Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Posted: **19 May 2017 11:37**

Glossy lauding prep piece for the 2018 AT&T Byron Nelson Championship Tournament. Overlooking all the flagrant missteps along the way to building the link course, this article focuses on the the potential to put Dallas back in the major leagues of PGA golf.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... ot-in.html

Golf's next big championship course taking root in South Dallas
May 19, 2017
Candace Carlisle

"The last major championship game in Dallas was played in 1952 and the last major championship game in Texas was played in 1969," Spears said. "If we can attract a major championship game and host the Byron Nelson, we will put Dallas in good golfing stead."

"We talked to all the governing bodies that manage the major championships and we really did want the golf course built to accommodate championships, whether it's a normal PGA Tour event like the Byron Nelson or whether it's a U.S. Open or PGA Championship — that's the real reason it was built," he added. "You'd probably do it differently if it was just going to be a purely private golf club."

We'll have to see some serious golf-park facility construction before this course elevates it's game.

Posted: **20 May 2017 02:05**

what kind of facilities have they build around the course?

Posted: **20 May 2017 11:21**

^As far as I'm aware, one clubhouse is the only permanent building accommodating players and guests...

http://myavidgolfer.com/features/update-trinity-forest/

Thoughts on Trinity Forest…
Travis Measley / Apr. 1st, 2016

...Construction on the 25,000-square-foot clubhouse is scheduled to begin shortly, with an expected completion date of fall 2017. The clubhouse will overlook the 9th and 18th green, and will be on the south side of Great Trinity Forest Way, the main road that dissects the property.

Great Trinity Forest Way a.k.a. Loop 12 haha

oh, this is timely:
https://sportsday.dallasnews.com/other- ... uture-home

By Brad Townsend
...
"I think it will be a welcome break between what some would call the monotony of PGA Tour golf courses."
On Tuesday, Dallas' Jordan Spieth, a Trinity Forest member, told us that he has shot 7-under here, but also 7-over.
...
With no trees, obviously there is no natural shade. Salesmanship Club and Trinity Forest officials say much of the sun exposure will be alleviated by tournament-specific structures and hospitality areas throughout the course.

...
What about parking?
...
"Right now we have 7,000 parking spaces [for Trinity Forest] that are a shorter bus ride, by time, than the ride from the old Texas Stadium," said Moore, alluding to the Nelson's current primary parking area. "There's three different ways to get to the course. On the clock it's faster than getting to the front door of the Four Seasons."
Declining to be more specific, Moore told Chip Shots that negotiations are underway to secure land that would provide closer-in parking for players and sponsors.

Sure, the course will need more on site parking over time, but absolutely no forest cutting for parking lots just for special event activities. The booster club talks a good game about how this golf course will add to downtown activities, and it certainly will during big important tournaments.

Build a world class round-about for buses and shuttles carrying all the special event crowds from downtown.

Posted: **20 May 2017 19:45**

I remember when this Private Golf course was announced. The mayor touted it would be great for South Dallas.

Prediction...This tournament will do nothing for South Dallas!

Posted: **21 May 2017 06:44**

depends on what you mean by "for South Dallas". Certainly will do nothing for South Dallas as we know it.

Posted: **21 May 2017 15:34**

What is the luxury hotel line that has announced they will be building a fantastic four star hotel and resort near this place?

Posted: **23 May 2017 01:27**

My sarcasm meter is malfunctioning. Is that serious or a joke?

Posted: **23 May 2017 08:41**

I'm sure they will just helicopter guests to the Downtown Omni...

Posted: **23 May 2017 20:52**

rantanamo wrote:My sarcasm meter is malfunctioning. Is that serious or a joke?

Its serious sarcasm

Posted: **23 May 2017 22:24**

That was a fleeting mention, and I don't remember at all the brand or if a general location had been mentioned, but I do remember it. Also remember wondering if this hotel would have been anywhere near Wonderview (haha Mark Cuban 2010).... but I'm not feeling a hotel on the east side of the River, more like right across the street....

SMU Golf and perhaps other collegiate sport activity will need facilities, is horse riding (or associated?) a college sport? Polo? How about some Mustang Soccer?

