Yes— really pulling DE all the way to Fair Park.Tnexster wrote:Basically right up against I-30, interesting. Nice to see height pushing so close to Fair Park.
Deep Ellum 1.0
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Any updates on ‘Crowdus Park/Plaza’?Hannibal Lecter wrote:https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... rian-park/potatocoins wrote:That's actually a fantastic idea! After recently visiting the Discovery District, I was just recently thinking how great it would be to have some sort of park/plaza in Deep Ellum for people to centrally gather. This rooftop idea would serve as just that!
- undefinedprocess
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
[quote="LPG"][quote="Hannibal Lecter"][quote="potatocoins"]That's actually a fantastic idea! After recently visiting the Discovery District, I was just recently thinking how great it would be to have some sort of park/plaza in Deep Ellum for people to centrally gather. This rooftop idea would serve as just that![/quote]
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... rian-park/[/quote]
Any updates on ‘Crowdus Park/Plaza’?[/quote]
https://www.centraltrack.com/deep-ellum ... rian-park/[/quote]
Any updates on ‘Crowdus Park/Plaza’?[/quote]
Damn. Maybe this will get underway sometime soon-"ish" considering The Assembly's starting construction in the next month or two (assuming the TDLR TABS filing is to be believed/accurate)...Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ No recent news.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
"Good E" status... (please rename it!)
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Their renovation of the Pittman was much more considerate of the historical character of the building than this is. And they tore down some similar structures on the south side of this. Was that for parking? DE can’t take too much of this kind of TLC. EQ got off to a great start without having to do this to their buildings.
- ContriveDallasite
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
It's unfortunate that this is how we treat the some of the last remaining building stock of this type. Will they be adding brick to the finish out on the beams surrounding the glass, or just slap some paint and call it a day?
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
eh, I don't think it's that bad. A lot of cities re-purpose building fronts mixed in with newer architecture.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I was in Toronto this weekend the the city is just like this - old facade with newer everything else behind & above. I this this reno looks fine.R1070 wrote:eh, I don't think it's that bad. A lot of cities re-purpose building fronts mixed in with newer architecture.
- Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
If you want to throw up in your mouth go look what Federales did at the corner of Malcolm X and Commerce. They totally gutted the building, even removing the roof and slab. Kept most of the exterior walls - then totally covered them up. Nothing of the original building is visible. I'm guessing that got some historic preservation tax credit or something by keeping the walls, even if they aren't visible.
Of course the real sin is the concept. Tacos from Chicago?!?!
Of course the real sin is the concept. Tacos from Chicago?!?!
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Last edited by Hannibal Lecter on 07 Jul 2022 19:41, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
^Yeah, I’ve seen pictures of that building from the 1930s, and they just gutted it and blasted away the facade for no good reason.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
OMG. I looked at the building on google street maps from before the renovation and it was a really cool warehouse building with lots of detail. Deep Ellum needs some sort of conservation district ordinances and enforcement.Hannibal Lecter wrote:If you want to throw up in your mouth go look what Federales did at the corner of Malcolm X and Commerce. They totally gutted the building, even removing the roof and slab. Kept most of the exterior walls - then totally covered them up. Nothing of the original building is visible. I'm guessing that got some historic preservation tax credit or something by keeping the walls, even if they aren't visible.
Of course the real sin is the concept. Tacos from Chicago?!?!
Sometimes I think concepts/business from other cities like to come here and purposely sh*t on things. Similar to what Terry Black's BBQ did.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Deep Ellum property goes to buyer from New York
Commerce Street site acquired by developer with projects in Austin.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -new-york/
Commerce Street site acquired by developer with projects in Austin.
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... -new-york/
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Hmm, will we see some sort of condo project planned here? ^
If so, I doubt it will not be very tall just, but who knows could be Case Bldg-sized tower if they are bullish on Deep Ellum and long-term growth. A lot of people who don't know Deep Ellum and who are not in developer circles see Deep Ellum as a Dowtown Austin-looking area.
If so, I doubt it will not be very tall just, but who knows could be Case Bldg-sized tower if they are bullish on Deep Ellum and long-term growth. A lot of people who don't know Deep Ellum and who are not in developer circles see Deep Ellum as a Dowtown Austin-looking area.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
- Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
^ Sad news. The tenant, Art Company, is a great small live music venue with both indoor and outdoor stages and a great outdoor area. It's like something you would expect to find in Austin.
It will be missed.
