Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Cambrick Street meets the Katy Trail about halfway between David's Way at Knox and Snyder's Union, our largest plaza on the Trail. More specifically you can find it north of Fitzhugh and south of Blackburn streets. For those that participate in the Katy 5K, it is the entrance that takes the route off the streets and on to the Katy Trail so expect a warmer welcome to the Katy Trail when you participate this year! (More on our 20th Anniversary Katy 5K coming soon!)

This project has been part of our master plan for quite some time and we are thrilled to be able to turn this long-term goal into reality. The timeline on this project is 90 days making the completion date sometime in late April. As always, safety is on the forefront and we will be taking precautions to ensure Katy Trail users experience as little disruption as possible. The Katy Trail will remain open in this section during construction.

http://fokt.convio.net/site/MessageView ... _id=8943.0

A short and simple project, but looks like it will make a world of a difference.

This was posted in the Uptown thread, but it's also relevant to this thread:

The Dallas City Council agreed Wednesday to sell a Routh Street dead-end to the Katy Trail Ice House for almost a quarter of a million dollars — over the objections of the council member who represents that part of town.

The Ice House agreed to pay the city $225,358 for the small stretch of Routh that runs into the trail off Woodrow Avenue, where the red Missouri-Kansas-Texas Railroad car's parked. The zoning consultants from Dallas firm Masterplan, representing the popular hangout's ownership, said the Ice House wants to merge the two pieces of properties it owns along the trail that are divided by the dead-end. Dallas Cothrum, Masterplan's CEO, said the Ice House needs to expand its kitchen.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... -ice-house

I have high expectations for this plot of land. This is a decent sized lot, connected to a high-energy area that could potentially attract a lot of foot traffic to the area (which is rare in Dallas). I really hope they don't screw this up.

Saw this on the Katy Trail today. Anyone heard anything about this? It looked like they have likely been working on this for a little while as I could see a staircase behind the fence.

Where does that tie in?

Behind Bleu Ciel.

connects the Trail directly to the Harwood district which in that area is under served with entrance access.

DPatel304 wrote:
Saw this on the Katy Trail today. Anyone heard anything about this? It looked like they have likely been working on this for a little while as I could see a staircase behind the fence.

Wow, finally!

they'll probably start scouting around for city dollars to get a trail extension through their properties soon(ish)

I got excited when I saw the word 'monumental'. I was hoping for an extension of some sorts or another amenity deck. This is still a fine upgrade, but, personally, I'm pretty indifferent about it.

Victory Park and the Design District May Soon Have a Trail Connecting Them
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... ting-them/

I read this article with some suspicion and today I see that Philip Kingston is not happy about it, so is this proposal a replacement for the Trinity Strand Trail Connector? What I'm seeing is a new set of stairs at Houston and Victory Ave, then some bike lanes under Stemmons Fwy.

Disaster. No one wants that stupid on grade bike lane except consultants who want to eat through the budget. This is not what was presented to City Hall when the board of that organization came for public funding. Very sad and awful plan.

People won't use it!

With some clean up, lighting, a decent sponsor, and some security cameras, the existing creek bed below grade could make an excellent connector from Trinity Strand to Katy Trail. It really boggles me why we continue to avoid the obvious.

lakewoodhobo wrote:Victory Park and the Design District May Soon Have a Trail Connecting Them


I read this article with some suspicion and today I see that Philip Kingston is not happy about it, so is this proposal a replacement for the Trinity Strand Trail Connector? What I'm seeing is a new set of stairs at Houston and Victory Ave, then some bike lanes under Stemmons Fwy.

There is already a path down from the overlook a few hundred yards to the north. In addition on Hi Line there are already wide sidewalks in place. Running another sidewalk down the median is redundant. This organization should not seek TIF funding for that. Since the I-35 interface is virtually on-street and scary why bother with a bridge over Oak Lawn?

Not to mention this extremely unnecessary bridge over Oak Lawn at Hi Line. Even the rendering envisions more people using the crosswalk than the big fancy bridge.