If the PGA shows up big for this golf course, there's going to be some nice ballrooms, suites and rooftop drinking & dining. I've always figured Pemberton Hill would succumb.

Posted: **16 Aug 2017 08:29**

The Trinity Golf course was billed as a private Golf Course like the Dallas Country Club its rare for a private club like that to have a resort attached... unless it is actually simi-private meaning you can be a member to play or you can pay a green fee and stay at the attached hotel and play. The current course is Public -- i can play the course without either staying at the hotel or being a member just pay a green fee.

Posted: **28 Sep 2017 09:12**

One must be a member of Trinity Forest CC or an invited guest of member to play there. It is a private club. This is the way it was always intended. It is not a public course. The only "public" part of it is the enormous sum of money Dallas citizens paid to build it.

Posted: **28 Sep 2017 09:15**

casperitl wrote:One must be a member of Trinity Forest CC or an invited guest of member to play there. It is a private club. This is the way it was always intended. It is not a public course. The only "public" part of it is the enormous sum of money Dallas citizens paid to build it.

Yep.

Posted: **28 Sep 2017 10:33**

casperitl wrote:One must be a member of Trinity Forest CC or an invited guest of member to play there. It is a private club. This is the way it was always intended. It is not a public course. The only "public" part of it is the enormous sum of money Dallas citizens paid to build it.

If it's going to become a PGA mainstay with prime time TV timeslots and popular destination for North American golf fanatics, it probably needs to remain members only. Citizens get paid back only if out-of-towners pay good money to use the course.

It's up to good the folks in Dallas -- like casperitl -- to get the management straightened out. The destruction of habitat caused so far by that golf course must be the ironic beginning of an entity broadly protecting and developing a near wilderness along the river.

Posted: **28 Sep 2017 16:25**

casperitl wrote:One must be a member of Trinity Forest CC or an invited guest of member to play there. It is a private club. This is the way it was always intended. It is not a public course. The only "public" part of it is the enormous sum of money Dallas citizens paid to build it.

Actually there is a bit more to the public part than that. As part of the deal with the city several charity golf events will be held there each year. And all things considered it did not cost us all that much money and if it goes belly up then it just reverts back to the city.

From a business point of view having Dallas actually host a major event like that will have some benefits... I also think that particular view of Dallas will have some benefit... i was talking to someone not long ago that thought dallas was a desert

Posted: **03 May 2018 13:33**

Slideshow of various facilities around the course. Some are only temporary for use during this year's Byron Nelson.

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... elson.html

A related article, but it's paywalled:

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... -club.html

Posted: **11 May 2018 12:57**

Still not seeing any signs of economic life surrounding this project. Are those cheerleading this venue pointing towards an increase in Omni Hotel bookings as their win?

I don't see a quality of life change for the better yet for residents in the zip code surrounding the golf course.

It has been a doubled down fight just to keep public trails and park areas open to the public that are in the vicinity of the Byron Nelson tournament.

Posted: **12 May 2018 14:28**

Maybe they can tear down some more of the forest to build a fancy hotel. I'm surprised they haven't talked about it.

Posted: **12 May 2018 20:25**

Tnexster wrote:Maybe they can tear down some more of the forest to build a fancy hotel. I'm surprised they haven't talked about it.

Probably waiting to see whether or not the Byron Nelson elevates in stature on the link course. If the tournament gains popularity that draws during the rest of the year, we'll likely see permanent structures for players and audiences, including a super-star resort somewhere nearby. Maybe they fill the gaping hole in the forest just off Elam with a parking garage, the view of downtown from that vantage point would be spectacular. The horse park would like it, maybe get those polo fields out of the deal.

Posted: **14 May 2018 08:42**

The DMN gets Corby Davidson (afternoon co-host from KTCK The Ticket)'s opinion of Trinity Forest:

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ern-dallas

Also, these angles from the Editorial section....

