Uptown Dallas - Field Street Development [North End Apartments Site]

[I45Tex]

The 15-20 thing, pardon my rudeness, but I think you'd actually hope they were *not* mistaken. Reason being, a typical back-office floor could be 20,000 square feet (net rentable space) per floor, but a lower floor count for the 800,000 square feet would correlate to investment trading floors, which tend to be on average larger, and I think that'd mean more the kind of workforce you actually want to see for downtown Dallas.

[I45Tex]

For example here is one on I-10 in the Energy Corridor of west Houston.

https://www.houstonarchitecture.com/hai ... ent-201626

[zblevinz555]

Y'all realize GS' tower/building would only be 15-20 stories, right? The 80+ story tower that's been teased for a year now is the hotel/resi mixed-use tower that's a completely separate portion of the project. At the City Council meeting, the words "15-20 stories" were said (speaking about the GS "tower"), and it was specifically mentioned that "it wouldn't be like your typical Dallas high-rise, it'd be more of a suburban campus feel."

Sigh.

I’m just curious, cause I don’t know what to think or believe,
but do you think we’re getting an 80 story tower at some point in the north end development? Should I get my hopes up or is this just fantasy land?

[willyk]

Maybe they are being conservative with the completion date and giving themselves a buffer in case the unexpected happens. The article says "no later than Dec 31, 2027", and I wonder if that phrasing is intentional.

Either way, I'm happy. What is most exciting (to me) about these announcements is the snowball effect they can potentially have. Even if Goldman's office may not be completed until end of 2027, the announcement has been made, so hopefully this will give other developments and other companies a bit more confidence to bet on Dallas in the meantime.

More than confidence…this GS office will inevitably attract other professional service firms that are part of the GS ecosystem— accountants, lawyers, consultants, IT, staffing, etc. will all want to be nearby. And those already present in Uptown and the CBD will need to expand.

[I45Tex]

Just idle musing, but if it had all happened a decade ago, would financial firms like Wells Fargo be any more likely to reconsider Las Colinas / DFW submarket in favor of a downtown ecosystem?

[Tucy]

It was the representative from the Office of Economic Development and she clearly knows what she is talking about and It does not look or sound like a misstatement. She said "this building will be in the neighborhood of 15 to 20 stories" and then followed that up with "This will not look like the typical Dallas high-rise. It'll look more like a suburban campus" That height makes complete sense for a project such as this and I'm not the least bit surprised (I've been warning y'all...).

https://dallastx.swagit.com/play/06232022-556

[R1070]

Why on Earth would the city want or allow a "suburban campus" in the heart of the city! They are trying to promote urbanity/walkability...

[Tucy]

Maybe they are being conservative with the completion date and giving themselves a buffer in case the unexpected happens. The article says "no later than Dec 31, 2027", and I wonder if that phrasing is intentional.

Either way, I'm happy. What is most exciting (to me) about these announcements is the snowball effect they can potentially have. Even if Goldman's office may not be completed until end of 2027, the announcement has been made, so hopefully this will give other developments and other companies a bit more confidence to bet on Dallas in the meantime.

More than confidence…this GS office will inevitably attract other professional service firms that are part of the GS ecosystem— accountants, lawyers, consultants, IT, staffing, etc. will all want to be nearby. And those already present in Uptown and the CBD will need to expand.

Not sure how much of that spinoff we should expect. Has there been significant or noticeable spinoff near Charles Schwab (which is a headquarters), Wells Fargo, Bank of America, Liberty Mutual, State Farm?

[potatocoins]

Why on Earth would the city want or allow a "suburban campus" in the heart of the city! They are trying to promote urbanity/walkability...

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Given the size of this campus and the location, I find it hard to believe they'll be able to create something akin to a suburban campus due to the lack of space here.

So are the things like ground-floor retail, residential and hotel components all still up in the air and none of that is necessarily confirmed?

[rickbansal]

Why on Earth would the city want or allow a "suburban campus" in the heart of the city! They are trying to promote urbanity/walkability...

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Given the size of this campus and the location, I find it hard to believe they'll be able to create something akin to a suburban campus due to the lack of space here.

So are the things like ground-floor retail, residential and hotel components all still up in the air and none of that is necessarily confirmed?

Yeah, the entire site is only 11 acres, right? If so, not sure how I see the type of development they've been shopping around being built, especially with a 1.5 acre park in the middle of it all. Seems like Hunt would want to maximize their investment and build vertically as much as possible...