The bridge over Oak Lawn is totally unnecessary. I understand the idea of using the Hi Line median as a bikeway as it's safer to give high speed bikes some separation from pedestrians walking through here, but where it intersects with Oak Lawn should be a place where the trail interacts with the community as opposed to skipping over it and creating barriers required for bridge ramps. The interaction with VP is non-nonsensical, and while much of what I said above is workable, I don't see any of this being part of 'the loop'...

It is far more effective to extend the current terminus of The Strand to Riverchon Park by staying one grade below the streets along the existing creek. One of the creek tunnels leading into Riverchon has the dimensions to support a bike path with minimal work (mainly lights and paving the bottom. At that point, an easy link to the existing Katy Trail ramp within Riverchon is within a stones throw.

I realize this small tunnel portion under the DNT won't be the most attractive, but cities and small towns everywhere have re-purposed tunnels for this exact use. It is so strange how leaders here continue to try and overbuild everything.

muncien wrote:It is far more effective to extend the current terminus of The Strand to Riverchon Park by staying one grade below the streets along the existing creek. One of the creek tunnels leading into Riverchon has the dimensions to support a bike path with minimal work (mainly lights and paving the bottom. At that point, an easy link to the existing Katy Trail ramp within Riverchon is within a stones throw.

Yeah, I would much rather see this as well. It would also connect to the (underutilized) Turtle Creek trail as well, which would be another win.

One point missing here is that The Loop is completely driven by developers and their need to connect crummy Class D warehouse space real estate to ultra expensive Katy Trail properties. That's the rub here. The developers on the west side of I-35 are wagging the tail for this dog. What makes no real sense for you as a trail user makes perfect sense to a developer who has the ear of this organization. So...crummy as it sounds the weird bridge over Oak Lawn is in and everything else is out. Because the developer sitting on crummy property further west said so.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B1pKbJkjZHP ... 80a4gn3sv1

Apparently the Harwood trailhead is now open, although I haven't seen it in person yet.

I used it last weekend. It puts you straight into Harwood district and provides a fairly nice walk to KWP and downtown. A great and needed access to that part of the city from the trail.

Didn't know where to put this so I put it everywhere
A complicated plan to connect Dallas’ Katy Trail to the Trinity River just got a big win

A complicated, one-mile connection extending downtown Dallas’ popular Katy Trail from east of Interstate 35E to the Trinity River side on the west is getting a big green light. The $22.2 million project, known as the Hi Line Connector, would link Victory Park to the Design District and Trinity River, potentially opening property west of the major highway to new development. A city of Dallas board in charge of providing enhanced public improvements this week recommended spending $11.6 million in tax increment financing to go along with more than $10 million in state and city funds and private donations to get the project moving. It now goes before Dallas City Council’s economic development committee and full council for approvals. That’s expected to occur in the next 30 days.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... a-big-win/

quixomniac wrote:Didn't know where to put this so I put it everywhere
A complicated plan to connect Dallas’ Katy Trail to the Trinity River just got a big win

A complicated, one-mile connection extending downtown Dallas’ popular Katy Trail from east of Interstate 35E to the Trinity River side on the west is getting a big green light. The $22.2 million project, known as the Hi Line Connector, would link Victory Park to the Design District and Trinity River, potentially opening property west of the major highway to new development. A city of Dallas board in charge of providing enhanced public improvements this week recommended spending $11.6 million in tax increment financing to go along with more than $10 million in state and city funds and private donations to get the project moving. It now goes before Dallas City Council’s economic development committee and full council for approvals. That’s expected to occur in the next 30 days.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... a-big-win/
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Wonder how much this'll be utilized if/when it's a reality...
Well, since the Design District's residential population will grow, at least the residents will have an easy connection to the Katy Trail.

It'll be the busiest part of the trail.