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... ern-dallas
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... ins-dallas

Posted: **15 May 2018 07:27**

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/editorials/2018/05/14/naysayers-said-att-byron-nelson-couldnt-happen-now-tee-time-southern-dallas

Here's some helpful perspective as hundreds of thousands of fans travel deep into southern Dallas this week for the AT&T Byron Nelson at its new home at the Trinity Forest Golf Club

I started to read this editorial, but had to pause after the first sentence: hundreds of thousands of fans? Is that right, hundreds of thousands?

Posted: **15 May 2018 08:15**

tamtagon wrote:
I started to read this editorial, but had to pause after the first sentence: hundreds of thousands of fans? Is that right, hundreds of thousands?

http://www.star-telegram.com/entertainm ... 86887.html

2017 Byron Nelson attendance

Official attendance for the week of the 35th and final Nelson at the Four Seasons was 280,000 people.

In spite of the final round's rain delay, the highest attended day was Sunday's 79,500, followed by 78,000 on Saturday and 41,000 on Friday.

Posted: **15 May 2018 08:54**

Remarkable! I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

Years ago we had tickets to this tournament, so we headed out to the golf course for bloody mary's and people watching, golf what? I kinda remember the package was Dallas Double D-luxe (one of our gang had the gold plated hook up) but the parking pass turned out to be useless, so we headed to the fancy hotel on the Lake Caroline for refreshment and a shuttle ride --- no parking there either. No way.

We headed back to Dallas and got to Brownies (RIP) just in time.

Posted: **15 May 2018 11:43**

dukemeredith wrote:
tamtagon wrote:
I started to read this editorial, but had to pause after the first sentence: hundreds of thousands of fans? Is that right, hundreds of thousands?

http://www.star-telegram.com/entertainm ... 86887.html

2017 Byron Nelson attendance

Official attendance for the week of the 35th and final Nelson at the Four Seasons was 280,000 people.

In spite of the final round's rain delay, the highest attended day was Sunday's 79,500, followed by 78,000 on Saturday and 41,000 on Friday.

I'm trying to follow their math. They say they had total attendance of 280,000 people for the four day tournament, then recite the attendance for three of the four days. 79,500 plus 78,000 plus 41,000 adds up to 198,500. According to their report, Thursday's attendance was less than 41,000. Even if it matched Friday's 41,000, we only get to 239,500. How did they come up with 280,000?

Posted: **15 May 2018 12:21**

Isn't there some kind of pro-am or preview thing on Wednesday every year? If they still do that, it would attract a few folks.

Since AT&T is a new sponsor this year, maybe some people in the gallery will be company vendors or friends-of-the-company.

Posted: **15 May 2018 18:19**

Robert Wilonsky looks at the surrounding neighborhood angle, with some residents actually thinking positive about the effects of the golf course and tournament.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ern-dallas

Posted: **15 May 2018 18:47**

The Dallas CVB has posted a list of things going on at Trinity Forest during the tournament besides golf.

https://www.visitdallas.com/things-to-d ... elson.html?

Posted: **21 May 2018 07:30**

Apparently a mixed reaction to this year's Byron Nelson and the course, with the writer of this article in the Star-Telegram, well, just not feeling it...

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt ... 47054.html

Posted: **21 May 2018 08:38**

jrd1964 wrote:Apparently a mixed reaction to this year's Byron Nelson and the course, with the writer of this article in the Star-Telegram, well, just not feeling it...

http://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt ... 47054.html

Ouch... I knew it was bad, but that was harsh.

Posted: **21 May 2018 08:56**

I would consider the source.

Posted: **21 May 2018 09:06**

I'm more into the discussion that Frisco will likely be getting the PGA HQ, mentioned in that article, which will draw the event away from the Trinity Forest. The question is will Rawlings and AT&T be able to find a developer to at least make the neighborhood look like it has a future centered around the golf course when the game could move in two years? Keeping in mind the game cannot be the sole revenue source for new development. The article didn't complain about there not being a hotel for example but I have to imagine they need to have a vision for a resort hotel of some sort along with some changes to the course to accommodate players distaste for it so far.

