Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

tamtagon wrote:...especially DFW which wins the prize for best North American airport, like, all the time.

Tucy wrote:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:I think its a lot of bluster from AA trying to get DFW to foot more of the bill for D. D is going to cost 3 billion alone, and thats with the people mover already finished, sitting there waiting for a terminal to service.

Teardown/rebuild of terminals, tram, roads, taxiways will probably cost more than 1/2 of the entire net valuation of American Airlines Group. 20 Billion on the low end. Aint nobody got that kind of money.

I presume you meant to say F, not D, in your first paragraph. Where did you get the idea the new terminal will cost $3 Billion?

Hannibal Lecter wrote:

tamtagon wrote:...especially DFW which wins the prize for best North American airport, like, all the time.

Source?

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/dfw-airport/2017/03/06/dfw-international-airport-named-best-large-airport-north-america-passenger-experience

DFW International Airport was recognized Monday as the best large airport in North America for passenger satisfaction, according to a report by a leading airport industry group.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:I think its a lot of bluster from AA trying to get DFW to foot more of the bill for D. D is going to cost 3 billion alone, and thats with the people mover already finished, sitting there waiting for a terminal to service.

Teardown/rebuild of terminals, tram, roads, taxiways will probably cost more than 1/2 of the entire net valuation of American Airlines Group. 20 Billion on the low end. Aint nobody got that kind of money.

I presume you meant to say F, not D, in your first paragraph. Where did you get the idea the new terminal will cost $3 Billion?

You are correct I meant to say F. D cost $1.16 Billion and was completed 12 years ago. It would be minimum 5 years before its completed, so that is 17 years later. Construction costs have increased significantly in 17 years, it would be a miracle to complete F under $2 Billion. Likely between $2-3 Billion.

Tucy wrote:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

Tucy wrote:
I presume you meant to say F, not D, in your first paragraph. Where did you get the idea the new terminal will cost $3 Billion?

You are correct I meant to say F. D cost $1.16 Billion and was completed 12 years ago. It would be minimum 5 years before its completed, so that is 17 years later. Construction costs have increased significantly in 17 years, it would be a miracle to complete F under $2 Billion. Likely between $2-3 Billion.

Ahhhh, yes; so to summarize, you just made it up. Just like you made up the parts about tearing down the existing taxiways, roadways, terminals etc and replacing them for $20 Billion ++

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

Tucy wrote:

Alex Rodriguez wrote:
You are correct I meant to say F. D cost $1.16 Billion and was completed 12 years ago. It would be minimum 5 years before its completed, so that is 17 years later. Construction costs have increased significantly in 17 years, it would be a miracle to complete F under $2 Billion. Likely between $2-3 Billion.

Ahhhh, yes; so to summarize, you just made it up. Just like you made up the parts about tearing down the existing taxiways, roadways, terminals etc and replacing them for $20 Billion ++

Its an educated guess, not sure why you are taking it personal. It's going to be north of 2 Billion at this point, and likely closer to 3. That's not a knock on anyone. A complete teardown of all terminals and tram, and building of ginomous new 170 gate terminal is going to be a huge project. Laguardia is not even remotely comparable in scope and size. 10 Billion is a conservative estimate, maybe 20 Billion is high but its going to be between 10 and 20.

All I'm saying is that the chances of a complete teardown/redesign of DFW are almost nil despite what it's biggest tenant is complaining about. American airlines is basically worth 2 or 3 DFW airport redesigns at best, and that is just 1 airport. Yes it's hub, but nobody has 10 Billion - 20 Billion to do this project.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong.

longhorn wrote:

flyswatter wrote:I think AA is looking for some deal with DFW for Terminal F and/or Terminal C.

The airport just spent over a billion dollars renovating A, B, and E. The logistics required to bulldoze all 5 terminals to build one GIANT terminal that has the same amount or more gates (DFW has 165 currently, PHX has 116) would be insane and in my opinion would seriously hurt AA since it's their largest hub.

Per the post on Anet, think central terminal like PHX or IAH with long linear concourses on either side. Think Delta's DTW McNamara terminal. That almost one mile concourse has like 64 gates. So two of those gets you 128 gates right there. Again, the median of International Parkway is more than wide enough to fit a terminal like PHX or IAH in it, and AA gets out of having to have man power in four different terminals.

Build it on Terminal F spot and south. Move the crossing taxis over the Parkway further south, way south down where the end of runway taxiway is. DFW is in South flow 90% of the year and it would make more efficient for aircraft ops.

Alot of this is speculation, we will see what AA and DFW comes up with.

longhorn wrote:Over on an airline enthusiast website, they are stating AA wants to move away from the horse shoe concept and move to something like IAH or PHX terminal layout. Expect an announcement soon.