So where are the buffered bike lanes? I hope dallas doesn't half ass this and actually makes a concerted effort to connect Katy trail on hi-line drive with actual cycling infrastructure. Pedestrian walkways should be for walking.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:So where are the buffered bike lanes? I hope dallas doesn't half ass this and actually makes a concerted effort to connect Katy trail on hi-line drive with actual cycling infrastructure. Pedestrian walkways should be for walking.

Yep, I second this.

Well all you have to look at is the Trinity Strand Trail they built it and its kinda just there not growing not covered in rows of glorious landscaping like the vison showed back when it started. It's just a halfway decent trail in some underutilized land. A lot of good effort went into the Trinity Strand but its not matured yet as a destination trail. This is def the developers trying to inject the Katy Trail magic.

I mean I have to give it to them the Design District has been slow compared to a lot of other areas. I'm glad we have a Virgin Hotel and the UTBY towers are coming but until the number of rooftops gets to a inflection point I think it will continue to be a slow redeveloping area. Deep Ellum died again and came back to life in the time the Design District has been promoted as the next it district for Dallas. Keep in mind some of these owners were expecting the Trinity Rover Project to inject some value in their land as well.

While I definitely prefer this version over the ridiculous looking (and expensive) pedestrian bridge connector, I'm just not sure it is really important to connect these two trails at this point in time.

I don't see enough people using this connector to really justify it, and I actually think the Trinity Strand Trail is pretty great at the moment (minus the fact that it floods a lot). I'd certainly like to see more people utilize it and for improvements to be made to the creek, but I think that will naturally come overtime as more residential is built in the area.

I think all of the "connective ideas" have merit, and all of them should be pursued. They are inevitable if the vision being expressed is actually to happen. As many have posited through the years, it's not "one" of anything, be it parks, stores, residential buildings, that will make innermost-Dallas "work as a city". It will be lots of "all of the above", and the sooner the better. I suppose it's typical for the first "right of way" to the river to be a cobbled together "piecemeal patchwork", pleasant for diehard bikers and adventurous walkers only (and with little investment). Fatalities and injuries will be duly noted. Eventually, after it's public popularity can be gauged, Dallas can hire a starchitect to rethink the connections for people instead of cars. But counting "texas time" for all the arguing... Oops, I'm dead.

potatocoins wrote:While I definitely prefer this version over the ridiculous looking (and expensive) pedestrian bridge connector, I'm just not sure it is really important to connect these two trails at this point in time.

I don't see enough people using this connector to really justify it, and I actually think the Trinity Strand Trail is pretty great at the moment (minus the fact that it floods a lot). I'd certainly like to see more people utilize it and for improvements to be made to the creek, but I think that will naturally come overtime as more residential is built in the area.

I thought interconnecting every trail into one gigantic network was on everyone's list of must do's!
Trails in flood zones along creeks are going to flood every now and then. What else do you expect to happen in a flood zone?
What specific improvements to the creek do you want? It is hard for anyone to please everyone with unstated wants.

I would love a giant interconnected trail. However, the two options presented to connect these two trails just seem a bit silly, IMO. The bridge would be the best experience for pedestrians/cyclists, but it seems expensive and ugly. If we're going to build a bridge, I'd much rather build one on the north side over 75.

I do like the non-bridge proposal, I'm just not sure it'll be that widely used. I've used it a handful of times, and it seems like I see it being used by people who live in the Design District who want to use the Katy Trail. I guess I'd prefer to see more effort being made into bettering the Trinity Strand Trail so people might be more inclined to use it instead. As far as specific improvements, I suppose just cleaning up the creek, I suppose. It would be nice to see more development directly along the creek too, which would make for better entrances/exits to the trail. I had not really thought through what specific changes I would want to see though.

potatocoins wrote:I would love a giant interconnected trail. However, the two options presented to connect these two trails just seem a bit silly, IMO.
As far as specific improvements, I suppose just cleaning up the creek, I suppose. It would be nice to see more development directly along the creek too, which would make for better entrances/exits to the trail. I had not really thought through what specific changes I would want to see though.

