Southern Gateway Public Green

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Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby tamtagon » 05 May 2017 09:31

http://oakcliff.advocatemag.com/2017/04 ... y-expense/

April 26, 2017
Oak Cliff deck park: Social and economic breakthrough or unnecessary expense?
Written By Rachel Stone

People on both sides of Interstate 35 in Oak Cliff want a deck park. And there are people on both sides who think it wouldn’t be the best use of tax dollars.

The Texas Department of Transportation held a public hearing in our neighborhood Tuesday where residents could see plans for the proposed park and give their feedback on it.

The highway department will rebuild 35, in a project known as “the southern gateway.” Once that’s completed, a 5.5-acre deck park could sit above the interstate, in the style of Klyde Warren Park, between Marsalis and Ewing.

The park would cost about $135 million. The Regional Transportation Council would pitch in $45 million, leaving the city’s portion at about $90 million. Dallas currently is staring down possible bankruptcy if it doesn’t solve the police and fire pension fund crisis. So there currently is no public money available for this kind of amenity, although it’s possible that at least some of the funding could come from private donors.

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 08 May 2017 09:19

I love it when the pull out the private donor's thing. Let's see if South Dallas is really really lucky someone will write a check for 10 million. More likely the most they will get is under 5 million.
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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby tamtagon » 08 May 2017 10:23

A better use of the $50 million gift to Dallas Parks & Recreation from the Sammons Foundation goes to this project rather than the a condition of the Trinity Tollroad through the Trinity River Park...

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby tamtagon » 30 Jun 2017 09:05

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/oak-cli ... ty-council

Oak Cliff deck park gets unanimous OK from Dallas City Council
Julie Fancher, Staff Writer

The Dallas City Council unanimously authorized funding for a new deck park over Interstate 35E ... The proposed deck park, which would eventually be a 5.5 acre park, would stretch from Marsalis Avenue to Ewing Avenue ... the Texas Department of Transportation's CityMAP report last year ... estimated the changes could spur more than $166 million in development for one of the poorest parts of Dallas


The potential for the part of town is off the charts! After years of dubious success, The Dallas Zoo has become an respected institution, Bishop Arts is the "new" Lower Greenville, Downtown Oak Cliff is getting a 'better block' update (is Jason Roberts involved in any of the changes here?!?!), the streetcar extension is underway, and there's vacant and derelict real estate in an overabundance.

So much potential....
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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby gshelton91 » 28 Jul 2017 10:26

I don't really feel like this deck park is a good use of money. If we took this same money and put it into Lake Cliff Park then at the end of the day we would have a much better outcome. Woodall Rodgers Deck park made economic sense because the price of land and the location. The price of land in Oak Cliff just doesn't justify a deck park -- at least in my opinion.

Just think about the possibilities for Lake Cliff park and/or Kid Springs and/or Keist Park if this 20+ Million dollars were put to those parks.

Kind of off topic but I think the next good investment for the zoo would be a "Great Wolf Lodge" style hotel connected to the Zoo with proximity to downtown and other dallas attractions like North Park and Uptown I think a lot of people would choose to be down here rather up in grapevine

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby tamtagon » 28 Jul 2017 11:33

^No doubt Lake Cliff and Kid Spring and Keist Park could each use a double dose of park investment, I have no doubt these three and most other Southern city parks have decades of deferred maintenance and upkeep. Dedicated bike/pedways should already connect Lake Cliff and Kid Springs....

But I'm totally in favor of this expensive deck park. Essentially, this will function a welcome mat for the Zoo until East Jefferson begins the inevitable conversion from street through an 'abandoned' bad part of town to the a mixed use, commercial, office, retail and tourist boulevard anchoring the destination of Historic Oak Cliff Downtown, The Zoo and Downtown Dallas. It's entirely possible the next decade's version of Gaylord-Great Wolf-Motor Court Revival Hospitality accommodation will land at the foot step of the deck.

Downtown Oak Cliff will take on the same sort of destination attitude as Ashville NC, or a cool area of Austin before getting overrun, Pismo Beach....

New Oak Cliff Tourist District.jpg


This deck park is a critical first step to a complete upgrade, new millennial, mixed use tourist and commercial destination that's free of the stereo-typical North Dallas sterility.
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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby electricron » 28 Jul 2017 17:06

I am more concerned with maintaining the deck park after it's built. An advisory committee or board of some sort should be established, along with a steady source of funds, just like the deck park over Woodall Rogers.
Without such an organization, the grass, flowers, and trees will turn into weeds soon enough, because the first thing the city cuts in bad times is parks.