Posted: **01 Jun 2018 15:46**

Looks like a certain amount of play at Trinity Forest must be on a public basis--but just how apparently is a question.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... ic-rounds/

Posted: **15 Jun 2018 07:51**

Now that the dust has settled from the Byron Nelson it is clear that this event and venue was far less than advertised. A great disappointment all the way around. What a damn shame for Southern Dallas and the Great Trinity Forest as a whole. That event really tarnished the image of that whole area to a national audience.

Real damn shame.

Posted: **16 Jun 2018 04:21**

casperitl wrote:Now that the dust has settled from the Byron Nelson it is clear that this event and venue was far less than advertised. A great disappointment all the way around. What a damn shame for Southern Dallas and the Great Trinity Forest as a whole. That event really tarnished the image of that whole area to a national audience.

Real damn shame.

really?

Posted: **18 Jun 2018 11:20**

Time will tell. I am not a big fan of this golf course either but I think the city and AT&T both have time to try to salvage what issues it has. If they do then great we didn't waste tax money as much as if it totally fails. I still would love to ask the mayor how a elitest private golf course was supposed to save South Dallas and make the city of Dallas look good.

This is the moment Mayor Rawlings when its time to sprinkle your powerful backer's fairy dust and actually fix the problem you created. South Dallas wasn't your fault but a golf course that wasn't a hit with the groups of people it was designed for is your fault. AT&T time to build a job training center down by the golf course and be a part of raising the bar in those neighborhoods. Developers we need a luxury resort hotel to take on the job of building a destination hotel that will attract golfers, trailblazers and the like that works despite not being located in the flashiest part of town and hire South Dallas people.

Posted: **18 Jun 2018 22:44**

A luxury hotel can't be built near Trinity Forest GC. There is no room for one. They want to build small bungalows in the woods that back up to Loop 12. Imagine the noise.

Unknown is the millions of dollars in HUD money spent on this project that should have gone to the community. Instead it went to a very rich small group.

Posted: **19 Jun 2018 08:35**

Land could easily be brought down there for one on the more developed side. In the cities case, they would probably try to take it instead for the "benefit of the community".

Posted: **19 Jun 2018 09:48**

The old landfill is surrounded by floodplain. It would take an act of god for the Corps of Engineers or State of Texas to approve filling in the floodplain to that degree. Other than a few acres held by churches on the north side of Loop 12, nothing is large enough to support a hotel. Besides, the membership at that club is small and is designed to be small. This was built with taxpayer funds for a handful of private citizens.

Posted: **19 Jun 2018 11:57**

The floodplain from the West Fork to Cedar Creek be turned into permanent rotating wetlands, dry prairie 'island campgrounds,' deep river channels, shallow river channels, forest glens, and swampy palmetto growths... the whole shebang managed into a wilderness hosting all regional flora and fauna so people can get down there and enjoy the natural beauty where the Eastern Forest turns into the Great Plains.

The incredibly influential and very wealthy citizen groups can have all the outside levee edges containing the managed wilderness preserve to turn into boardwalk, amusement park, gathering place whatever. The star of the show must be the earth and sky, it's the obvious novelty yet to be exploited and propped up for people to visit.

I keep wondering if SMU will move the equestrian stuff to the forest.

Posted: **02 Jul 2018 13:12**

I went to the BN this year and felt like they did a great job. no doubt it was a different vibe from the one in Irving but they did a great job of creating shaded spaces around the course to watch from. The course itself was very cool-- i was disappointed it did not play and tough as I expected but otherwise very cool course.

Unlike the course in Irving your not going to see a 4 star hotel on this course because it is a private golf course. It was never built to have a hotel on it like many if not most other tournament courses.

The temporary facilities that were constructed for the tournament were very impressive I thought.

Posted: **02 Jul 2018 20:12**

If the BN sticks, we'll see plenty of permanent stuff make its way in.

Posted: **24 Jul 2018 08:37**

tamtagon wrote:If the BN sticks, we'll see plenty of permanent stuff make its way in.

Only way to do that is to kick a lot of homeowners out.

The newness of that place is starting to fade. Saw some guys with an AK47(Romanian AK) down at First Tee last week shooting into a gravel pit. They were drinking beer, smoking weed and having a great time. Gave me the warm fuzzies.

