Knox District / Knox Park

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 02 May 2019 18:00

LongonBigD wrote:Re: RH new project. DMN says the building permits submitted were for a 3 story REstoration Hardware/restaurant with a parking garage behind and 4 stories of hotel above the garage.

Is this reporting stale? I thought we heard the plans were changed since then. Any update?

Was this a recent story? There will be no hotel. Parking below & multilevel retail above. Expect a cafe/ restaurant concept as well.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 02 May 2019 18:55

Today’s DMN. I figured this forum knew more than Steve Brown. Of course I checked just now and DMN story only mentions store and garage. Here’s the story.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... re-project

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 02 May 2019 18:59

I read that a “Guest House” will be included which is the small hotel concept.

emmasensei · Post by **emmasensei** » 02 May 2019 22:12

I also read that there will be a guest house (call it a hotel if you want) featuring all RH furniture, though it will only be 36 keys total.

And yes, a restaurant as well, though whether it will be a dedicated space or something more integrated into the showroom itself remains to be seen. From Candy's Dirt:

"I mentioned a restaurant, didn’t I? RH Galleries want to blur the line between retail and hospitality. Clearly the hotel guesthouse goes a long way with that. A restaurant goes further by exposing more people to it. The Chicago RH Gallery pitches itself almost Starbucks-y in that while there is a designated restaurant area, customers can be served in any vignette in the store. Want to while away wine with the gals one afternoon on a sofa you’re thinking of buying? Done. Think of it like Pirch, which allows customers to come in early and schedule time to try out the showers before buying. They want you to dawdle in the store because you’re spending time in an infomercial … a gorgeous, tasty infomercial."

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 07 May 2019 21:45

747E8481-21C8-4F2D-8ADA-6E897B707311.jpeg

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 07 May 2019 21:46

Mecox down. Sangria next & then the old RH.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 08 May 2019 09:23

Knox about be a construction crane nesting ground.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 15 May 2019 22:40

They are starting to remove the cool, old (and leaky) windows from the RH store (old Packard (?) dealership) prior to demo. That building also has some interesting ironwork on the top and sides or is that cast stone?

I can only imagine that any salvaged parts are destined for one of those architectural resale shops. Isn’t that the original inspiration for Restoration Hardware? If so, very appropriate.

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 25 May 2019 09:00

Officially flattened. Ready for a new structure.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 25 May 2019 11:55

Knox is gonna be a mess for a few years and it will soon be taller after the dust settles. I know of another project in the wings as well...

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 25 May 2019 11:57

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Knox is gonna be a mess for a few years and it will soon be taller after the dust settles. I know of another project in the wings as well...

Do tell.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 25 May 2019 12:02

Until I see something on paper which I am not privy too there is no need to get into details since they are more likely to change. I would keep an eye on construction permits though cause I think they already have the needed zoning with the existing property.

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 25 May 2019 12:54

^^^ would this be On the Border redevelopment?? ^^^

Jbarn · Post by **Jbarn** » 25 May 2019 16:15

^^^or perhaps redevelopment of the 7-11 lot which has been under development for years now.

DallasMan · Post by **DallasMan** » 30 May 2019 10:34

All the development along Knox is exciting, but Knox always had a Main Street feel that made it unique. I think it'll be a cool street once all this is done, but it will have lost some cool vibes as well.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 02 Jun 2019 18:58

They have a rendering attached the fencing for the new RH. It’s a frontal shot, so no hint if the project still includes the RH Guesthouse.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 02 Jun 2019 21:12

LongonBigD wrote:They have a rendering attached the fencing for the new RH. It’s a frontal shot, so no hint if the project still includes the RH Guesthouse.

This is a pretty disappointing design in my opinion. All the other new style locations are a floor higher, with better architecture. This looks much plainer and is essentially just adding one more story of floor space, and a rooftop. Looks acceptable but bland compared to the new locations in Denver, Austin, and even places like Nashville.

dukemeredith · Post by **dukemeredith** » 03 Jun 2019 10:58

That render reminds me of Knox Street. That's a good thing.

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 03 Jun 2019 17:21

Matt777 wrote:
LongonBigD wrote:They have a rendering attached the fencing for the new RH. It’s a frontal shot, so no hint if the project still includes the RH Guesthouse.