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 01 Aug 2017 10:44

I noticed that the Tricolor car dealership closed down and moved. Could've been that way for months, but it's most likely due to the massive land grab that took place there last year by SD5 Investors (whatever that is).

This is surprising because I assumed the new owners would continue to collect rent and keep that business there until the park made those parcels more valuable, but maybe we'll see a lot of these structures demolished and ready for assemblage of tracts sooner than later.

Screen Shot 2017-08-01 at 10.40.45 AM.png
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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 24 Jan 2018 09:37

Per City Manager T.C. Broadnax, groundbreaking for the Southern Gateway Project will take place on Wednesday, February 28. I believe the first phase of the project is the one closest to downtown which includes the structural support for the deck park.

On a related note, it was revealed during the Amazon HQ2 frenzy that it's Cienda Partners who has been purchasing land around the future deck park. They offered Amazon these parcels as an extension of what they already own at the former Oak Farms Dairy site. Cienda paid for initial renderings/models so it makes sense that they're betting on the real estate here to skyrocket.

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby exelone31 » 24 Jan 2018 12:11

lakewoodhobo wrote:Per City Manager T.C. Broadnax, groundbreaking for the Southern Gateway Project will take place on Wednesday, February 28. I believe the first phase of the project is the one closest to downtown which includes the structural support for the deck park.

On a related note, it was revealed during the Amazon HQ2 frenzy that it's Cienda Partners who has been purchasing land around the future deck park. They offered Amazon these parcels as an extension of what they already own at the former Oak Farms Dairy site. Cienda paid for initial renderings/models so it makes sense that they're betting on the real estate here to skyrocket.


That's awesome to hear on all fronts! It's sounds like this one will really come to fruition. I'm really curious to see if this park has a similar ancillary impact as Klyde Warren has. I wouldn't expect it to lead to the same type of surrounding developments, but definitely some interesting potential to connect Bishop Arts/Jefferson to the zoo.

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby DPatel304 » 24 Jan 2018 12:35

I've been eyeing real estate in this area, and it seems pretty under-valued considering the location. I'm referring to the area wedged between Zang Blvd. and I-35. The area still looks run-down, but you're within walking distance to Bishop Arts, Lake Cliff Park, and the Streetcar, and now you'll have this deck park which will help connect the area to the Zoo at the DART station there.

I agree that we won't see the same type of change that we saw with KWP, but this might help bring some of the development around Bishop Arts to this side of Zang.

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby lakewoodhobo » 28 Feb 2018 16:47

Work begins on second Dallas deck park over I-35
http://www.fox4news.com/news/work-begin ... -over-i-35

Of course the headline is a bit misleading as we won't see any work on the deck park until the Southern Gateway project reaches S Ewing.

One thing I didn't realize from the renderings is that they're from the Office of James Burnett (which designed Klyde Warren Park). If you go to their website, you'll see a bunch of new detailed renderings there: https://www.ojb.com/project/southern-gateway-deck-park

Image
Image

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Re: Oak Cliff Deck Park

Postby Tnexster » 05 Jul 2018 22:08

How you can help build a deck park with the power to transform Oak Cliff

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/edit ... -oak-cliff

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 21 Aug 2019 17:21

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7xY-L ... sp=sharing

This was presented to our neighborhood association last night. Nothing really new but the updated renderings look nice. Great to know that the Zoo has been working to integrate the park into its property currently occupied by surface parking. Combined with the Ewing Ave reconstruction funded by the bond package, it'll completely transform the way people access the Zoo by DART.

The park is still scheduled to open in late 2022 or one year after TxDOT completes the support structure.

Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 5.12.14 PM.jpg
Screen Shot 2019-08-21 at 5.08.55 PM.jpg


The updated renderings make it look more compatible with the zoo and not just a KWP clone. One question that came up at the meeting was whether there would be a dog park, and the answer was “most likely not” as dogs are both a sign of gentrification and also a threat to people in neglected parts of southern Dallas, which has a loose dog problem.

Not sure I agree with that one but maybe they have a point.
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby muncien » 23 Aug 2019 08:57

One question that came up at the meeting was whether there would be a dog park, and the answer was “most likely not” as dogs are both a sign of gentrification and also a threat to people in neglected parts of southern Dallas, which has a loose dog problem.