It will be missed.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I hate seeing this. Dallas needs to prevent developers from hollowing out the core of Deep Ellum (at least Elm, Main, Commerce and Canton) by knocking down old buildings and slapping up more cookie cutter apartments. Yeah, I know people would say that anything east of Hall is up for grabs... There are a few buildings I could look this other way on, like the old Westdale office building on Commerce... but I hate to see Art Co go away. I love the old Gulf station where Thunderbird is, CBC, etc.
Dallas continues to suck at preservation. We need the character of Deep Ellum to remain.
Dallas continues to suck at preservation. We need the character of Deep Ellum to remain.
- undefinedprocess
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Yeah Art Co is a big loss, been to/helped with many events there over the years. The loss of this venue is a big hit for sure. DE and Dallas deserve better. Gotta hold the city/others accountable on shit like this. The fact that Austin has Rainey St's nuclear level of growth taking place while still preserving/relocating classic Rainey bars/venues (like entire structures) is the standard we need to get to/hold developers to.
- potatocoins
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I love Art Co, but I feel like the building itself isn’t all that special and the concept could be repeated nearby?
Maybe I’m missing something. It’s absolutely one of my favorite spots in the area and I love how large their patio is. I hope they can find a new home somewhere nearby.
Maybe I’m missing something. It’s absolutely one of my favorite spots in the area and I love how large their patio is. I hope they can find a new home somewhere nearby.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
^I could say that about many buildings in the core of DE. It's not the building, it's the fabric of the neighborhood, and how that neighborhood is unique, energetic and adds creativity to the whole city. Knocking down buildings in the core of Deep Ellum and progressively slapping up cookie cutter apartments is not what Dallas needs out of this neighborhood. It's good to have residents, but the apartments can go up around the core of DE, not in the core replacing what's there now.
I contacted Preservation Dallas, for guidance, here's what they had to say... (I added the historic building survey that is mentioned below to the Historic Preservation Thread in city issues of this forum):
I contacted Preservation Dallas, for guidance, here's what they had to say... (I added the historic building survey that is mentioned below to the Historic Preservation Thread in city issues of this forum):
Concern has definitely been growing for Deep Ellum’s historic buildings for some time. Fortunately, an historic building survey has just been completed for both Downtown and Deep Ellum, and the ultimate goal is to use the information gathered to explore options to better protect the historic buildings found in these districts. Ultimately, the only way to prevent demolitions and inappropriate alterations in Deep Ellum would be to establish an historic district overlay on the area. That would be handled by the City of Dallas Office of Historic Preservation.
Additionally, buildings within Deep Ellum that are proposed for demolition must go through a Demolition Delay process before a permit can be granted. You can read about that process on OHP’s website. The Demo Delay does not prevent demolitions, but it offers an opportunity to search for alternatives with the owner. The staff contact for Demo Delays is Scott Bellen, and you can request that you be alerted to upcoming demolitions in Deep Ellum so that you can participate in any upcoming public hearings that may occur.
The 2022 Historic Resources Survey is available on the City of Dallas website. It’s a great resource.
I hope this information helps. I encourage you to sign up for our newsletter and stay involved, as citizen participation is what is making our recent progress in saving historic structures more successful. Thank you for reaching out!
- thelivingworld
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
The Historic Resources Surveys are genuinely great. A large issue seems to be that a lot of the histories of these smaller commercial buildings are gone. You can deduce the possible usage through architecture I suppose assuming there weren't renovations, but they reference the Sanborn fire maps a lot which doesn't label smaller commercial buildings and Flashback Dallas a lot. Excellent though all 850 pages of it.BigD5349 wrote: I contacted Preservation Dallas, for guidance, here's what they had to say... (I added the historic building survey that is mentioned below to the Historic Preservation Thread in city issues of this forum):
Dallas went from the 33rd most populous US city in 1940 to the 14th most populous in 1960. Right at the height of modernism, urban renewal, highway building. So those two things I think destroyed a lot of the history. There have been other similar spells in its history especially involving the rise and fall of railroads. The city outgrows it's city hall, it tears it down and builds a new one and doesn't think twice about it because it needs that space for something else. That being said we should preserve as much as we can and try to revive and recover these stories and places as much as we can.
- thelivingworld
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Duplicate
Last edited by thelivingworld on 11 Aug 2022 18:38, edited 1 time in total.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
The Deep Ellum Hostel permanently shut down a little over a week ago. Wasn't around very long.
It's a bummer as we don't have much else like it, so we're back to the hostel in Irving being the only hostel around town.