There will be no RH GUESTHOUSE as part of this project. PERIOD.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 03 Jun 2019 18:08

NdoorTX wrote:
Matt777 wrote:
LongonBigD wrote:They have a rendering attached the fencing for the new RH. It’s a frontal shot, so no hint if the project still includes the RH Guesthouse.
There will be no RH GUESTHOUSE as part of this project. PERIOD.

So we get 3 buildings torn up, the mess that will come for that for a couple years, and none of the RH Guesthouse that they initially proposed, and one of the lowest density, least ornate structures they have built recently. Were they given a zoning change for this? Seems like Knox Street is getting shafted.

Also, none of the design says "Knox" to me. The stores they have in Austin and Denver look much more like historic architecture, similar to how ornate Highland Park Soda Fountain's building is. This render looks like an overgrown strip mall. It's spread over what used to be multiple businesses, too. Low density.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 03 Jun 2019 18:36

Yeah, the quote in the Dallas Morning News article says the following:

Retailer Restoration Hardware is replacing its longtime store with a three-story retail building with a restaurant on the top floor. The 100,000-plus-square-foot project will also include a parking garage, according to building permits.

Doesn't sound like an RH guest house to me either. So will the building actually cover the entire property? The quote above says garage but that seems like a lot of land for just the gallery and restaurant on top to fill the whole site. Will we get a big ole Valet stand and parking lot on the back side?

dukemeredith · Post by **dukemeredith** » 03 Jun 2019 18:56

The RH showrooms in both Denver and Austin look good in promotional photos taken from a block away.

But these pictures, the Denver and Austin showrooms look overpowering when viewed from street-level. I chose these pictures to show what the buildings look like next to humans. They’re three stories; but they’re big.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 03 Jun 2019 19:05

RH sure seems to love its stucco.

Post by **Tnexster** » 03 Jun 2019 20:22

I like the Dallas proposal.

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 03 Jun 2019 21:04

The last article I read mentioned the guest house over the garage. Hmmm

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 04 Jun 2019 21:43

DMN and D Magazine have both done stories about the rendering attached to the construction fence. No new information there.

The Charlotte Business Journal ran this story back in January stating it was “potential plans” for a center there. The rendering appears to be the Dallas Knox RH with some grass out front.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/n ... llips.html

And then there’s this from Charlotte Agenda:

https://www.charlotteagenda.com/156257/ ... southpark/

What gives? This got me to wondering. Perhaps we are just getting a generic RH Gallery building. Looking at RH website, this design appears to also be the West Hollywood store and the Leawood (Kansas City) look. If so, that’s very disappointing for Knox Street considering what could have been.

Guess we shouldn’t be that surprised or disappointed, the Austin store sure looks like a smaller version of the Las Vegas store which looks a lot like Denver.

willyk · Post by **willyk** » 05 Jun 2019 02:08

Looks a lot better than the Willow Bend store.

https://images.app.goo.gl/N1oUD1omriMpLUxH8

khres · Post by **khres** » 05 Jun 2019 08:55

LongonBigD wrote: What gives? This got me to wondering. Perhaps we are just getting a generic RH Gallery building. Looking at RH website, this design appears to also be the West Hollywood store and the Leawood (Kansas City) look. If so, that’s very disappointing for Knox Street considering what could have been.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. One of the companies most recent earnings letters says:
"We’ve also made further improvements to our real estate development model, and continue to reduce capital requirements for future Galleries by improving deal economics and lowering construction costs. While all of our new Galleries scheduled to open in fiscal 2019 are under construction, we were able to lower capital requirements for three of the five new Galleries planned for next year, and the vast majority of future projects."

Now that they've proven out the larger gallery format stores work, they're naturally as a business going to try and boil it down to a simpler form to get a better return on capital. If you look at their stock price they were on a pretty significant rise from Jan '17 - Mid '18 and have somewhat languished/recently had trouble. Building very ornate stores when not necessarily needed doesn't help that, even though it's definitely disappointing for knox.

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 06 Jun 2019 10:33

4802 Mckinney Avenue has a demo fence around it...rumor is 6 stories

NdoorTX · Post by **NdoorTX** » 06 Jun 2019 10:43

Weirs also has a fence wrapping around the building as of yesterday. Looks like demo on that structure will happen soon. It's a race between RH & Weirs!

