Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

DFW Airport is getting $40 million from the Federal Aviation Administration for a number of infrastructure upgrades, including rehabilitating one of the airport’s key runways.

The grant funding, which comes through the FAA’s Airport Improvement Program, was announced Wednesday.

Half of the funds will go toward the expansion of an aircraft apron, commonly known as the tarmac, south of Terminal D.

A template already existed in Europe’s mostly privatized airports, which typically depend on aviation to cover about 30 percent of their expenses, according to Brian Carroll, a vice president of the public institutions group at the Chicago office of business services firm JLL, which advises management teams at numerous airports. The other 70 percent, he says, comes from a variety of sources, including concessions, industrial and commercial real estate leases, and developing office buildings on unused airport land. “America is roughly the inverse, though we’re getting better,” he says.

DFW, which had thousands of available acres upon which to build, was well positioned to follow that model.

Dallas Fort Worth International Airport to add refrigeration facilities to serve cargo customers
Feb 3, 2017
Bill Hethcock -- Dallas Business Journal

Dallas Fort Worth International Airport will install a cold chain facility that will allow cargo and logistics customers to ship perishable items through one of the world’s biggest international gateways ... operated by AirLogistix USA ... give DFW Airport the ability to precisely control warehousing temperatures for shipments of pharmaceuticals, flowers and fresh foods.

...Today, DFW Airport handles 66 percent of the air cargo from Texas, and its cargo tonnage increased by more than 8 percent over last year and is up 18 percent this year ... DFW handles more than 794,600 U.S. tons of air freight...Fourteen dedicated freighters serve 22 major cargo hubs throughout Asia, Europe and North America from DFW. Aircraft belly cargo capacity is also available to more than 200 global destinations on the 26 passenger airlines that serve the airport.

tamtagon wrote:This is probably a really big deal, ice breaker of a sort, perhaps leading to DFW becoming a much more prominent cargo airport.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... o-add.html

Dallas Fort Worth International Airport to add refrigeration facilities to serve cargo customers
Feb 3, 2017
Bill Hethcock -- Dallas Business Journal

Dallas Fort Worth International Airport will install a cold chain facility that will allow cargo and logistics customers to ship perishable items through one of the world’s biggest international gateways ... operated by AirLogistix USA ... give DFW Airport the ability to precisely control warehousing temperatures for shipments of pharmaceuticals, flowers and fresh foods.

...Today, DFW Airport handles 66 percent of the air cargo from Texas, and its cargo tonnage increased by more than 8 percent over last year and is up 18 percent this year ... DFW handles more than 794,600 U.S. tons of air freight...Fourteen dedicated freighters serve 22 major cargo hubs throughout Asia, Europe and North America from DFW. Aircraft belly cargo capacity is also available to more than 200 global destinations on the 26 passenger airlines that serve the airport.

While build-out of Terminal F has been an ongoing discussion for a couple years now, I wonder what is the condition of DFW's cargo infrastructure. Just now gaining the ability to keep refrigerated incoming cargo make me wonder what other capabilities need to be added and/or improved. Increasing international cargo movement through DFW could easily transform the airport's global position. International passengers increase as trade movement increases, drawing an even greater number of airline operators to DFW.

Certainly oneworld members will have a welcome mat for increasing the dual cargo and passenger movement through DFW with the pervasive domestic reach of American, but bringing more SkyTeam carriers to the airport will not only expand the reach to the world from North Texas but solidify DFW (again) as a dual hub airport.

While the build-out of Terminal F has been a thing for a couple years now, it's heady to think that passenger and cargo infrastructure expansion may be the next big project, even bigger than the current terminals renovation project.

Tucy wrote:I think someone needs to do some fact-checking (I'm referring to the author of the DBJ article). I'm highly skeptical of the statement that DFW handles 66 % of the air cargo from Texas; I can find no support for that claim anywhere and the information in the FAA page linked below seems to completely disprove it. And I'm wondering where he came up with 794,600 tons of air freight.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_c ... rports.pdf

tamtagon wrote:

Tucy wrote:I think someone needs to do some fact-checking (I'm referring to the author of the DBJ article). I'm highly skeptical of the statement that DFW handles 66 % of the air cargo from Texas; I can find no support for that claim anywhere and the information in the FAA page linked below seems to completely disprove it. And I'm wondering where he came up with 794,600 tons of air freight.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_c ... rports.pdf

ya totally

maybe they meant North Texas...