I'd be curious to see if a hostel in an area like Bishop Arts would fare better. Obviously we've got bigger fish to fry, but that we can't keep something like a hostel open reaffirms that Dallas still has a ways to go before becoming a 'destination.'
It's a bummer as we don't have much else like it, so we're back to the hostel in Irving being the only hostel around town.
I'd be curious to see if a hostel in an area like Bishop Arts would fare better. Obviously we've got bigger fish to fry, but that we can't keep something like a hostel open reaffirms that Dallas still has a ways to go before becoming a 'destination.'
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Why can't Dallas ever get it with projects like this? Thanks for posting. Sorry to hear of it's demise.
"To love ..(a).. city and to have a part in its advancement and improvement is the highest priority and duty of a citizen."
Daniel Burnham, 1909
Daniel Burnham, 1909
- potatocoins
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
That's a shame, I was really excited when the hostel did open. I'm hoping the main reason it closed was because of the pandemic, and that it's not because Dallas can't support a hostel.
Wasn't there talks about potentially opening a hostel in the East Quarter? I thought that was something being talked about not too long ago.
Wasn't there talks about potentially opening a hostel in the East Quarter? I thought that was something being talked about not too long ago.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Those talks were about a micro-hotel. Albeit they were planning Texas-sized microhotel rooms, so, a relatively normal hotel by most urban standards.potatocoins wrote:Wasn't there talks about potentially opening a hostel in the East Quarter? I thought that was something being talked about not too long ago.
I'm not sure if that ever materialized or not.
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
As much as we want Dallas to be a true global destination (also: "world-class city" but without the quotes), we have to think about what demand there is for a traditional hostel in 1) the era of AirBnb and 2) the context of cheap motels serving as quasi-homeless shelters. At the end of the day, this city has very different problems and opportunities compared to Madrid and Mexico City.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:The Deep Ellum Hostel permanently shut down a little over a week ago. Wasn't around very long.
It's a bummer as we don't have much else like it, so we're back to the hostel in Irving being the only hostel around town.
I'd be curious to see if a hostel in an area like Bishop Arts would fare better. Obviously we've got bigger fish to fry, but that we can't keep something like a hostel open reaffirms that Dallas still has a ways to go before becoming a 'destination.'
Just thinking aloud here, but what I really want to see in Bishop Arts is a kick-ass boutique hotel.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I've stayed in hostels across the U.S. and they were all in areas very much like Deep Ellum. They serve a very particular and valuable niche in city cultures that Airbnb does not replicate: a shared waypoint for budget (i.e. young) travelers.
The ones I've stayed in all had beds for only like $15 and required out-of-state I.D.s or passports. Everyone in them was a traveler coming from varied walks of life. Bunking with strangers isn't everyone's cup of tea, but i've had a ton of fun meeting people in hostels from all over, and the experience just can't be replicated in a hotel or airbnb. For one, I wouldn't be able to afford them so I wouldn't get to go at all ahah.
That fits for Dallas though. There's no worthwhile reason to visit the city for the city's sake unless you can afford the best of what it can offer, which is still shopping and food related. That might explain why a hostel can't work here--if you aren't spending a bunch of money there's not much to do, so, not much reason to visit period.
The ones I've stayed in all had beds for only like $15 and required out-of-state I.D.s or passports. Everyone in them was a traveler coming from varied walks of life. Bunking with strangers isn't everyone's cup of tea, but i've had a ton of fun meeting people in hostels from all over, and the experience just can't be replicated in a hotel or airbnb. For one, I wouldn't be able to afford them so I wouldn't get to go at all ahah.
That fits for Dallas though. There's no worthwhile reason to visit the city for the city's sake unless you can afford the best of what it can offer, which is still shopping and food related. That might explain why a hostel can't work here--if you aren't spending a bunch of money there's not much to do, so, not much reason to visit period.
Last edited by IcedCowboyCoffee on 09 Aug 2022 18:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Also the Deep Ellum Hostel was a luxury hostel charging prices akin to a local cheap hotel. I don't think the Deep Ellum Hostel is the best measure to compare against the entire hostel system throughout the world. In true Dallas style, the Dallas Hostel was trying to tie into the Hostel culture but still be a hotel and highly desirable location. The problem is if you aren't a hotel and you aren't a true hostel, are you serving anyone? The answer may have been no, even with the pandemic, but I am sure that put a huge wrench in their plans for sure.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
To be fair, I don't think having a large amount of hostels at all shows that a destination is "worthy" or not. All of Austin's hostels have closed except for the Firehouse hostel, which I believe is the same owner as Deep Ellum Hostel (and it could be next, they're asking $138/night per room). The pandemic was especially harsh on hostels, globally.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:I've stayed in hostels across the U.S. and they were all in areas very much like Deep Ellum. They serve a very particular and valuable niche in city cultures that Airbnb does not replicate: a shared waypoint for budget (i.e. young) travelers.
