DFW Airport

[ajderry2017]

https://www.wfaa.com/amp/article/travel ... c3846ef463

[itsjrd1964]

DFW is world's second-busiest airport after Atlanta Hartsfield-Jackson

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... the-world/

[Tnexster]

DFW Airport sets stage to restart work on sixth terminal with new airlines lease
The new pact with American Airlines and others would replace the 2010 use and lease agreement for 10 years, beginning Oct. 1.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... nes-lease/

[Tnexster]

DMN version

New $1.6 billion terminal at DFW Airport will bring 15 added gates and dozens of flights
American Airlines and DFW International Airport officials came to agreement for $4.8 billion in expansions including a new Terminal F.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... -terminal/

[MC_ScattCat]

Interesting renderings. Looks like they're not adding any parking garages for this terminal. I think the pandemic has shifted DFW into a top tier international airport now. DFW both city and airport have really weathered that storm better than just about any other. I hope we see more international carriers soon.

[Tnexster]

Doesn't that layout make it a little more difficult to use the tram?

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

All these decades of holding on to that space I was half expecting Terminal F to be a new centerpiece of the airport when this is clearly just the new overflow terminal. Looks about as barebones and disposable as could possibly be.

[Tnexster]

All these decades of holding on to that space I was half expecting Terminal F to be a new centerpiece of the airport when this is clearly just the new overflow terminal. Looks about as barebones and disposable as could possibly be.

Thank you, I thought it was just me. This looks like one of those projects they can manufacture nearby and just roll into place. Think they did that for another terminal expansion recently.

[tamtagon]

They're economizing when they should be spending.

[Tucy]

All these decades of holding on to that space I was half expecting Terminal F to be a new centerpiece of the airport when this is clearly just the new overflow terminal. Looks about as barebones and disposable as could possibly be.

Thank you, I thought it was just me. This looks like one of those projects they can manufacture nearby and just roll into place. Think they did that for another terminal expansion recently.

It definitely looks like they plan to use the modular construction method they have been using at Terminal C. Also, the rendering looks like it might be accessible only by Skylink; if so, it's really a new concourse, not a new terminal.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

This article has a non-photo version of the rendering:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/dallas-fort-worth/news/2023/05/16/-4-8b-dfw-airport-expansion-plan-includes-construction-of-6th-terminal-

It definitely looks like they plan to use the modular construction method they have been using at Terminal C. Also, the rendering looks like it might be accessible only by Skylink; if so, it's really a new concourse, not a new terminal.

I think you're right. There doesn't seem to be enough space for ticketing and security. There is not even enough space for retail/dining because there are gates on every side of the building. I wouldn't expect much beyond a convenience store and maybe a starbucks in that entryway connecting to the skylink.
Speaking of which, that's a hell of an inconvenient distance for the skylink to be from the gates considering every other terminal is directly attached to their skylink station.

Well damn, I hope I never have to fly out of this. This sucks.

[dfwcre8tive]

All these decades of holding on to that space I was half expecting Terminal F to be a new centerpiece of the airport when this is clearly just the new overflow terminal. Looks about as barebones and disposable as could possibly be.

Thank you, I thought it was just me. This looks like one of those projects they can manufacture nearby and just roll into place. Think they did that for another terminal expansion recently.

It definitely looks like they plan to use the modular construction method they have been using at Terminal C. Also, the rendering looks like it might be accessible only by Skylink; if so, it's really a new concourse, not a new terminal.

It does look more like a concourse vs a terminal, and modifying into a full terminal in the future could be complicated. If they are going for the linear pier approach, wouldn't it be better to focus Phase 1 on one of the skylink station areas (built out diagonally), eliminating long walks? The other corner could be developed as a Phase 2 pier, and a terminal (ticketing+baggage) could later be added somewhere as a middle connection. This current proposal seems short-sighted.

terminalf.jpg

[MC_ScattCat]

My guess would be based on this rendering the new terminal F would be for the 737 and A320 mainline planes freeing up all the gates at terminal D for the heavy/super planes. This plus the new piers at A and C could also free up the gates taken at B by mainline planes so they can go back to all regionals at B.

[Matt777]

There's a lively discussion about this going on in the forum's discord channel.

This travesty is probably the product of a possibly unethical and possibly illegal collaboration between Dallas Mayor Eric Johnson, Fort Worth Mayor Mattie Parker, DFW Airport management, and American Airlines management to shut out Southwest from ever operating at DFW Airport and to reduce air travel competition for DFW area based flyers. A prime example of putting corporate interests above the citizens they were elected or appointed to serve.

Not going to go through all the reasons in yet another post, but that's what this incomprehensibly bad proposal is all about. Southwest can't expand at Love Field, McKinney voters turned down a bond to build a passenger terminal there, and Fort Worth based AA basically owns that city so we likely won't see an airport open there for usage by SWA, so SWA is basically locked out from any growth in DFW until some random suburb decides to build an airport (unlikely). Southwest can legally expand to any DFW area airport in 2025 without giving up gates at Love, but they can't do that unless there are viable gates to use and set up an operation at a meaningful and profitable scale.