[Tucy]

Why on Earth would the city want or allow a "suburban campus" in the heart of the city! They are trying to promote urbanity/walkability...

I'm not really sure what to make of this. Given the size of this campus and the location, I find it hard to believe they'll be able to create something akin to a suburban campus due to the lack of space here.

So are the things like ground-floor retail, residential and hotel components all still up in the air and none of that is necessarily confirmed?

Yeah, the entire site is only 11 acres, right? If so, not sure how I see the type of development they've been shopping around being built, especially with a 1.5 acre park in the middle of it all. Seems like Hunt would want to maximize their investment and build vertically as much as possible...

Even if the G-S building is only 15 stories, it would only take up about 1.25 of those acres, so there's still plenty of room for the rest of the type of development they've been shopping around (not that I think it will happen; the 80+ story building is pretty unlikely).

[rono3849]

If this G-S building is actually a 15 to 20 story building, then I hope it doesn't happen. Just keep the North End Apartments and let's move on. All of this conversation over a building smaller than the W or Victor towers is a waste of time. It's on the level of the Hillwoood Urban buildings next to AAC.

[Cbdallas]

I never thought the tall building was the Goldman building but was part of the mixed use building as part of the larger development. Not sure why everyone is upset. I would accept almost anything over those 1990's suburban apartments that are hogging and blocking up that area.

[I45Tex]

Seems like Hunt would want to maximize their investment and build vertically as much as possible...

Even if the G-S building is only 15 stories, it would only take up about 1.25 of those acres, so there's still plenty of room for the rest of the type of development they've been shopping around (not that I think it will happen; the 80+ story building is pretty unlikely).

55,000 square feet is 1.25 acres, whereas the BP Americas energy trading floors on the project built fifteen years ago (linked above) were just over 60,000 square feet per floor, and if that’s the reason for the lower floor count, then this would be a more mission-critical facility for GS than just a bunch of MBA analysts on standard 20,000 square foot office floors. Let’s wait and see, since we’re going to have to. But it’s not like the AAC Hillwood thing at all.

[dallaz]

I never thought the tall building was the Goldman building but was part of the mixed use building as part of the larger development. Not sure why everyone is upset. I would accept almost anything over those 1990's suburban apartments that are hogging and blocking up that area.

Right. That’s what I thought as well.

[Tucy]

Seems like Hunt would want to maximize their investment and build vertically as much as possible...

Even if the G-S building is only 15 stories, it would only take up about 1.25 of those acres, so there's still plenty of room for the rest of the type of development they've been shopping around (not that I think it will happen; the 80+ story building is pretty unlikely).

55,000 square feet is 1.25 acres, whereas the BP Americas energy trading floors on the project built fifteen years ago (linked above) were just over 60,000 square feet per floor, and if that’s the reason for the lower floor count, then this would be a more mission-critical facility for GS than just a bunch of MBA analysts on standard 20,000 square foot office floors. Let’s wait and see, since we’re going to have to.

You seem to want to read a lot more in to the large floor plates than what is there. Large floor plates are not uncommon for back-office type facilities. In fact, it's probably more common for back office than for just about anything else. See, for example, State Farm, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase. Having said that, the Economic Development rep said during the Council meeting that this G-S office will have all elements of the G-S operation. Accounting, HR, legal, MBA analysts etc etc.

[rono3849]

As stated earlier, if G-S wants a small office, then let them move to Irving, Frisco, or Plano. They bring nothing to the city other than traffic on Woodall Rogers Frwy. and the Tollway. Much a do about absolutely nothing. As for the little park in the development, you can toss that out too. Truly, no one cares. It makes no impact at all.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

As stated earlier, if G-S wants a small office, then let them move to Irving, Frisco, or Plano. They bring nothing to the city other than traffic on Woodall Rogers Frwy. and the Tollway. Much a do about absolutely nothing. As for the little park in the development, you can toss that out too. Truly, no one cares. It makes no impact at all.

They're literally bringing thousands of fucking jobs.

[Tucy]

As stated earlier, if G-S wants a small office, then let them move to Irving, Frisco, or Plano. They bring nothing to the city other than traffic on Woodall Rogers Frwy. and the Tollway. Much a do about absolutely nothing. As for the little park in the development, you can toss that out too. Truly, no one cares. It makes no impact at all.

They're literally bringing thousands of fucking jobs.

To be clear, if they consolidate all their current employees (which seems likely), they will be bringing about 1,000 jobs to North Texas; about 2,500 new jobs for the city of Dallas (to the detriment of Richardson).