For DFW Airport, an increase in federal aviation dollars could permit or speed the construction of a sixth terminal, Hegarty said.

He declined to give even a ballpark estimate of the cost of a new terminal. The last terminal constructed at DFW Airport, Terminal D, opened 12 years ago at a cost of $1.2 billion at the time, but terminal costs vary extremely widely based on size, design, location and other factors.

The airport is in discussions with its largest tenant, American Airlines, about possibly building a sixth terminal, DFW Airport CEO Sean Donohue has said.

With the area’s population and economic growth, the airport’s existing 165 gates will not be enough to handle the region’s projected growth, he said. The proposed Terminal F could add about 30 gates. Donohue said in past discussions that he hopes to open a new terminal early in 2020 or soon after.

The airport served roughly 65 million passengers in 2016 and is projected to grow to 70 million passengers annually in the next five to ten years.

Tnexster wrote:Trump airport stimulus could speed construction of 6th terminal at DFW International

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/ ... on-of.html

...With the area’s population and economic growth, the airport’s existing 165 gates will not be enough to handle the region’s projected growth, he said. The proposed Terminal F could add about 30 gates. Donohue said in past discussions that he hopes to open a new terminal early in 2020 or soon after.

I45Tex wrote:I stay out of the airports conversations, but I have been wondering lately what the maximum passenger capacity of DFW will be. I know there must be a lot of variables, including:

air traffic control spacing
taxiway and runway infrastructure for aircraft movements
terminal capacity
noise control regimes
number of passengers per aircraft

I would guess, since DFW was originally planned for as many as 13 terminals and 260 gates, and since we are already the second highest capacity site on the continent in terms of ATC operations (after Denver), that the second and fourth variables would be the constraining ones here.

[url]When Terminal D was beginning, there was talk of an eighth runway breaking ground as well:
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 74172.html[/url]

I suppose future terminals will be catering to A380s and other similar models; we have seven runways but some airports with as few as two or three (DXB, for instance) already exceed our annual traffic simply due to larger aircraft.

At any rate, what is the likely range of upper limits for DFW annual traffic?

tamtagon wrote:Entities tasked with creating a favorable business climate in North Texas cannot allow the global reach of a dual alliance hub slip away. To compete with San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zurich and raise the game to Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Milan, Singapore, the big airport cannot supply the region access to the rest of the world with only one global alliances hub.

tamtagon wrote:I'm still not buying the future of this airport as a single alliance hub.

Air carriers as well as the host population center will effectively require DFW to accommodate major connecting hub activity for at least two of the Global Alliances based on the cumulative impact from at least these three factors: I-35 corridor growth; consolidation, 'settling-in' and stabilizing relations among global passenger and cargo traffic suppliers; and aircraft capacity/range/efficiency increases.

The mid-continent location allows for easier transfers with longest-range international flights applying to a third of the North American population versus coastal hubs; mid-continent is very strategic as a pit-stop for the half-way-around the world flights; ace in the hole: airport expansion will not limited by the natural or built world for a very long time.

Entities tasked with creating a favorable business climate in North Texas cannot allow the global reach of a dual alliance hub slip away. To compete with San Francisco, Sydney, Toronto, Zurich, Brussels, Madrid, Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Moscow, Seoul and raise the game to Chicago, Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Los Angeles, Milan, Singapore, the big airport cannot supply the region access to the rest of the world with only one global alliances hub.

Realizing oneworld currently provides pervasive North America connectivity is one thing, relying on that partnership to connect to the rest of the world is another. With Star operating out of Houston, it's only logical for Sky Team to join oneworld at DFW. AA freaks can (and should) stand down knowing the regrowth of a domestic Delta hub would be mostly dedicated to SkyTeam partner access.

Low-cost and innovative ideas include doing what McCandless described as a recurring “coffee shop takeover” in Dallas to let travelers know about Billings-area attractions. “We hope to get them to serve huckleberry latte,” she said with a smile.