The ones I've stayed in all had beds for only like $15 and required out-of-state I.D.s or passports. Everyone in them was a traveler coming from varied walks of life. Bunking with strangers isn't everyone's cup of tea, but i've had a ton of fun meeting people in hostels from all over, and the experience just can't be replicated in a hotel or airbnb. For one, I wouldn't be able to afford them so I wouldn't get to go at all ahah.
That fits for Dallas though. There's no worthwhile reason to visit the city for the city's sake unless you can afford the best of what it can offer, which is still shopping and food related. That might explain why a hostel can't work here--if you aren't spending a bunch of money there's not much to do, so, not much reason to visit period.
Dallas has a much higher number of visitors than people realize. Business, shopping, VFR, etc.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I believe the EQ hotel that was talked about is called SOVA, and it's been open for a while now on Commerce St.
- potatocoins
- Posts: 287
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I was in the area yesterday evening, and Main St felt decently lively (especially for a Tuesday). It must have been an unusually busy night, because I was down there getting my hair cut and the person working at the establishment even noticed how busy it was and was wondering what was going on.
I saw a decent amount of adults walking around with black backpacks, so I assumed there was some convention going on. They weren't the only people walking around Deep Ellum, but they certainly did add to the pedestrian activity. Is it possible these were some new Uber hires or something?
Anyway, it was cool to see, and made me a little bit more optimistic for the area going forward. I really love the way they've turned it around, and the amount of investment being poured into here is pretty amazing. I started to get a bit nervous/uncertain when the pandemic hit and Uber really started to struggle, but hopefully things are looking up from here on out.
I saw a decent amount of adults walking around with black backpacks, so I assumed there was some convention going on. They weren't the only people walking around Deep Ellum, but they certainly did add to the pedestrian activity. Is it possible these were some new Uber hires or something?
Anyway, it was cool to see, and made me a little bit more optimistic for the area going forward. I really love the way they've turned it around, and the amount of investment being poured into here is pretty amazing. I started to get a bit nervous/uncertain when the pandemic hit and Uber really started to struggle, but hopefully things are looking up from here on out.
- undefinedprocess
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I had no idea Uber had even moved in to their space in Epic II yet, nor had moved anyone to/hired anyone in Dallas (at least for those offices).potatocoins wrote:I was in the area yesterday evening, and Main St felt decently lively (especially for a Tuesday). It must have been an unusually busy night, because I was down there getting my hair cut and the person working at the establishment even noticed how busy it was and was wondering what was going on.
I saw a decent amount of adults walking around with black backpacks, so I assumed there was some convention going on. They weren't the only people walking around Deep Ellum, but they certainly did add to the pedestrian activity. Is it possible these were some new Uber hires or something?
Anyway, it was cool to see, and made me a little bit more optimistic for the area going forward. I really love the way they've turned it around, and the amount of investment being poured into here is pretty amazing. I started to get a bit nervous/uncertain when the pandemic hit and Uber really started to struggle, but hopefully things are looking up from here on out.
- potatocoins
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
I'm not sure they have either, tbh. It was just a random guess that I'm throwing out there, but I could be wrong.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
If the police/city can figure out a way to work the crowds and get certain business owners on board to calm the late night crime, the area could be a hit day and night. People seem scared to be there at night now and that sucks.
- Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
^ It sounds like you're new to Deep Ellum.
Here's the reality: Whenever crime becomes an issue, the city's modus operandi is to drive the victims and complainers out of the area. It's the easiest way of stopping the bad press. For example, the city's top law enforcement priority this year has been to cut down on live music:
https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/lo ... m-12049284
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/deep- ... s/2683830/
https://www.keranews.org/news/2022-01-1 ... es-forward
I remember once when DE crime was in the news that the city announced they would be increasing the police presence. And sure enough that weekend there were cops in front of my building -- blocking a lane of traffic with their squad cars so they could write parking tickets for expired meters, five minutes before the meters stopped being in effect. I guess we should give those cops credit, because usually they don't get out of their cars unless they absolutely have to.