Post by **lakewoodhobo** » 06 Jun 2019 10:47

LongonBigD wrote:Perhaps we are just getting a generic RH Gallery building. Looking at RH website, this design appears to also be the West Hollywood store and the Leawood (Kansas City) look. If so, that’s very disappointing for Knox Street considering what could have been.

I don't hate the generic design either, especially if they use the same materials as the West Hollywood store.

Screen Shot 2019-06-05 at 2.31.30 PM.jpg

khres · Post by **khres** » 06 Jun 2019 11:43

lakewoodhobo wrote:
LongonBigD wrote:Perhaps we are just getting a generic RH Gallery building. Looking at RH website, this design appears to also be the West Hollywood store and the Leawood (Kansas City) look. If so, that’s very disappointing for Knox Street considering what could have been.
I don't hate the generic design either, especially if they use the same materials as the West Hollywood store.

Screen Shot 2019-06-05 at 2.31.30 PM.jpg

I think the materials look a lot better in their promo shots than real life. Here's a couple google streetviews of the West Hollywood store. The stucco looks cheap and already aging poorly

Capture2.PNG

Capture.PNG

Dmkflyer · Post by **Dmkflyer** » 06 Jun 2019 12:21

cowboyeagle05 wrote:4802 Mckinney Avenue has a demo fence around it...rumor is 6 stories

Actually, it's more than one address and I believe is all or almost all of the entire stretch from Hester to Chelsea Corner

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 06 Jun 2019 13:53

Yikes, that RH in West Hollywood is even uglier up close. I prefer modern design personally, but these materials make the modern design look cheap and dirty.

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 06 Jun 2019 15:03

Matt777 wrote:Yikes, that RH in West Hollywood is even uglier up close. I prefer modern design personally, but these materials make the modern design look cheap and dirty.

You could say the same thing about 75-90% of everything built in Southern California; cheap and dirty. The Weho Restoration Hardware is on the better/nicer side, but with that cheap-ass stucco it's still not great.

muncien · Post by **muncien** » 06 Jun 2019 15:04

eburress wrote:
Matt777 wrote:Yikes, that RH in West Hollywood is even uglier up close. I prefer modern design personally, but these materials make the modern design look cheap and dirty.
You could say the same thing about 75-90% of everything built in Southern California; cheap and dirty. The Weho Restoration Hardware is on the better/nicer side, but with that cheap-ass stucco it's still not great.

OMG... I was about to say almost the exact same thing. "Cheap and dirty" pretty much defines SoCal

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 06 Jun 2019 15:11

Dmkflyer wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:4802 Mckinney Avenue has a demo fence around it...rumor is 6 stories
Actually, it's more than one address and I believe is all or almost all of the entire stretch from Hester to Chelsea Corner

I remember this. The original proposal was about 15 stories with maybe 6 stories of garage all above ground. Clearly they revised the plan. Good luck trying to drive or walk in or around Knox for the next two years!!

eburress · Post by **eburress** » 06 Jun 2019 15:56

This will be such a cool neighborhood once all these projects are done.

Warrior2015 · Post by **Warrior2015** » 11 Jun 2019 22:34

Did the weir furniture project start yet?

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 12 Jun 2019 09:11

Warrior2015 wrote:Did the weir furniture project start yet?

The site is completely fenced in. Internal demolition has begun.

Once again, the City of Dallas seems to have no idea how to manage the developers and their jobsites. All the parking spaces in front of and beside both jobsites (RH and Weirs) remain in use, but there is no sidewalk. Pedestrians are walking in a traffic lane on Knox Street and Cole. I'm sure eventually the parking spaces will be INSIDE the fences as well, but how about a wooden enclosure like you see....I don't know....IN EVERY OTHER CITY IN THE WORLD for pedestrians in our most walkable neighborhood outside of DT. Exit soapbox.

The_Overdog · Post by **The_Overdog** » 12 Jun 2019 12:47

I will never understand the hate for stucco on this site. I find it fascinating.

Matt777 · Post by **Matt777** » 12 Jun 2019 13:04

The_Overdog wrote:I will never understand the hate for stucco on this site. I find it fascinating.

