically looking for that kind of neighborhood rather than having that kind of neighborhood being put upon existing areas.
It's fenced in but would have so many entry points with three intersecting highways and a stop on the Orange Line. Hard to think of any other site more suited to a gaudy, noisy 24/7 entertainment district.
Yes indeed, only way Cuban can “guarantee” next arena is in the city of Dallas is if he’s willing to part with a significant sum of his own money (from sale of Mavs) to fund the new arena. “Guarantee” is in quotes because, in addition to not owning the team anymore, there are other factors outside his control - namely coming up with a large acceptable site, usual Dallas politics, opposition to public funding (if any) and/or to the site itself. As we’ve discovered over the years, without a significant political champion (Kirk, Leppert) these projects die in Dallas and a suburb or Ft Worth swoops in quickly. See Cowboy's stadium in 2004, Rangers stadium in late 80s, Texas Motor Speedway in the 90s…. I hope current Dallas leadership is planning for this future casino/arena thing. We certainly know that Frisco, Irving and Arlington are…

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northsouth
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby northsouth » 23 Dec 2023 21:28

Casa Linda wrote:I'm old enough to know that in the end, everything is about short term money gain. It'll be sad when the Mavs and Stars move out of the downtown area. People love going to games and concerts when they can hang out before and after in Uptown/Downtown/Victory.

Irving is a terrible area for this. Texas Stadium area is awful with all the freeways.

The Stars have stated that they have no intention of moving out of the AAC, and are willing to put money into upgrading it. Whether or not that stays their position down the road, who knows, but at least for now it's good to know they're staying put.

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Matt777
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Matt777 » 03 Jan 2024 00:23

Matt777 wrote:My crazy man theory is that the Adelson land purchase in Irving is just a ploy to threaten Dallas that they could move the Mavs to Irving and also put the new casino and hotels there. They themselves said it is unrelated to the Mavs/casino proposal. They could use this for bargaining power to get what they want from the city. Maybe the Hunt Reunion area proposal that came out of nowhere is also a ploy to increase the perceived value of that property in preparation for possible dealmaking with Cuban/Adelsons.

That area of Irving is so meh.... so industrial.... and would really suck a lot out of Dallas at a time when we don't need that. We need this shot in the arm of a new stadium and casino resort.

Another crazy man theory is that they use this to get the terms they want from the city, then stay in the current AAC with some modifications and build a giant pedestrian walkway/people mover across 35 from the AAC/DART station and build the resorts/casinos on Cuban's Mavs practice facility land and maybe some other land they've secretly assembled in that area. 40 Acres of nearby property, including the huge Dallas Design Center next door to the practice facility, sold last year to a company called HN Capital. Interestingly, the Managing Partner of HN Capital came from 15 years at Hunt.

I will be waiting with popcorn and my pitchfork ready just in case!



Well, well, well. I guess my crazy man theory isn’t so crazy after all. The Adelson’s purchased the Mavs training facility property in the Design District as well as several other surrounding properties, totaling over a dozen acres:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... MBnAIGx7m8

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby lakewoodhobo » 03 Jan 2024 09:56

Matt777 wrote:
Matt777 wrote:My crazy man theory is that the Adelson land purchase in Irving is just a ploy to threaten Dallas that they could move the Mavs to Irving and also put the new casino and hotels there. They themselves said it is unrelated to the Mavs/casino proposal. They could use this for bargaining power to get what they want from the city. Maybe the Hunt Reunion area proposal that came out of nowhere is also a ploy to increase the perceived value of that property in preparation for possible dealmaking with Cuban/Adelsons.

That area of Irving is so meh.... so industrial.... and would really suck a lot out of Dallas at a time when we don't need that. We need this shot in the arm of a new stadium and casino resort.

Another crazy man theory is that they use this to get the terms they want from the city, then stay in the current AAC with some modifications and build a giant pedestrian walkway/people mover across 35 from the AAC/DART station and build the resorts/casinos on Cuban's Mavs practice facility land and maybe some other land they've secretly assembled in that area. 40 Acres of nearby property, including the huge Dallas Design Center next door to the practice facility, sold last year to a company called HN Capital. Interestingly, the Managing Partner of HN Capital came from 15 years at Hunt.

I will be waiting with popcorn and my pitchfork ready just in case!



Well, well, well. I guess my crazy man theory isn’t so crazy after all. The Adelson’s purchased the Mavs training facility property in the Design District as well as several other surrounding properties, totaling over a dozen acres:

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... MBnAIGx7m8


I guess the only guaranteed winners in this are Mark Cuban and Dallas County. Everything else is speculation, but it would be nice to see a new player in the Design District spend some money there.

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rono3849
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby rono3849 » 03 Jan 2024 17:51

I suspect there are already proposed renderings in the pipeline, but the Mavericks are tied to AAC for the next few years and it will take awhile for a new arena to be built. The Stars have no plans to leave AAC, so it would be a Mavs' move only as of now. The need for a new Downtown super hotel doesn't appear to be immediate. However, if the State ever approves of gambling casinos, I'm sure this site will be one of the top choices to put a casino/resort location.

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rickbansal
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby rickbansal » 04 Jan 2024 05:25

I don't see why a new arena is required. What's wrong with AAC? Granted I haven't been there for a few years so maybe it's deteriorated considerably over that time...

