DFW Airport

[Matt777]

That new (to me) artist's conception looking from the east shows how lame this new "terminal" really is.

One new (again, to me) fact in this article: The gates are only for narrow-bodies. No big planes allowed.

It's so bad. It's like they purposely went wayyy out of their way to make sure it had zero style, zero design, zero interest. It's so basic and sterile. It brings up memories of some of the specialized separate low cost carrier "terminals" built in some airports in Asia and Europe. Actually nevermind, most of those terminals look better than this turd trailer house masquerading as an airport terminal....

And this may end up being the most expensive terminal per square foot ever built in the USA. Just wow.

[CTroyMathis]

Ikea Airport Dwelling Unit.

[MC_ScattCat]

My guess this will be built to free up some gates at terminals A & D for widebodies to use and send the domestic terminal D stuff to this terminal or other gates.

I agree the CC stuff is more exciting and they are rebuilding the parking garages. The little lights over the spaces and the signs showing spaces available are really a wonderful improvement.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Work on DFW Airport’s sixth terminal could start as early as February
The airport’s governing board is set to approve a $914 million contract for Terminal F Thursday.


Good to see this activity moving quickly. DFW Airport is a really well run org.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... -february/

"“It’s probably the premier design-build construction project in the country that we’re going to see over the next few years,” said Raj Narayanan, DFW Airport board member and CEO and managing partner of Aerospace Quality Research and Development at the board committee meeting on Tuesday."
The premier design-build construction project in the country?? Mate, what renderings are you looking at??????? This is like the portable classroom version of an airport terminal.

[I45Tex]

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB1hvcOj.img?w=3566&h=1988&m=4&q=60

IMG_2556.jpeg

[rickbansal]

My guess this will be built to free up some gates at terminals A & D for widebodies to use and send the domestic terminal D stuff to this terminal or other gates.

Agree with this thought. Also, it may not be the sexiest of designs but it's likely to be the most functional for what is needed at this time. Recall that DFW is a major domestic and international hub. They need more gates to improve transit and if this get done faster via this current design then so be it.

[I45Tex]

And this may end up being the most expensive terminal per square foot ever built in the USA. Just wow.

Even though $2,720,000,000 of the project cost has nothing to do with Terminal F, I still don't see what will make a 15 gate concourse rack up $1,600,000,000+ in project costs. Might as well build a private rail link to Love Field and use that terminal for less money.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

And this may end up being the most expensive terminal per square foot ever built in the USA. Just wow.

Even though $2,720,000,000 of the project cost has nothing to do with Terminal F, I still don't see what will make a 15 gate concourse rack up $1,600,000,000+ in project costs. Might as well build a private rail link to Love Field and use that terminal for less money.

It really makes no sense to me, what am I missing? I've stared at the renderings and feel like I'm losing my mind.
PGA's new headquarters cost 500 million. Universal is building a small theme park for 500 million. AT&T stadium cost 1.3 billion to build. Museum tower cost 200 million. Amli Fountain Place cost 150 million. I get there's inflation and all that, but yall telling me this squat rectangle with half of a skylink station requires a 914 million construction contract?

[Hannibal Lecter]

Also, it may not be the sexiest of designs but it's likely to be the most functional for what is needed at this time. Recall that DFW is a major domestic and international hub. They need more gates to improve transit and if this get done faster via this current design then so be it.

No terminal parking. No ticket counters. No baggage check. No security checkpoint. No baggage claim. One single-point-of-failure Skylink station to connect to all of the above.

Sorry, that doesn't translate to "most functional" in my book.

[rickbansal]

Also, it may not be the sexiest of designs but it's likely to be the most functional for what is needed at this time. Recall that DFW is a major domestic and international hub. They need more gates to improve transit and if this get done faster via this current design then so be it.

No terminal parking. No ticket counters. No baggage check. No security checkpoint. No baggage claim. One single-point-of-failure Skylink station to connect to all of the above.

Sorry, that doesn't translate to "most functional" in my book.

The regret is that it's being called a "terminal" as that implies all that you've listed above of which none (except Skylink station) will be available. I'm hopeful the DFW Airport leadership in concert with AA leadership know what is best for growth. I've been traveling from the airport since 1990 and the decisions made thus far have improved the airport.

