No doubt... I-345 is honestly the least disruptive element of this walk. There are so many simple/cheap things that can be done to address this. Simply extending a wide sidewalk along the south side of Commerce with decent trees w/grating along the street to create a buffer and provide shade, and some lighting would be fantastic. I'm always surprised that huge lot hasn't been built on yet...mcrdal15 wrote:Great update! Funny I was down there on Saturday, but didn't go in the Statler (I've been in there a few times before). I definitely agree with the center of Downtown really coming alive. The walk (or bike or scooter ride) from the Statler to Deep Ellum isn't too far; however, the sidewalk infrastructure on Commerce near and below I-345 is horrendously bad. Main is the only halfway "safe" one under I-345 if you're trying to walk from DT to DE.DPatel304 wrote:I don't really have an update/announcement regarding Downtown Dallas, but I just wanted to say that I hung out in Downtown last Saturday for dinner/drinks and I was really impressed at how lively it all was. We had dinner at Americano, then walked over to the Statler for drinks at Scout (which was very busy). We attempted to check out Waterproof after Scout, but by the time we wanted to check it out, a huge line of about 30 people had formed waiting to get in. There was a decent amount of activity along Main Street and the Statler appears to be a huge hit.
I've always been hesitant to say that Downtown has turned the corner is no longer a ghost town, but I feel very confident in making that claim now. I know it's been decently lively for a couple years now, but, in the back of my mind, there was always the worry that a recession or a few failed projects might set us back. But with the way things are looking now, and with the upcoming developments, I think Downtown is going to get pretty lively in the next few years. In particular, I think the Discovery District and Pacific Plaza Park are going to create some serious activity once completed.
Downtown Dallas Retail
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I was thinking about that this past weekend as well. I think it depends on time of day. Saturday nights are definitely a lot livelier. I was at ChopHouse Burger Sunday afternoon, and overheard a tourist asking the server why there weren't that many people downtown. Yeah, there are more people around even on a Sunday, but to outsiders, it still might seem a little empty.DPatel304 wrote:I've always been hesitant to say that Downtown has turned the corner is no longer a ghost town, but I feel very confident in making that claim now.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Yeah, that's a good point. When I say that Downtown was 'lively', it's really just relative to what it was several years ago. Also, in my experience going Downtown, it's been hit or miss. In the past, it was more miss than 'hit', but the past year or so, it seems to be shifting the other way and the few times I do happen to make it out to Downtown, it's been decently lively (by Dallas's standards). Compared to most other major Downtowns, it still has a long ways to go, but I do believe we are past the hardest part. Once Discovery District, Pacific Park Plaza, and East Quarter are all completed, we'll be in pretty good shape.mdg109 wrote:I was thinking about that this past weekend as well. I think it depends on time of day. Saturday nights are definitely a lot livelier. I was at ChopHouse Burger Sunday afternoon, and overheard a tourist asking the server why there weren't that many people downtown. Yeah, there are more people around even on a Sunday, but to outsiders, it still might seem a little empty.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Was out tonight at around 8pm. Chop House burger was packed, Main Street was lively, and Stone Street Garden patios were pretty full.
Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Didn't the building owner have to jump through some hoops in order to add the balcony for the Woolworth? This seems like the same type of addition and we haven't heard anything.mdg109 wrote:Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
The owner of this building is Headington, isn't it? I doubt he ever has to jump through any hoops. Seems to have carte blanche. He demolished some of the oldest buildings in Dallas without any pain whatsoever. I think it's fairly clear with recent developments that most of City Hall can be bought.lakewoodhobo wrote:Didn't the building owner have to jump through some hoops in order to add the balcony for the Woolworth? This seems like the same type of addition and we haven't heard anything.mdg109 wrote:Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
By the way, this "balcony" looks fugly and totally ruins what was a lovely, older building facade.Matt777 wrote:The owner of this building is Headington, isn't it? I doubt he ever has to jump through any hoops. Seems to have carte blanche. He demolished some of the oldest buildings in Dallas without any pain whatsoever. I think it's fairly clear with recent developments that most of City Hall can be bought.lakewoodhobo wrote:Didn't the building owner have to jump through some hoops in order to add the balcony for the Woolworth? This seems like the same type of addition and we haven't heard anything.mdg109 wrote:Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
My understanding was that it's still owned by the original people (Stone Place Mall LLC or whatever). Headington is just leasing this one.Matt777 wrote:The owner of this building is Headington, isn't it? I doubt he ever has to jump through any hoops. Seems to have carte blanche. He demolished some of the oldest buildings in Dallas without any pain whatsoever. I think it's fairly clear with recent developments that most of City Hall can be bought.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Rumor is Headington has the entire thing under contract pending completion of building improvements. Includes this building and the Woolworth building.lakewoodhobo wrote:My understanding was that it's still owned by the original people (Stone Place Mall LLC or whatever). Headington is just leasing this one.Matt777 wrote:The owner of this building is Headington, isn't it? I doubt he ever has to jump through any hoops. Seems to have carte blanche. He demolished some of the oldest buildings in Dallas without any pain whatsoever. I think it's fairly clear with recent developments that most of City Hall can be bought.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
What exactly are headingtons plans anyway?...I never hear anything about what they want to do with all these properties.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
That wouldn't surprise me or anyone else one bit; however, I'll be really upset if this results in Campisi's leaving.Jay9398 wrote:Rumor is Headington has the entire thing under contract pending completion of building improvements. Includes this building and the Woolworth building.
At this point it's sounding like he wants to run a food hall.Tivo_Kenevil wrote:What exactly are headingtons plans anyway?...I never hear anything about what they want to do with all these properties.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
If it's anything close to what he's pulled off at The Commissary, I'm all in for that. He'll get bonus credit if he never refers to it as a "food hall".lakewoodhobo wrote:At this point it's sounding like he wants to run a food hall.Tivo_Kenevil wrote:What exactly are headingtons plans anyway?...I never hear anything about what they want to do with all these properties.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Agreed, but there is a ton of space in the CBD. Perhaps they could just move close by like what City Tavern is doing, which is perfectly fine with me.lakewoodhobo wrote:That wouldn't surprise me or anyone else one bit; however, I'll be really upset if this results in Campisi's leaving.
This would be pretty awesome if it did end up happening. Great location for one, and the building is the right size and scale.lakewoodhobo wrote:At this point it's sounding like he wants to run a food hall.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Yes, these two buildings are in the Stone Street Historic District so any modifications have to go through Landmark Commission. Headington's group even had to get approval to expand the walkways a few years ago because the "street" itself is historic. It looks like the historic awning roof was removed from the side of the building? The Woolworth had to go through many reviews to create something simple that does not mask the building and is completely removable.lakewoodhobo wrote:Didn't the building owner have to jump through some hoops in order to add the balcony for the Woolworth? This seems like the same type of addition and we haven't heard anything.mdg109 wrote:Status update on the former Sol Irlandes building: looks like they added a balcony to the patio area.
Stone Street Historic District: http://dallascityhall.com/departments/s ... treet.aspx
City Search: https://dallascityhall.com/departments/ ... h-CAs.aspx
EDIT: this was approved by Landmark Commission, with discussion dating back to November 2015.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
The Mexican restaurant opening in the base of The Metropolitan looks close to opening, and will be called Twisted Trompo. It sounds like they are the new concept of a gas station taco chain called Bachman Tacos, and will use this branding to expand:
https://twistedtrompo.com/about-us/
https://twistedtrompo.com/about-us/
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
^Is this replacing anything, or has that space just been empty? I don't remember anything being here previously.
EDIT: Just checked the spot on google streetview, and it looks like it has always been empty.
EDIT: Just checked the spot on google streetview, and it looks like it has always been empty.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Yup! Another long empty retail space fills up! Now if only Neiman's would fix up and lease the space they have across the street at the base of their parking garage..... the "NEW RETAIL/OFFICE SPACE COMING 2004" banner still outside it is embarrassing and the space looks positively derelict! Hell, I'd even take an IHOP or some chain to fill it up for all of the hundreds of hotel rooms that now surround it! However, an Original Pancake House, Cindi's Deli, Breadwinners, or Mama's Daughters would be better. I honestly think that's exactly what that space needs and it wouldn't pull a penny from Neiman's sales.DPatel304 wrote:^Is this replacing anything, or has that space just been empty? I don't remember anything being here previously.