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Cbdallas
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Cbdallas » 04 Jan 2024 08:58

Not about needs but wants. If you have the money you can just do wants.

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mhainli
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby mhainli » 04 Jan 2024 14:44

The AAC will be 30 years old when the lease runs out in 2031. Not likely that a new arena will be ready by then, especially if the new owners are waiting for casino gambling to pass in Texas. My guess is that in the meantime various assemblages of land will be acquired ready for that day or more likely for the arena to be built first, casino/hotel later. Perhaps a short lease extension for the AAC, then a move into the new arena in 2034 or so. Hope the city of Dallas is being proactive about this.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby MC_ScattCat » 05 Jan 2024 10:10

The nice thing about the AAC is the connection to DART/Tex Rail. If a new area goes into the design district I hope some sort of pedestrian walkway is built that is somewhat protected from the elements. Unfortunately I see that either this wont happen or it will overrun this homeless if it does.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby vman » 05 Jan 2024 11:15

MC_ScattCat wrote:The nice thing about the AAC is the connection to DART/Tex Rail. If a new area goes into the design district I hope some sort of pedestrian walkway is built that is somewhat protected from the elements. Unfortunately I see that either this wont happen or it will overrun this homeless if it does.

As much as I feel that if a new arena is built, it should be in Dallas; if the new arena is built in the Design District and has no light rail connection, then I would rather it be in the Irving location. Dallas can't be a "world class" city if all of our sports venues have no real connection to any decent forms of mass transit.

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rickbansal
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby rickbansal » 05 Jan 2024 12:25

vman wrote:
MC_ScattCat wrote:The nice thing about the AAC is the connection to DART/Tex Rail. If a new area goes into the design district I hope some sort of pedestrian walkway is built that is somewhat protected from the elements. Unfortunately I see that either this wont happen or it will overrun this homeless if it does.

As much as I feel that if a new arena is built, it should be in Dallas; if the new arena is built in the Design District and has no light rail connection, then I would rather it be in the Irving location. Dallas can't be a "world class" city if all of our sports venues have no real connection to any decent forms of mass transit.



Agreed, all of the various sports venues need to be better connected. There was an article in DMN a couple of days ago regarding the DFW-Houston High-Speed Rail https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/2024/01/03/dallas-houston-texas-central-high-speed-amtrak/ and one of images in the article is:

Image

Would love to see Dallas connected to AT&T Stadium and The Ballpark connected by high-speed rail.

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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby I45Tex » 05 Jan 2024 13:21

Even people who view megaspending on rail as a need and not merely a "want" acknowledge that it's worse at handling major stadium crowds than "lake-sized parking lots" are. The numbers of people who can arrive and depart within an hour of the beginning and end of the game (unless you build an NYC-style four-tracked parallel express and local system... which we wouldn't) are pretty inadequate so as to be considered a "want" again.

https://carolinaangles.com/2018/01/16/t ... s-to-town/

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby MC_ScattCat » 05 Jan 2024 13:43

I disagree that parking lots are better, but that's only based on going to games in other cities with both options. You may have to wait on a train or two to get on, but it much easier and waaay less expensive. The other side of this is hypothetically if a new arena is built in the design district there is nowhere to build these "lake-sized parking lots".

One off the wall idea I had was for Dallas to sell the market center place to them and build it there. Two large hotels nearby, not much housing on the west side of the railroad, you can put new station there or re-locate the medical district one. Keeps Mavs in Dallas, gives them room for parking garages at least, and public transportation.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 05 Jan 2024 19:08

rickbansal wrote:
vman wrote:
MC_ScattCat wrote:The nice thing about the AAC is the connection to DART/Tex Rail. If a new area goes into the design district I hope some sort of pedestrian walkway is built that is somewhat protected from the elements. Unfortunately I see that either this wont happen or it will overrun this homeless if it does.

As much as I feel that if a new arena is built, it should be in Dallas; if the new arena is built in the Design District and has no light rail connection, then I would rather it be in the Irving location. Dallas can't be a "world class" city if all of our sports venues have no real connection to any decent forms of mass transit.



Agreed, all of the various sports venues need to be better connected. There was an article in DMN a couple of days ago regarding the DFW-Houston High-Speed Rail https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/2024/01/03/dallas-houston-texas-central-high-speed-amtrak/ and one of images in the article is:

Image

Would love to see Dallas connected to AT&T Stadium and The Ballpark connected by high-speed rail.


HSR for regional commuting is the equivalent of using a sledge hammer to hang a picture on your wall.

HSR is for long distant communing with infrequent stops.

The TRE already exists. You can Upgrade rails/train, create a
Schedule that runs in game days that skips most stops. And you have a solution at the fraction of the cost.

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Mavs arena-hotel by Las Vegas Sands Corp.

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 06 Jan 2024 00:21

You may recall DART's debacle with the Texas-OU game the first year that the Green Line was open. I predicted it here in the forum. OFTOMH, the numbers were something along the line that to move half the football crowd (ignoring other Fairgoers) you would have to dedicate *all* DART rolling stock at 100% theoretical SRO capacity to nothing else for a full six hours, unloading a train at Fair Park every 60 seconds.

What can you do with 4 or 5 TRE trains carrying 200-300 people each? And don't forget that half the time they're headed the wrong way as they go back empty for another load.