Uh... what? That is the dumbest excuse. Integrating functional uses into a park (other than just trees and benches) is what makes them successful. A gated dog play area is a great use in a larger park footprint. This just doesn't make sense.
Also, acclimating people with pets and pets with people makes better relationships for both. Dog parks are part of the solution, not the problem... smh
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Matt777 » 23 Aug 2019 10:00

muncien wrote:
One question that came up at the meeting was whether there would be a dog park, and the answer was “most likely not” as dogs are both a sign of gentrification and also a threat to people in neglected parts of southern Dallas, which has a loose dog problem.


Uh... what? That is the dumbest excuse. Integrating functional uses into a park (other than just trees and benches) is what makes them successful. A gated dog play area is a great use in a larger park footprint. This just doesn't make sense.
Also, acclimating people with pets and pets with people makes better relationships for both. Dog parks are part of the solution, not the problem... smh


Agreed, their logic is ridiculous. I would have rather heard "we don't have the money for that" than this lame, illogical excuse.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby exelone31 » 23 Aug 2019 11:43

Wow, that is really really dumb and seems borderline racist(?)

Are they not going have benches because homeless people sleep on them?

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 23 Aug 2019 16:45

muncien wrote:Dog parks are part of the solution, not the problem... smh


That's what I've always said and it's part of the language we use when we raise money for our neighborhood dog park. Dog parks encourage responsible pet ownership, which is what we need in an area where people just keep dogs as a theft deterrent.

As for the deck park, yeah I wish they would just say they learned from KWP that they'd need a much bigger dog enclosure to make it functional and other uses like the children's playground turned out to be much more popular than anticipated and win out in the contest for square footage.

On the topic of gentrification, I hope they're making a distinction between the east and west sides of I35. The NW side of the park is in desperate need of redevelopment, and they can build a carbon copy of West Village there for all I care.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 01 Oct 2019 10:43

First $1 million raised to build deck park over Interstate 35 near Dallas zoo
https://www.fox4news.com/news/first-1-m ... dallas-zoo

Image


This image is interesting because it clearly shows the park not being at grade with surrounding property, which is not ideal. The surface parking lot and the access road are level and you'll need to go up a flight of stairs and use a crossing bridge to enter the park from Lancaster Ave (basically the center of the park).

I believe the zoo intends to eventually build a parking garage so that the current lot becomes an extension of the park; let's hope that still happens.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby exelone31 » 01 Oct 2019 11:18

Maybe it's just a weird angle, but it seems to me like the park is at grade and that the access road on the east side of 35 is dug out underneath the walkway.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 03 Oct 2019 12:29

It is a little bit of both...

https://www.ojb.com/project/southern-gateway-deck-park

ojb-southern-gateway-12_180724_110101.jpg
ojb-southern-gateway-phase-1-plan.jpg
ojb-southern-gateway-phase-2-plan.jpg

ojb-southern-gateway-11.jpg
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby exelone31 » 03 Oct 2019 13:03

Oh yeah, that is strange. Funny how in several of the renderings, they've hidden the stairwell behind a tree :) clever!

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby exelone31 » 18 May 2020 10:21

I haven't driven down here in quite some time, but does anyone know if construction is still happening here? I am not sure if there was a webcam similar to what they had with Klyde Warren.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 May 2020 17:38

exelone31 wrote:I haven't driven down here in quite some time, but does anyone know if construction is still happening here? I am not sure if there was a webcam similar to what they had with Klyde Warren.


Yes, there's constant construction on 35 .. The Ewing exit is blocked off and there's crews out of here working on the highway

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 27 May 2020 15:05

I wouldn't start looking for the park anytime soon. The highway project is the main focus of all construction here. The park would come later by a different contractor. The highway project is just building the support system into place so the park can be built once truly financed. This is not like Klyde Warren where the check has already been written for the park. TXDOT was basically pressured into building out the deck park infrastructure but the city will have to build the park. Kylde Warren had a lot of political money written into place before even a single shovel was rented for construction. Here they are still trying to fund the thing.
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 22 Jun 2021 12:28

I remember the first time I heard about the deck park over I-35 and thinking "not in my lifetime". Still a very long way to go, but this sure as hell makes it a lot more real.

Screen Shot 2021-06-22 at 12.23.28 PM.jpg


To my knowledge, the current plan is still Phase 1 (funded) Lancaster-Ewing plus the surface parking lot, which is perhaps a separate project by the Dallas Zoo but meant to look seamless.