A terminal layout like IAH or PHX would work being built in the median of International Parkway. Speeds would definately be lowered and International Parkway would have to cease being a conduit to get from Grapevine to Arlington.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ A much bigger need is to bring back streetside (outside of security) trains. It shouldn't take 25 minutes to get back to your car after you get your bags.

Matt777 wrote:Rumor on Airliners.net is that Cathay Pacific, the airline of Hong Kong, will be launching HKG-DFW to complement Oneworld partner AA's service to Hong Kong. I have flown them twice, and their service is excellent in all classes!

No kidding... Such a system should be much smaller scale (2-4 people max), but with much greater frequency (on demand), and A-Z custom route automation.

The_Overdog wrote:

No kidding... Such a system should be much smaller scale (2-4 people max), but with much greater frequency (on demand), and A-Z custom route automation.

What? DFW is setup perfectly in this regard. If getting to your car quickly is a priority to you, then you have to pay to park in the garage right outside the terminal. It makes no sense to spend much money on anything other than the buses they have to get to remote parking lots.

The_Overdog wrote:

No kidding... Such a system should be much smaller scale (2-4 people max), but with much greater frequency (on demand), and A-Z custom route automation.

What? DFW is setup perfectly in this regard. If getting to your car quickly is a priority to you, then you have to pay to park in the garage right outside the terminal. It makes no sense to spend much money on anything other than the buses they have to get to remote parking lots.

You NEVER return to the same terminal you left from. NEVER.

Matt777 wrote:WOW Air of Iceland, a low cost carrier, will be starting DFW-Reykjavik flights in May 2018. 3 flights per week on an Airbus A330. Fares start at $99 one way to Iceland, and $149 one way connecting flights to Europe (with everything including bags costing extra). Hopefully this will at least give us some price relief on nonstops to Europe with the traditional carriers, who seem to be gouging lately.

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2017/09/06/wow- ... w-airport/

The_Overdog wrote:

You NEVER return to the same terminal you left from. NEVER.

I have before and returned to the same terminal actually, but fair enough. A quick check shows it's about 10% into the same terminal - mine was a unicorn. I think that would be better fixed by changing AA procedures to be more customer friendly, but I agree its a problem.

Do you expect them to take a poll of all the passengers on the plane to see where the majority of them parked?

The_Overdog wrote:

Do you expect them to take a poll of all the passengers on the plane to see where the majority of them parked?

No of course not, but flight pairs to specific airports (for example LAX) could take off and land from the same terminal. Would that really be that difficult to implement?

electricron wrote:And if you're like most wise and cheap customers, you're parking in the remote parking lots and will be riding a bus to your parked car anyways.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:The wise and cheap demographic gets a friend or family member to drop them off. Your business travelers aren't worried about the cost -- they just expense it.

I Googled and Googled and couldn't find the exact figures, but I know that DFW has a LOT more terminal parking spaces than they have remote spaces. And my experience has been that the terminal lots are usually more full except around the holidays.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ You can't use the existing people mover if you have checked baggage. That's the problem.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ So you pack your 1 liter bottle of water, 8 ounce tube of toothpaste and/or Aunt Mary's cherry pie -- all of which are verboten in carry on luggage -- in your checked bag, fly to another airport, transfer them to your carry on an board another plane?

DFW Airport unveils country's largest duty-free store inside Terminal D

Conor Shine, Aviation Writer

...That’s coincided with a shift at DFW and elsewhere that has seen duty-free stores moving away from the days when only outbound international passengers could shop there and instead cater to shoppers of all types. At DFW, domestic passengers in the terminal can buy anything at the duty-free store except liquor and cigarettes.
...“If we’re going to compete globally, we have to have the same design elements that are found in other parts of the globe. In fact, we want to excel beyond those,” he said.
...Its opening will provide a financial boost for DFW Airport, which counts concessions as its second-largest source of non-airline revenue — about $82 million in the most recent fiscal year — after parking.

Not an elite frequent flier? A new breed of airport lounges has a spot for you

Conor Shine, Aviation Writer

Around the country, travelers looking to relax with a snack and a drink before their flight are finding more and more options to visit an airport lounge, even if they don't have elite status on one of the country's major airlines. It’s part of a growing nationwide trend that’s seen third-party lounges — already popular at airports across Europe and Asia — taking up residence at U.S. hubs, including DFW International Airport. These lounge operators are aiming to capitalize on the shifting airline loyalty landscape and growing numbers of international visitors to the U.S. to attract an audience of lounge-savvy travelers in need of a place to unwind.
...“It’s very interesting to watch,” Harteveldt said of the lounge developments. “It’s no longer the invited few or the road warrior that have access to [airport] lounges.”

jrd1964 wrote:In recent days, the south acreage along TX 183 between County Line Rd. and Valley View Ln. has been the site of tree cutting. As of the last couple of nights, the cut down trees and brush have not been cleared as of yet. The airport has brought up before about having some kind of mixed-use project built on their land; maybe this is the spot, if so (?).