[I45Tex]

Those two numbers I used were ones I read on the crankyflier's post about the new terminal last May; may not be up to date now, I realized too late.

[MC_ScattCat]

I don't know the costs or how they came up with their numbers, but working at an airport isn't cheap let alone the second busiest one in the world. I'm sure a large portion of the cost is going towards admin or logistics associated with airport construction.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

Those two numbers I used were ones I read on the crankyflier's post about the new terminal last May; may not be up to date now, I realized too late.

You're good, those numbers are still accurate.
"In May, DFW Airport and American Airlines signed a deal for $4.8 billion in expansions, including $1.6 billion for the new terminal."
The 914 million portion of that 1.6 is the construction contract for the terminal building and skylink station, the rest of the 1.6 billion I'd imagine is for the miscellaneous infrastructure work around the terminal? I don't know how it hits 1.6, but 1.6 is what's set for Terminal F. And there's not even a parking garage component that could explain some of the cost.

It's especially confusing since they're using the modular construction method they've become a big fan of, of which the airport CEO says "That saves us 30% in time and it saves us almost 35% in cost."
So if this were built with traditional methods the rectangle would genuinely have cost the same as the new Texas Rangers stadium? The thing has a retractable roof on it!

[itsjrd1964]

Also, it may not be the sexiest of designs but it's likely to be the most functional for what is needed at this time. Recall that DFW is a major domestic and international hub. They need more gates to improve transit and if this get done faster via this current design then so be it.

No terminal parking. No ticket counters. No baggage check. No security checkpoint. No baggage claim. One single-point-of-failure Skylink station to connect to all of the above.

Sorry, that doesn't translate to "most functional" in my book.

So when someone flies out of F and needs a ticket counter, they have to go to another terminal first? When someone flies into F and needs to get their bag, they have to go to another terminal to find it? Functional?? Sounds like "F" stands for something else....

[I45Tex]

Large airports like Atlanta and Denver were designed to have midfield terminals that relatively few fliers will use to deplane to the city itself. They are for efficiently re-sorting different bundles of airside transfer passengers.

If this is what F is for, then it might have been wiser not to occupy such a prime frontage, and in fact I would have thought that these kinds of airside terminals could go perfectly on the far side of either the northern or southern pairs of cross-taxiways (unless a lot of international passengers were switching to their domestic final flights in F).

Yet if the airport authority figures there never will be demand for too many more terminal sites, then it makes sense not to add extra infrastructure extensions to reach a more distant F.

[Hannibal Lecter]

So when someone flies out of F and needs a ticket counter, they have to go to another terminal first?

Even if they don't need a ticket counter or to check a bag they still have to go through another terminal. No TSA checkpoint in F.

[Hannibal Lecter]

It's pretty obvious that F was designed specially to be inconvenient to local travelers. There's only one airline at DFW that has more than a trivial amount of connecting flights. That airline pays 85% of the bills, so they get what they want. And what they don't want is Southwest competing with them at DFW. So they build a new terminal which is absolutely useless to Southwest.

[rickbansal]

I wonder if the FIFA World Cup announcement on Sunday has any bearing on the new "terminal"?

[I45Tex]

With Spirit and JetBlue's merger now canceled, and Spirit and Frontier's merger canceled, if Alaska and Hawaiian's merger gets canceled there won't be too many remaining combinations that are possible for those airlines to scale up to try to compete against the Big Four.

JetBlue/Alaska, Allegiant/Alaska, or Frontier/Alaska would have coast-to-coast route maps that needed expansion in the DFW section of the country. I could see that as DFW's best chance to restore what we lost when Delta retrenched. As of December, 76% of passengers at ATL are for Delta, and 82.3% of passengers at DFW are for AA (down from 83.6% a year previous, which says that more of our recent passenger growth has been non-AA airlines).

https://www.dfwairport.com/business/about/stats/

[MC_ScattCat]

I don't see the govt. blocking the Hawaiian/Alaska merger. Hawaiian is relatively small and Hawaii is served by pretty much every airline already so there is plenty of competitors. Even Hawaiians long haul routes have competition from American, Delta, and United.

[flyswatter]

Hawaiian also does flying to Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand. Government would probably prefer to keep an american airline on those routes. Their flying to American Samoa is likely also heavy cargo and the island relies on it since no other passenger airline operates to it.