Only having 15 gates in "terminal" F, along with no dedicated check-in, baggage, or security areas, ensures that there's no room for SWA and that it would be difficult to base a new entrant there. This new "terminal" is 100% for AA connecting passengers (and having SWA passengers check in at terminal D and then skylink to terminal F for their flights would probably not appeal to SWA either).

Can't wait to fly out of terminal A on AA, land at terminal F, and skylink to terminal D for my baggage. Oh, and AA can continue to raise prices and gouge DFW based passengers to their heart's content since they've locked out any meaningful competition for the next 30 years. What a mess.

I usually defend AA, but this is sickening. Not surprised, but sickened. Especially by our city "leader."

[Hannibal Lecter]

I don't know about the collusion part, but Matt777's analysis is excellent.

One other point I haven't seen anyone make. Based on the the artwork, you've got a concourse with one SkyLink station, no roadway access and no pedestrian bridges to other terminals. Even the Terminal D extension which was supposed to connect to F is nowhere close. The ultimate single point of failure.

[IcedCowboyCoffee]

If this is indeed skylink-dependent there's no way they'll end up calling this Terminal F. Surely it will be "Terminal D Satellite" and the gates will be D41-D56, or something like that. That way there would be no room for doubt as to what terminal people need to be driving into/getting dropped off at so they could then be directed to the skylink. The simple problem the airport would face in explaining to people with a Terminal F flight ticket that they have to actually go to any other terminal instead, and expecting them to already know this before they pull into the airport... I just can't see this.
The average person doesn't think about the fact that they can go in through any terminal to reach any other terminal. So, crafting an entire terminal that would be dependent on them knowing this fact seems so boneheaded that I can't imagine it's true.

The skylink dependency is the one thing that has me convinced there is something we are all missing and can't gleam from this side of the artwork. Just thinking about the logistics of a scenario when the skylink goes down and what that would entail, I have to imagine there will indeed be one little hub of security and ticketing and bus access somewhere in this thing.

But yeah, all that in mind, the sheer fact that this is only getting 15 gates while the Terminal C extension is getting 24 all on its own and twice the investment, this is a deeply unserious Terminal F. Like I said, it's overflow. Just something cheap to make some of the connecting flights easier to coordinate I am sure. (Edit: D'oh, got that wrong, it's 24 total, so this is getting 15 and A and C are getting the rest. My bad. I knew that felt off lol)

[Tucy]

If this is indeed skylink dependent there's no way they'll end up calling this Terminal F. Surely it will be "Terminal D Satellite" and the gates will simply be D41-D56, or something like that. That way there would be no room for doubt as to what terminal people need to be driving into/getting dropped off at so they could eventually be directed to the skylink. The simple problem the airport would face in explaining to people with a Terminal F flight ticket that they have to actually go to any other terminal instead, and expecting them to already know this before they pull into the airport... I just can't see this.
The average person doesn't think about the fact that they can go in through any terminal to reach any other terminal, so crafting an an entire terminal that would be dependent on them knowing this seems so boneheaded that I can't imagine it's true.

The skylink dependency is the one thing that has me convinced there is something we are all missing and can't gleam from this side of the artwork. Just thinking about the logistics of a scenario when the skylink goes down and what that would entail, I have to imagine there will indeed be one little hub of security and ticketing and bus access somewhere in this thing.

But yeah, all that in mind, the sheer fact that this is only getting 15 gates while the Terminal C extension is getting 24 all on its own and twice the investment, this is a deeply unserious Terminal F. Like I said, it's overflow. Just something cheap to make some of the connecting flights easier to coordinate I am sure. (Edit: D'oh, got that wrong, it's 24 total, so this is getting 15 and A and C are getting the rest. My bad. I knew that felt off lol)

Excellent points. But we have to balance that perfect logic against the DFW desire to tell the world we have six terminals. My guess is the marketing desire outweighs the logic.

[tamtagon]

If it's just for connecting flights, which would be a logistical wetdream for America airlines, this extension is ideal. Banking flights is too profitable to give up so build the terminal to make it easier for the customer. Won't lower the price for locals.

[rickbansal]

Yeah, the rendering doesn't make any sense. There seems to be parking on the secure side of airport.

[Tnexster]

This helps make some sense of their thought process. The chart on projections through 2050 really shows where Love lacks potential for growth in Dallas.

DFW Airport travelers’ top 10 destinations, a forecast for future flyer demand and more
DFW International Airport and American Airlines announced plans for a 15-gate Terminal F, backed by the growth of the hometown carrier.

https://www.dallasnews.com/business/air ... is-coming/