SGP_greened+out+bkgd_shot+2_web.jpg


Phase 2 would be Lancaster-Marsalis which I believe is the section currently getting the shelf/support structure in the satellite image.

SGP_greened+out+bkgd_shot+1_web.jpg
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby potatocoins » 13 Jul 2021 19:04

Image
Construction of the actual park will begin in fall 2022 with the opening of Phase One in 2023. Phase Two’s timeline depends on first securing infrastructure funding.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... nal-model/

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 14 Jul 2021 07:41

potatocoins wrote:Image
Construction of the actual park will begin in fall 2022 with the opening of Phase One in 2023. Phase Two’s timeline depends on first securing infrastructure funding.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/comment ... nal-model/


I remember when KWP was being designed and the lengthy discussion on how important it was to make the park seamless and "at grade" with the surrounding streets. This design is more like Phase 2 of KWP had the pedestrian walkways to the Perot had been built, and I like how they've spun it to say it references the "cliff" in Oak Cliff – quite literally, since it looks like Phase 1 ends abruptly over I-35.

I'm here for all of it, but I just hope that the Zoo's section of the park (replacing the surface parking lot) is part of the first phase or follows it closely.

Also hoping the city is moving forward with the road diet on S Ewing with a wide sidewalk and bike lanes connecting the Dallas Zoo DART Station to the park.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby THRILLHO » 14 Jul 2021 14:02

It really looks phenomenal. It has a dynamic look that KWP doesn't.
That's not a knock against KWP, but I'm just saying this offers something different and I appreciate that. Can't wait to see it finished.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Jul 2021 16:17

I don't like the hilly design but what I am hoping for is that similarly like some of the unique parks coming out of places like NYC it will dazzle and delight so much so that not being level and connected as traditionally will overcome those factors. Lord knows we built below grade parks and public areas in the 70's/80's and some of those were a hit and miss.
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby vman » 15 Jul 2021 07:19

cowboyeagle05 wrote: Lord knows we built below grade parks and public areas in the 70's/80's and some of those were a hit and miss.

Ain't that the truth...Thanksgiving Square immediately comes to mind. But the worst around here has the be the Fort Worth Water Gardens. It's a park that is almost completely concrete and I've always found it horrific.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby tamtagon » 15 Jul 2021 13:36

I've had some fantastic trips at the water garden.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 24 Sep 2021 11:17

I like the hilly design, goes with the overall topography of south Dallas, not to mention the views up on top might be pretty good. Overlooking the Zoo and downtown, could be a real positive feature we just can't appreciate at the moment.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 28 Sep 2021 13:32

As long as homeless aren't sleeping under the covered areas we should be fine but Klyde Warren has private security what will this park have to keep it from being constantly misused?
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 04 Oct 2021 16:52

Probably not what KWP has, from what I hear from the contractor building the project the vandalism of equipment is off the charts and is an absolute constant. Not sure how you battle that later when the park opens up.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby exelone31 » 05 Oct 2021 15:51

Tnexster wrote:Probably not what KWP has, from what I hear from the contractor building the project the vandalism of equipment is off the charts and is an absolute constant. Not sure how you battle that later when the park opens up.


Well theoretically, there would be a group of people that could be employed by the city whose entire purpose would be to deter vandalism and other illegal activities. The could focus attention on a particular area if it is known that there's constant theft or vandalism.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 05 Oct 2021 15:57

exelone31 wrote:
Tnexster wrote:Probably not what KWP has, from what I hear from the contractor building the project the vandalism of equipment is off the charts and is an absolute constant. Not sure how you battle that later when the park opens up.


Well theoretically, there would be a group of people that could be employed by the city whose entire purpose would be to deter vandalism and other illegal activities. The could focus attention on a particular area if it is known that there's constant theft or vandalism.


Technically, if property values around the new park rise enough and some of the old hotels and apartments start coming down in favor of something new the problem could cease to be a problem. I am sure that is the long term goal. If that becomes the case we should start seeing some of that change sooner than later. In my trips through that area I do not recall seeing a lot of movement yet.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby LuvBigD » 12 Nov 2021 08:21

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politic ... deck-park/

Looks like this is going to be moving forward sooner than later.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 25 Jul 2022 11:45

LuvBigD wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/11/11/dallas-approves-deal-for-design-construction-of-i-35e-oak-cliff-deck-park/

Looks like this is going to be moving forward sooner than later.