A recent FB post from the manager at Three Links:
Here's the reality: Whenever crime becomes an issue, the city's modus operandi is to drive the victims and complainers out of the area. It's the easiest way of stopping the bad press. For example, the city's top law enforcement priority this year has been to cut down on live music:
https://www.dallasobserver.com/music/lo ... m-12049284
https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/deep- ... s/2683830/
https://www.keranews.org/news/2022-01-1 ... es-forward
I remember once when DE crime was in the news that the city announced they would be increasing the police presence. And sure enough that weekend there were cops in front of my building -- blocking a lane of traffic with their squad cars so they could write parking tickets for expired meters, five minutes before the meters stopped being in effect. I guess we should give those cops credit, because usually they don't get out of their cars unless they absolutely have to.
A recent FB post from the manager at Three Links:
DFR has targeted us since March and enforced a restrictive interpretation of occupancy per our CO in the name of security. Meanwhile Elm St outside our doors has been a free for all and anytime we try to hold anyone to account for it they have asked us to police it for them.
I know we’re not the only ones suffering under this BS down here. I’m not calling for a hard nosed crackdown. I’m calling for the neighborhood to demand some sensical approach to public safety.
DFR and Code Enforcement are targeting otherwise well-meaning and objectively compliant businesses. DPD officers are outright unwilling to do their jobs of enforcing the street closures, open containers, fights, etc. When asked to they ask for receipts on what we as the operators, employees, and citizens are doing to prevent these problems while telling us it’s not safe to do so.
This shit is a problem and I know I’m not the only one exhausted by it.
- Hannibal Lecter
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs -- looking good.
BTW, the filings and news reports that called this a rehab were wrong. This is totally new construction.
BTW, the filings and news reports that called this a rehab were wrong. This is totally new construction.
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
FP Movement is opening a location between Patagonia and Uncommon James. I like seeing more retail expand into the neighborhood. We need a healthy mix of uses to keep the area busy during the day.
- potatocoins
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
That's awesome! I definitely agree, I was really glad to hear Patagonia was coming to Deep Ellum and am glad to see more retail stores set up shop here.R1070 wrote:FP Movement is opening a location between Patagonia and Uncommon James. I like seeing more retail expand into the neighborhood. We need a healthy mix of uses to keep the area busy during the day.
- undefinedprocess
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Do you happen to have a link to articles regarding this project?Hannibal Lecter wrote:Cuban's Cost Plus Drugs -- looking good.
BTW, the filings and news reports that called this a rehab were wrong. This is totally new construction.
- Hannibal Lecter
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- OrangeMike
- Posts: 171
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Another residential tower eyed for Deep Ellum block
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... lum-block/
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... lum-block/
Steve Brown says this will be on Taylor Street near Malcolm X but DCAD shows the parcel with an owner address matching Stonelake's to be a little bit south of that at Malcolm X and Hall, across the street from Deep Ellum Brewing.Texas real estate firm Stonelake Capital Partner plans to break ground next year on a 17-story residential tower in Dallas’ Deep Ellum district.
The more than $123 million high-rise will be built on Taylor Street near Malcolm X Boulevard, according to planning documents filed with the state.
The building site is now occupied by a single-story office and industrial building.
Called The Ford, Stonelake’s Deep Ellum tower will include 13 levels of apartments on top of a four-story garage.
Houston-based ZCA Residential is designing the project, which is set to start in May and will take two years to building, according to information supplied to the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation.
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Developers plan retail and residential tower near Deep Ellum rail station
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... l-station/
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... l-station/
The proposed tower would be constructed adjacent to the Deep Ellum DART rail station at Good-Latimer Expressway and Swiss Avenue.
New York-based Scenic Investments is asking the Dallas Plan Commission for the go-ahead to develop the 25-story building with 354 residential units. The tower would include about 3,000 square feet of retail space on the ground floor.
- Hannibal Lecter
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- dd_dweller
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Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Doesn’t this area of deep ellum have different parking requirements? Hoping this is not a narrow podium garage with apartments on top. Love that something different is coming to the area that’s not a club.
Re: Deep Ellum 1.0
Yes, Its not C2 like the other side of Good-Latimer which is essentially like Downtown with very dialed back parking. This side requires much more (especially for the bars) and I believe has lower height limits.
dd_dweller wrote:Doesn’t this area of deep ellum have different parking requirements? Hoping this is not a narrow podium garage with apartments on top. Love that something different is coming to the area that’s not a club.