Hannibal Lecter wrote:I'm surprised it's taken so long. When I've flown Lufthansa or one of the ME3 it seems like half the plane is on their way to India or Pakistan.

Of course the downside to Air India serving DFW is that Lufthansa will probably leave.

xen0blue wrote:Why would Lufthansa leave if Air India comes? Why are the two mutually exclusive?

The plan is widely supported by commercial airlines, including American Airlines and Southwest, who argue changing management is key to speeding up the modernization of the system’s aging infrastructure, which in turn can improve efficiency and reduce traffic congestion as more and more people take to the skies each year.

Dbrock wrote:How does DFW rank worldwide among the world's busiest airports?

Now that Terminal A completely reopened in January, American said it needs more time to evaluate its future needs at DFW, including the possibility of building a sixth terminal, Terminal F.

“Frankly, we’re kind of a new airline since the TRIP project started,” said Tim Skipworth, American’s Vice President of Airport Affairs. “We have to think about what’s going to happen on the F site and what we and the airport agree should be built on the F site and then roll that all together.”

Options include keeping Terminal C open while they build Terminal F and then tearing down C if the airport does not need the extra gate space. Or the airport could decide to renovate Terminal C after F is open so American and other airlines would not need to give up gates during construction like they did while Terminals A, B, and E underwent renovations.

flyswatter wrote:I think AA is looking for some deal with DFW for Terminal F and/or Terminal C.

The airport just spent over a billion dollars renovating A, B, and E. The logistics required to bulldoze all 5 terminals to build one GIANT terminal that has the same amount or more gates (DFW has 165 currently, PHX has 116) would be insane and in my opinion would seriously hurt AA since it's their largest hub.

longhorn wrote:Per the post on Anet, think central terminal like PHX or IAH with long linear concourses on either side. Think Delta's DTW McNamara terminal. That almost one mile concourse has like 64 gates. So two of those gets you 128 gates right there. Again, the median of International Parkway is more than wide enough to fit a terminal like PHX or IAH in it, and AA gets out of having to have man power in four different terminals.

Build it on Terminal F spot and south. Move the crossing taxis over the Parkway further south, way south down where the end of runway taxiway is. DFW is in South flow 90% of the year and it would make more efficient for aircraft ops.

Alot of this is speculation, we will see what AA and DFW comes up with.

longhorn wrote:

flyswatter wrote:I think AA is looking for some deal with DFW for Terminal F and/or Terminal C.

The airport just spent over a billion dollars renovating A, B, and E. The logistics required to bulldoze all 5 terminals to build one GIANT terminal that has the same amount or more gates (DFW has 165 currently, PHX has 116) would be insane and in my opinion would seriously hurt AA since it's their largest hub.

Per the post on Anet, think central terminal like PHX or IAH with long linear concourses on either side. Think Delta's DTW McNamara terminal. That almost one mile concourse has like 64 gates. So two of those gets you 128 gates right there. Again, the median of International Parkway is more than wide enough to fit a terminal like PHX or IAH in it, and AA gets out of having to have man power in four different terminals.

Build it on Terminal F spot and south. Move the crossing taxis over the Parkway further south, way south down where the end of runway taxiway is. DFW is in South flow 90% of the year and it would make more efficient for aircraft ops.

Alot of this is speculation, we will see what AA and DFW comes up with.

Alex Rodriguez wrote:I think its a lot of bluster from AA trying to get DFW to foot more of the bill for D. D is going to cost 3 billion alone, and thats with the people mover already finished, sitting there waiting for a terminal to service.

Teardown/rebuild of terminals, tram, roads, taxiways will probably cost more than 1/2 of the entire net valuation of American Airlines Group. 20 Billion on the low end. Aint nobody got that kind of money.

tamtagon wrote:There's enough land to have both, right?

Americans airport infrastructure has fallen a generation behind the rest of the world, so it could be exceptionally AAdvantageous to repurpose one or parts of more of the terminals into shopping mall, office, meeting, luxury resort spa.... and a new terminal closer to the south entrance.