I've noticed the park deck above the freeway is coming along and they have a pretty good tunnel going in both directions. One question about the decking, are both phases of the decking being laid during highway construction? I appears so but am not sure.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Jul 2022 15:27

Could be maybe. After all, you don't want to have to massively shut down the freeway in a year or two to build a second half when it gets funded. We know phase 2 will happen if it's this far, so building the basic deck entirely is realistic but I wonder how you keep people off it without a 10'ft fence around it and looking like a prison yard. Even if you add basic grass as a temporary filler that is going cost maintenance even if it is astroturf.
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 27 Jul 2022 14:04

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Could be maybe. After all, you don't want to have to massively shut down the freeway in a year or two to build a second half when it gets funded. We know phase 2 will happen if it's this far, so building the basic deck entirely is realistic but I wonder how you keep people off it without a 10'ft fence around it and looking like a prison yard. Even if you add basic grass as a temporary filler that is going cost maintenance even if it is astroturf.


Maybe they can use the phase 2 side as a staging area for phase 1 construction.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Aug 2022 22:36

Property investors are circling Oak Cliff’s new deck park
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/rea ... deck-park/

Several apartment buildings next to the deck park along South Lancaster Avenue were just purchased by investor Hudson Henley.

“He has patiently assembled approximately 25 acres around the deck park in what figures to be one of the biggest growth opportunities for Oak Cliff and the eventual eastward expansion of the Bishop Arts District,” said J. Scott Lake, a partner with Davidson & Bogel Real Estate LLC.

“He has been working on a master plan for the area for years and is gearing up to break ground on phase one in the next six to eight months,” Lake said.
 Henley said he plans to rehab the five old apartment buildings he just purchased along South Lancaster. The properties contain 115 rental units. He’s also moving ahead with plans for a new apartment building on a nearby site.


“Right now we are a few weeks away from building 262 apartment units, 13 townhomes and some retail on the tract that borders Ewing and Jefferson,” Henley said. “We are going to have the existing structures demolished and then the apartments will be built on a podium with a parking garage.


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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby potatocoins » 10 Aug 2022 23:44

Wow, sounds really promising! I assumed this type of development was inevitable, I just didn’t expect it to kick off so soon. Glad to see developers have so much confidence in the potential of this deck park.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby Tnexster » 19 Aug 2022 14:07

Tnexster wrote:
LuvBigD wrote:https://www.dallasnews.com/news/politics/2021/11/11/dallas-approves-deal-for-design-construction-of-i-35e-oak-cliff-deck-park/

Looks like this is going to be moving forward sooner than later.


I've noticed the park deck above the freeway is coming along and they have a pretty good tunnel going in both directions. One question about the decking, are both phases of the decking being laid during highway construction? I appears so but am not sure.


The answer here is clearly no. They are not adding the decking for phase 2 at this time. Least the beams will be easy to install when the time comes. However, I hate unfinished projects like this.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby undefinedprocess » 24 Aug 2022 15:43

Tnexster wrote:However, I hate unfinished projects like this.

I'll bring the pitchforks, you bring the torches.
Jokes aside, with you 100%.

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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 25 Aug 2022 14:33

I share the disappointment in not seeing the deck laid out for Phase 2, but I also believe in not making perfect the enemy of the good.

People forget that Klyde Warren Park was originally proposed as a set of wide sidewalks on St. Paul, Harwood and Olive, and that once the project started it almost stalled after the Great Recession, only to be rescued by the stimulus bill. I'm still not clear on what is funded and what's not, but I wonder if the recent transportation bill could funnel additional federal dollars to phase 2. Either way, phase 1 will be a massive draw for Oak Cliff.

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Location: Elmwood, Oak Cliff

Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby lakewoodhobo » 18 Oct 2023 16:19

There was a community meeting held last night and I wasn't able to attend, but some updates that I've been able to gather:

- $5M grant from Texas Parks & Wildlife announced earlier this month
- Construction still scheduled for Q4'23
- $15M requested in the bond program for Phase 2 (assuming this means Phase 1 is fully funded)

Related news:

Demolition has begun on some of the adjacent property including the old car dealership on Ewing Ave.

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dallaz
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby dallaz » 26 Oct 2023 20:10

The first phase is officially U/C

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-twKDf5rhE

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tamtagon
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby tamtagon » 26 Oct 2023 20:39

Will very interesting to see what happens around this park.

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I45Tex
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Re: Southern Gateway Public Green

Postby I45Tex » 27 Oct 2023 16:35

Let's build condos for zoo animals. Then everyone can be very interested