EDIT: Just checked the spot on google streetview, and it looks like it has always been empty.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Downtown is finally hitting its stride, so I have no doubt that space will be filled up within a year or so. It's not too far from the upcoming Discovery District, which should add a ton of activity to the area.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
This is good. The bachman lake tacos are great. I buy the party trompo meat tray for $120. Great value. I hope they are open late and inexpensive....I feel like these spaces don't lease since they're not updated and the rent is too high.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
A good Taco joint is exactly what hoteliers will love if they do it right. When people come to Texas they want Tacos, Tex-Mex, and Barbeque with Margaritas.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I've never really liked BBQ, and, like, when a Texas pro-sport team in competing for the big title, I do not understand why, when municipal leaders ceremoniously bet on the outcome, the ones in Texas always wager BBQ. That's just lame. A delicious plate of tacos, enchiladas, beans and rice is way better.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Some deliciously smoked Brisket is my preference. I'll be excited to try the Brisket Tacos.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
When I think of brisket, gross globs of fat is the first thing that comes to mind. Gag me with a spoon, totally
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- dukemeredith
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
tamtagon wrote:When I think of brisket, gross globs of fat is the first thing that comes to mind. Gag me with a spoon, totally.
I presume a great many folks love Texas BBQ, including me. In fact, Texas brisket was one of the things I was most looking forward to before moving here a few years ago from North Carolina. “Globs” of fat, especially.
Live and let live, tamtagon.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I did Keto and lost 20lbs so fat is not my enemy nor are healthy fats to anyone for that matter. I can imagine the smell if there was a real down-home place smoking brisket or any other BBQ in the CBD. It's already bad enough to walk in Deep Ellum near Pecan Lodge and not want to beg for scraps when a line is out the door.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
hahaha i know that's rightdukemeredith wrote:tamtagon wrote:When I think of brisket, gross globs of fat is the first thing that comes to mind. Gag me with a spoon, totally.
I presume a great many folks love Texas BBQ, including me. In fact, Texas brisket was one of the things I was most looking forward to before moving here a few years ago from North Carolina. “Globs” of fat, especially.
Live and let live, tamtagon.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
That lowkey made my mouth water.tamtagon wrote:When I think of brisket, gross globs of fat is the first thing that comes to mind. Gag me with a spoon, totallygross globs of fat.jpg.
Fat=flavor
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
reminds me of a group I like, Throbbing Gristle
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theaterThe time is upon us.
The LAST weekend for CITY TAVERN at it's Main Street location will be THIS Labor Day Weekend.
Sad face.
So come give us a hug, say goodbye and drink us dry!
Our last day will be MONDAY September 3rd but we have awesome shows from some of our favorites lined up from Thursday to Sunday!
We love y'all!
From the City Tavern Facebook page. No word on when their new location will be opening, but I'm curious to see what takes the place of City Tavern.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Bummer, but this is the spot for a sports bar. DTD needs a casual after work drink spot.DPatel304 wrote:https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theaterThe time is upon us.
The LAST weekend for CITY TAVERN at it's Main Street location will be THIS Labor Day Weekend.
Sad face.
So come give us a hug, say goodbye and drink us dry!
Our last day will be MONDAY September 3rd but we have awesome shows from some of our favorites lined up from Thursday to Sunday!
We love y'all!
From the City Tavern Facebook page. No word on when their new location will be opening, but I'm curious to see what takes the place of City Tavern.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
A few months ago, when I asked them about this, they indicated that they planned on making it a very quick move. Like, a week or so... Not sure if that's still in the cards as it seems aggressive, and a lot of time has passed since then, but that's what they mentioned. FWIW
This has always been my favorite downtown spot. But I must say... I miss their old menu. I know the stuff they have now is supposed to be more fresh, and 'better'... But sometimes I just want 'Bar Food', and those Stuffed Jalapenos and that huge 'Nacho' were the best... not to mention the old 'Veggie Sandwich'. Memories...
This has always been my favorite downtown spot. But I must say... I miss their old menu. I know the stuff they have now is supposed to be more fresh, and 'better'... But sometimes I just want 'Bar Food', and those Stuffed Jalapenos and that huge 'Nacho' were the best... not to mention the old 'Veggie Sandwich'. Memories...