Usually that it is an instant 911 call that brings half the substation out. I just let that go.......

Posted: **24 Jul 2018 10:42**

casperitl wrote:
tamtagon wrote:If the BN sticks, we'll see plenty of permanent stuff make its way in.

Only way to do that is to kick a lot of homeowners out.

The newness of that place is starting to fade. Saw some guys with an AK47(Romanian AK) down at First Tee last week shooting into a gravel pit. They were drinking beer, smoking weed and having a great time. Gave me the warm fuzzies.

Usually that it is an instant 911 call that brings half the substation out. I just let that go.......

Presume a 10 year process. It's up to SMU, the city, "watchdogs" and concerned citizens to make sure these homeowners profit through a buy out. The price of each parcel should aim for the median of today's value and the up & running value whatever permanent golf course related construction. The Methodists may end up the gatekeepers of a fair deal.

Posted: **24 Jul 2018 10:56**

tamtagon wrote:
casperitl wrote:
tamtagon wrote:If the BN sticks, we'll see plenty of permanent stuff make its way in.

Only way to do that is to kick a lot of homeowners out.

The newness of that place is starting to fade. Saw some guys with an AK47(Romanian AK) down at First Tee last week shooting into a gravel pit. They were drinking beer, smoking weed and having a great time. Gave me the warm fuzzies.

Usually that it is an instant 911 call that brings half the substation out. I just let that go.......

Presume a 10 year process. It's up to SMU, the city, "watchdogs" and concerned citizens to make sure these homeowners profit through a buy out. The price of each parcel should aim for the median of today's value and the up & running value whatever permanent golf course related construction. The Methodists may end up the gatekeepers of a fair deal.

No one is moving.

Posted: **02 Dec 2018 12:17**

New PGA development at Panther Creek in Frisco spells the beginning of the end of Trinity Forest as a tour venue. Stick. A. Fork. In. It.

Posted: **03 Dec 2018 21:48**

casperitl wrote:New PGA development at Panther Creek in Frisco spells the beginning of the end of Trinity Forest as a tour venue. Stick. A. Fork. In. It.

So nice that so much money was spent on this and they did so much damage to the forest in the process.

Posted: **06 Dec 2018 07:37**

casperitl wrote:New PGA development at Panther Creek in Frisco spells the beginning of the end of Trinity Forest as a tour venue. Stick. A. Fork. In. It.

I suppose that could happen with the Byron Nelson moving to Frisco, but I doubt it. The PGA offices moving to Frisco more likely spells the beginning of the end of The Colonial in Fort Worth as part of the Texas Swing. The deficiency of fancy golf resort stuff near the Trinity Forest Course is minimized by the skill-testing novelty of golf being played there, links, and the proximity to a rejuvenated downtown with a concentration and variety of hotels (nice to fanciest of all) finishes the four day tour bundle into a magnetic draw.

With the move to Frisco, the Texas PGA Swing will return to the forefront. ATT is not likely to abandon the Trinity Forest.

Posted: **06 Dec 2018 10:15**

There is no challenge of skill when it comes to Trinity Forest. High School kids, NCAA teams and veterans groups destroy that course under par. The pros kill it as evidenced by the low Byron Nelson scores. It has not lived up to the hype.

One average flood during the Byron Nelson will make the venue unworkable.

As corporate sponsorships eye a bigger and better venue, Frisco instantly looks like the new home of the Byron Nelson.

Posted: **06 Dec 2018 10:52**

^Oh, totally, I have no doubt the Byron Nelson could move to Frisco. I also have no doubt the kinks of a Byron Nelson 'soft opening' at Trinity Forest will be worked out making the course a challenge the pros eagerly anticipate.

Posted: **06 Dec 2018 11:03**

The Byron Nelson should be moved to Frisco. Hotel, infrastructure and amenities await.

The promise of economic development in South Dallas from the Trinity Forest Golf Course will no longer happen. The idea of a hotel for instance, is now very much dead. Frisco has the hotel now.

I attended the Byron Nelson this year and it was a logistical mess. It will never improve even in the best case scenarios.

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