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Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

cowboyeagle05
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 13 Aug 2019 09:22

Well, they followed the rules they built around a transit stop... ;)

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quacksax
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby quacksax » 13 Aug 2019 20:04

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Well, they followed the rules they built around a transit stop... ;)


If only they weren't separated from it by 6 lanes of high speed traffic and a CVS parking lot :)

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 11 Nov 2019 11:38

Royal Blue planned for West Davis sounds more like a restaurant than a grocery
https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2019/1 ... a-grocery/

Amegy Bank to open in the old Gloria’s site on West Davis
https://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2019/1 ... est-davis/

These two stories are an interesting snapshot of the state of the market just outside Bishop Arts. The fact that Royal Blue says they need $700,000 in subsidies to be viable and that a bank took a prime spot clearly designed as a restaurant could mean a lot of different things, but one of them could be that the core of Bishop Arts is expanding too rapidly and needs to settle a bit.

You could also argue that a business like Amegy Bank was needed here before any other new businesses decided to expand in this direction, but this area west of all the recent activity has been a little sleepy anyway due to major road construction over the last year or so.

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exelone31
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby exelone31 » 11 Nov 2019 13:28

Royal Blue asking for handouts from the city seems pretty lame. I mean, I guess it's shrewd to take free money where you can get it, but it just sends a bad message when it is a pretty high-end grocer.

I don't see them lasting in that spot if they do indeed go forward with it.

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Cbdallas
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Cbdallas » 11 Nov 2019 13:46

I don't think that site has enough direct walk-able density to make that model work there even with the $700000. Maybe it should sit idle or become a restaurant. I love the ones downtown but they have a lot more people constantly passing in and out of the store than I think this site would.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 11 Nov 2019 16:20

Cbdallas wrote:I don't think that site has enough direct walk-able density to make that model work there even with the $700000. Maybe it should sit idle or become a restaurant. I love the ones downtown but they have a lot more people constantly passing in and out of the store than I think this site would.


Also there were no continuous sidewalks along Davis St for its entire existence, and that is finally being remedied now. You can design a road for pedestrians and induce demand for walking just like you induce demand for cars by adding lanes. People will walk about a half mile to any place if it's convenient.

The shady thing about this Royal Blue deal is that they're already using the building for its 1,300 square-ft kitchen but say they need the $700k just to make it open to the public. I'm fine with half the money being a low-interest loan, but the $350,000 grant is a bit much.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby MC_ScattCat » 13 Nov 2019 12:38

As someone who lives in this neighborhood, and walks as much as we can to Bishop Arts, I don't know 1 person asking for this Royal Blue. We need a Sprouts or Central Market grocery store. The Tom Thumb on Hampton is not good. I can't understand why the Sprouts at El Fenix or the CM on Beckley/Davis isn't being built. If someone surveyed the area every person would say we need a quality grocery store.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 13 Nov 2019 13:00

MC_ScattCat wrote:As someone who lives in this neighborhood, and walks as much as we can to Bishop Arts, I don't know 1 person asking for this Royal Blue. We need a Sprouts or Central Market grocery store. The Tom Thumb on Hampton is not good. I can't understand why the Sprouts at El Fenix or the CM on Beckley/Davis isn't being built. If someone surveyed the area every person would say we need a quality grocery store.


Why isn't the CM coming anymore? Last I checked there was a banner on the site.
I stopped going to the Tom Thumb on Hampton as soon as the VP location opened. Its actually closer to where I'm at.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 13 Nov 2019 14:31

I assume Central Market is waiting for the demographics to change enough before they actually build the Bishop Arts store. I expect to wait quite awhile. A Sprouts in the area would be most welcome. I'd prefer a Sprouts to Central Market actually, for everyday shopping anyway.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby MC_ScattCat » 13 Nov 2019 15:55

Yes Sprouts is a good everyday store. I think they will build it eventually, but I (and many others) feel like it's something we need now. We also need another Bolsa Mercado type restaurant. I miss that place!

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HarryMoto
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby HarryMoto » 13 Nov 2019 16:38

I'm kind of surprised Sprouts hasn't gotten in early in North Oak Cliff. The chain obviously has no problem with being south of I-30 since they're in Cedar Hill. You'd think they'd want to beat Central Market and, perhaps eventually Whole Foods, to the punch.

Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 13 Nov 2019 17:09

And that Cedar Hill store does quite well.

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 13 Nov 2019 17:34

I'm a little surprised too that Sprouts hasn't made a move into North OC. Judging by some of their other locations, Sprouts doesn't seem to need the same kind of average incomes that CM does to open in a neighborhood.

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 13 Nov 2019 19:53

ericthegardener wrote:I'm a little surprised too that Sprouts hasn't made a move into North OC. Judging by some of their other locations, Sprouts doesn't seem to need the same kind of average incomes that CM does to open in a neighborhood.


I'm almost certain that the El Fenix at Colorado & Beckley, where Sprouts has been rumored to go, is inside the opportunity zone for NOC. Seeing as how we now have the first development deal in town related to opportunity zones (a self-storage center in West Dallas) I don't see what could be holding this up.

Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 13 Nov 2019 21:43

A self storage center is the first development deal!?!

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ericthegardener
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby ericthegardener » 13 Nov 2019 22:02

lakewoodhobo wrote:I'm almost certain that the El Fenix at Colorado & Beckley, where Sprouts has been rumored to go, is inside the opportunity zone for NOC. Seeing as how we now have the first development deal in town related to opportunity zones (a self-storage center in West Dallas) I don't see what could be holding this up.

Do we know that El Fenix wants to sell?

lakewoodhobo
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby lakewoodhobo » 14 Nov 2019 08:22

ericthegardener wrote:Do we know that El Fenix wants to sell?


The owners seem to have hired Kairoi Residential from San Antonio (developers of Amelia Farmers Market) to build a multifamily project on the site.

IMG_5591.JPG


Tnexster wrote:A self storage center is the first development deal!?!


Sadly yes: https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... e-projects
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Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 14 Nov 2019 15:20

^That seems quite odd to me since that something like this would qualify. It is new development but most storage facilities I have ever been in have one employee that might even live onsite. That doesn't strike me as a major contributor to the local economic vitality.

Tnexster
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby Tnexster » 21 Nov 2019 15:18

Delightful ‘parlor’ La Reunion brings more coffee, cocktails, food to Oak Cliff

https://www.dallasnews.com/food/restaur ... oak-cliff/

So the retail on Bishop is filling up but the retail space along Zang sits empty.

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mwaskow
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby mwaskow » 22 Nov 2019 10:23

Tnexster wrote:Delightful ‘parlor’ La Reunion brings more coffee, cocktails, food to Oak Cliff

https://www.dallasnews.com/food/restaur ... oak-cliff/

So the retail on Bishop is filling up but the retail space along Zang sits empty.


Bishop is such a more quaint walkable street. The intersection of Davis & Zang still seems to big and busy to be a walkable hot spot. Exxir is crushing it down there. Don't know if anyone else has been to Paradiso but the vibe is amazing. They have done a really good job with Bishop St. I hope the retail on Zang at the Alamo and Crescent developments takes off. Maybe once those apartments fill up their will be more demand.

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MC_ScattCat
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Re: Oak Cliff: Bishop Arts

Postby MC_ScattCat » 22 Nov 2019 11:49

I wish they would have put white lights on the trees like Alamo did. Looks nice and inviting. They need to fix Davis though. It's dark and the street is like driving in the Baja. I'm also wondering how long the owner of that old dingy apartment complex on Bishop and 10th will hold out?


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