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Good to know. This doesn't surprise me, as this moved seemed very intentional and seemed like it was something being planned for a while.muncien wrote:A few months ago, when I asked them about this, they indicated that they planned on making it a very quick move. Like, a week or so... Not sure if that's still in the cards as it seems aggressive, and a lot of time has passed since then, but that's what they mentioned. FWIW
Isn't this moving to the new retail spots underneath the Mid Elm lofts?
They will still be in the area, they are just moving to Elm St, which is totally fine with me. This bar seems popular enough to draw the same crowds on Elm street, so now Elm St gets a bit of a bump in activity, and, hopefully, we get something good to take its place on Main.ContriveDallasite wrote:Bummer, but this is the spot for a sports bar. DTD needs a casual after work drink spot.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I was told over the weekend that it will be 2-3 weeks after the current Tavern location closes before the new one will open. It is going into the Western-most portion of the Mid-Elm redo, right next to the Kirby garage.
On another note, there's a new restaurant/grocery/bar open at KPMG Plaza, above Flora Street Cafe on the sculpture plaza (of course I've already forgotten the name). We were peeking in the windows on Sunday morning and the chef came out to chat.
They opened Monday and will be in soft-open mode through most of September. They will serve packaged foods and have cold cases for meats and cheeses and such. They also will have an upstairs lounge area with a rooftop bar open until 2 AM. Sounds like something that should be good for office folks, neighbors, and the theater crowd.
On another note, there's a new restaurant/grocery/bar open at KPMG Plaza, above Flora Street Cafe on the sculpture plaza (of course I've already forgotten the name). We were peeking in the windows on Sunday morning and the chef came out to chat.
They opened Monday and will be in soft-open mode through most of September. They will serve packaged foods and have cold cases for meats and cheeses and such. They also will have an upstairs lounge area with a rooftop bar open until 2 AM. Sounds like something that should be good for office folks, neighbors, and the theater crowd.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.joshua.dodd wrote:Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
Your experience seems anecdotal.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Which businesses are saying that?joshua.dodd wrote:Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I'm in Downtown working every night. I see them everywhere in growing numbers.Tivo_Kenevil wrote:While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.joshua.dodd wrote:Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
Your experience seems anecdotal.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Do you think downtown is finally lively?Tivo_Kenevil wrote:While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.joshua.dodd wrote:Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
Your experience seems anecdotal.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
There's definitely a palpable difference especially on weekends. Still have a little bit more density is needed.Warrior2015 wrote:Do you think downtown is finally lively?Tivo_Kenevil wrote:While there homeless people I've Never seen them camp out on sidewalks or go in public. The downtown patrol is good about policing that. Only the stew pot and the presbyteryian church has that problem. I'm in DT all-day everyday.joshua.dodd wrote:Is the city going to do anything about the homeless situation? Downtown Dallas is starting to turn into a shithole with homeless camping out on the sidewalks and literally shitting on the streets. It's becoming a serious problem. And from what I have heard, many businesses are wanting to relocate away from Downtown because of it.
Your experience seems anecdotal.
As for the homeless population. Yes, they're there; but it's not SF or LA level. The city can only do so much; there has to be help from other agencies.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I work downtown 5 days a week I have seen no uptick in negative activity from the homeless and I have a view of their activities every day being across from an active bus stop near a 7Eleven and work with multiple ground floor businesses that deal with their behavior on a regular basis. Bathroom requests by the homeless and near homeless are our biggest nuisance. In fact, I have had to make fewer phone calls in the last 6 months to Safety Patrol to deal with problematic homeless. While they are a problem and I still support the city's and private efforts to solve the homeless problem I have not seen anything more than the usual. All the homeless problems our retailers have had to deal with are always those that are not mentally stable and wander around screaming/arguing or acting out in scary ways along the sidewalk. The mentally unstable homeless is the hardest problem for any homeless assistance program to solve.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Not open yet, but saw several people trying to go in for food, haha.