I think most of the hate is for EIFS which looks like stucco, not real stucco. The hate on this design is because it's ugly and cheap looking.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 12 Jun 2019 14:17

The_Overdog wrote:I will never understand the hate for stucco on this site. I find it fascinating.

My disdain for stucco is not for those type of aesthetic reasons. It has been my experience that it is not properly installed around here and then leaks like a sieve, cracks, and becomes discolored easily. This material works great in the desert where it hardly ever rains, not so much in Texas, IMHO.

jsoto3 · Post by **jsoto3** » 13 Jun 2019 22:22

Stucco on wood sheathing (especially OSB) is risky business in climates with an annual rainfall of 20 inches or more. The best design/construction practice these days is to install a drainage mat between the stucco and the sheathing to relieve hydrostatic pressure on the sheathing and accommodate vapor diffusion and wall drying. I have yet to see this happen here in Dallas where we receive 34+ inches of rainfall annually.

Building science expert says we should prepare for the coming Stucco-Pocalypse:
https://www.treehugger.com/green-archit ... lypse.html
https://www.buildingscience.com/documen ... -pocalypse

Here are couple of recent posts by local building envelope consultant Christine Williamson highlighting this issue:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByNDEYiAyvB/
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByND7dXgEgH/

The_Overdog · Post by **The_Overdog** » 18 Jun 2019 09:23

So did anyone see HB2439? It eliminates any local control for exterior building facades for buildings except as mandated by the International Building Code. Ground floor EIFS is currently against local codes in most DFW cites (only allowed above 2nd story), most cities have masonry percentages above 50% and serious limitations on those metal panels, and have outlawed 2 step stucco.

On the residential front, most have codes that any accessory buildings must match the main the main building in architectural style and materials.

All that is gone if this bill is passed.

joshua.dodd · Post by **joshua.dodd** » 18 Jun 2019 16:40

jsoto3 wrote:Stucco on wood sheathing (especially OSB) is risky business in climates with an annual rainfall of 20 inches or more. The best design/construction practice these days is to install a drainage mat between the stucco and the sheathing to relieve hydrostatic pressure on the sheathing and accommodate vapor diffusion and wall drying. I have yet to see this happen here in Dallas where we receive 34+ inches of rainfall annually.

Building science expert says we should prepare for the coming Stucco-Pocalypse:
https://www.treehugger.com/green-archit ... lypse.html
https://www.buildingscience.com/documen ... -pocalypse

Here are couple of recent posts by local building envelope consultant Christine Williamson highlighting this issue:
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByNDEYiAyvB/
https://www.instagram.com/p/ByND7dXgEgH/

Thank you for these links. Not only does it affirm my incredulity toward stucco and contemporary construction with these new buildings, but it's also profoundly informative.

joshua.dodd · Post by **joshua.dodd** » 21 Jun 2019 14:13

LongonBigD wrote:
Dmkflyer wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:4802 Mckinney Avenue has a demo fence around it...rumor is 6 stories
Actually, it's more than one address and I believe is all or almost all of the entire stretch from Hester to Chelsea Corner
I remember this. The original proposal was about 15 stories with maybe 6 stories of garage all above ground. Clearly they revised the plan. Good luck trying to drive or walk in or around Knox for the next two years!!

Why did they diminish the original concept so much?

Post by **cowboyeagle05** » 22 Jun 2019 11:40

Cause it was shown on top of a huge above ground garage which the Oak Lawn committee was appalled at. I doubt the developer ever intended to build the larger project. Problay already had a smaller project in mind and wanted to see what kind of push back he would get from the Oak Lawn committee. Smaller makes sense for Knox.

LongonBigD · Post by **LongonBigD** » 22 Jun 2019 13:04

I agree that they probably never intended to go that high, but they needed a variance to get the height they settled on. 1) Submit a proposal to build a huge above ground garage. 2) Wait until OLC shoots it down 3) offer a “compromise” sans the hideously tall garage that gets you 7-8 stories you always intended.

This height seems a better fit for now. When we get to a point where more height and density is required, time to demolish those 3-4 story garden apts on the north side of Knox.

R1070 · Post by **R1070** » 24 Jun 2019 16:10

What is the crane on the far North end of McKinney Ave for?