If you think the two proposals seem a bit silly, what would you do?
As for cleaning up the creek, try finding some volunteers to do it. Are there any neighborhood grass roots organizations nearby? Why must everything be done by governments?

Stop sitting on the sidelines expecting others to do the dirty work, organize your neighbors and get it done.

electricron wrote:

potatocoins wrote:I would love a giant interconnected trail. However, the two options presented to connect these two trails just seem a bit silly, IMO.
As far as specific improvements, I suppose just cleaning up the creek, I suppose. It would be nice to see more development directly along the creek too, which would make for better entrances/exits to the trail. I had not really thought through what specific changes I would want to see though.

If you think the two proposals seem a bit silly, what would you do?
As for cleaning up the creek, try finding some volunteers to do it. Are there any neighborhood grass roots organizations nearby? Why must everything be done by governments?

Stop sitting on the sidelines expecting others to do the dirty work, organize your neighbors and get it done.

You do know how the Katy Trail grew over time right? That it was just like this trail a boring piece of concrete along underutilized parcels in Uptown. As developers so value connecting to the trail donations were made for bigger improvements like asphalt running trail, landscaping, viewing areas, water fountains, benches, staircases etc. Now the Friends of Katy Trails org does a decent job of securing donations as they have a large number of people to request money from who love to put their name on it.

I think you wanting things that will come over time from developers and the org currently charged with improving the Trinity Strand Trail. Developers want to see the Trinity Strand Trail expand in features and access as well but they know how this works. Ultimately what's needed is good leadership in the non-profit that will inspire more donations from all sides. I am sure developers want to claim connection to the Katy Trail and a solid connection what ever that looks like will boost the traffic and popularity of Trinity Strand Trail and ultimately funding for improvements attracting more developers.

electricron wrote:If you think the two proposals seem a bit silly, what would you do?
As for cleaning up the creek, try finding some volunteers to do it. Are there any neighborhood grass roots organizations nearby? Why must everything be done by governments?

Stop sitting on the sidelines expecting others to do the dirty work, organize your neighbors and get it done.

I would just leave the connection as is for the time being. I also don't care enough to actually organize or go clean up the creek myself..lol. Would rather just see more development occur in the area and let the developers have a vested interest in upkeeping the trail. What I want out of this trail will naturally occur overtime with more development in this area, so I'd rather just wait for that time happen. This is valuable real estate and people know it, so increased demand in this area will eventually result in a nicer looking and more widely used trail.

New Entrance and Plaza Coming to Harvard Avenue Crossing on the Katy Trail

https://www.peoplenewspapers.com/2022/10/05/new-entrance-and-plaza-coming-to-harvard-avenue-crossing-on-the-katy-trail/

“The new plaza will echo the design of David’s Way, the entry plaza at Knox Street, the trail’s other street-level crossing.”

“ The project will be built in two phases to accommodate the planned city of Dallas conversion of nearby McKinney and Cole avenues into two-way streets. The first phase, with construction beginning in early 2023, will focus on the two plazas, new signage, and landscaping. The second phase will add additional safety enhancements on Harvard and will be completed after the city finishes the street conversion project.”

Are those Minecraft trees? : )

I know, right. This was in the story: “surrounded by large trees that will be pollarded, a pruning method that removes the upper branches.”

I have know idea how (or WHY) that would be done! Why not just plant shrubs and trim off the lower limbs?

What's Minecraft?

This was in the story: “surrounded by large trees that will be pollarded, a pruning method that removes the upper branches.”

Pollarding is an old-timey technique for getting sustianable firewood and cordage branches from trees - the top branches are cut and the trunk quickly re-grows spindly branches. The closest we have in DFW in modern times is 'crepe murder', where people cut the tops off of crepe myrtle trees.

Pollarding honestly doesn't create a very attractive tree and we don't need the firewood, so I don't get the reason for this either.