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Finish-out looks great, especially the high ceilings and colorful mural.mdg109 wrote:Photo Sep 10, 19 26 14.jpgNot open yet, but saw several people trying to go in for food, haha.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Agreed, that spot looks awesome. A great street-level option for sure.lakewoodhobo wrote:Finish-out looks great, especially the colorful mural.mdg109 wrote:Photo Sep 10, 19 26 14.jpgNot open yet, but saw several people trying to go in for food, haha.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
That looks nice, and close enough to try out for lunch.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
A New Neighborhood Bar Will Replace City Tavern
No word on when this new bar will open, but it sounds promising thus far.
https://dallas.eater.com/2018/9/12/1784 ... orhood-barDowntown bar City Tavern has vacated its Main Street space for new digs on Elm Street, and a new neighborhood bar is in the works for the building.
The new bar at 1402 Main Street is a project of Buffalo and Hare Restaurant Development Group, which operates the Mitchell in Downtown and On Premise in Deep Ellum. Buffalo and Hare owner Adam Salazar, who also owns the building at 1402 Main, tells Eater that he’s planning to revamp the space into a neighborhood bar that sounds a whole lot like the one that just left.
No word on when this new bar will open, but it sounds promising thus far.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Other than a blurry visit to City Tavern a few weeks ago, it has been a while since I hung out around here... But I was curious... Is One Eyed Penguin still a place? Did/Does Adam Salazar own that as well (or, at least as a landlord)?
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."
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Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
I imagine I've had to run across you, muncien, and some others as well and just not known it. There are already about a dozen other forumers I've met there by complete coincidence, only half of those I regularly see, though. I mean, damn, I went to the old location so much (oops) I couldn't even unsling my backpack after entering the door for the first time and Alicia/Jen/etc. already slammed down my beer sometimes. Haha, even worse, one time I delayed walking in to talk on the patio and the beer was just brought out to me. Yeah, City Tavern is kinda cool like that. Looking forward to the new digs! I think someone here is still a Foursquare/Swarm "editor", let's get that address changed as soon as they're open! ; )
Oh, and OEP is still a place as far as I know as of a couple of weeks ago. I forget the name all the time of the ownership (I wonder why) of that place and if they were the same people that tried to go in at the bottom corner slot in the Davis Bldg. by Money Alley. Probably mixing it up a tad.
Oh, and OEP is still a place as far as I know as of a couple of weeks ago. I forget the name all the time of the ownership (I wonder why) of that place and if they were the same people that tried to go in at the bottom corner slot in the Davis Bldg. by Money Alley. Probably mixing it up a tad.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
OEP is still a place. Adam Salazar owns that building and the adjacent City Tavern building. He was indeed the same person that was giving the bottom corner of the Davis Building a go. I don't know all the details there, but the timing of the Tavern move announcement and him pulling out of the Davis building was... interesting. IIRC it was the exact same day.CTroyMathis wrote:Oh, and OEP is still a place as far as I know as of a couple of weeks ago. I forget the name all the time of the ownership (I wonder why) of that place and if they were the same people that tried to go in at the bottom corner slot in the Davis Bldg. by Money Alley. Probably mixing it up a tad.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
New eatery and market is dishing casual fare in Dallas' Arts District. Called The Artisan, it's a new restaurant concept at KPMG Plaza at Hall Arts, located on the Texas Sculpture Walk, where it joins Flora Street Cafe and Musume, the Asian-fusion restaurant.
http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... -district/The Artisan Terrace Bar will be open Friday and Saturday evenings and will offer cocktails such as The Artisan Martini made with strawberries and balsamic, a jalapeno-cilantro mule, raspberry margarita, cucumber collins, vanilla old-gashioned, wine, and local and craft beer.
A new, casual eatery coming to the Arts District, and it looks like it'll stay open later on Fri/Sat and serve drinks as well.
Re: Downtown Dallas Retail
Looks great! Open until 10:00 Friday and Saturday nights!DPatel304 wrote:New eatery and market is dishing casual fare in Dallas' Arts District. Called The Artisan, it's a new restaurant concept at KPMG Plaza at Hall Arts, located on the Texas Sculpture Walk, where it joins Flora Street Cafe and Musume, the Asian-fusion restaurant.http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/resta ... -district/The Artisan Terrace Bar will be open Friday and Saturday evenings and will offer cocktails such as The Artisan Martini made with strawberries and balsamic, a jalapeno-cilantro mule, raspberry margarita, cucumber collins, vanilla old-gashioned, wine, and local and craft beer.
A new, casual eatery coming to the Arts District, and it looks like it'll stay open later on Fri/Sat and serve drinks as well.