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Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 14:03
by Tivo_Kenevil
This is what happens when you cut corners and go after "value engineering".

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 14:09
by DPatel304
Huitt-Zollars, the supervising engineering firm, told the city in a letter dated May 25 that there are two possible fixes — or "cable system retrofit alternatives," according to Broadnax — that might resolve the vibration issues. One, the firm said, involves replacing rods and sockets connecting the arches to the bridge.

The other involves replacing the entire cable assembly — and, essentially, starting over.


I didn't really pay much attention to this issue at first, but, now that I've read the article, this is worse than I thought...

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Jul 2018 17:16
by Tnexster
It is worse than most people thought and it deserves much more attention, a little embarrassing news coverage can do wonders for fixing problems.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 11:32
by dallaz
I swear the City of Dallas is so incompetent at times. Who skips a cable stress test to save money? I really can’t understand the thought process behind that. Now, the City has to pay millions just to fix an issue that could have been done right the first time.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 04 Jul 2018 11:42
by tamtagon
Even if they would not stick in a courtroom, I'd like to see charges brought against the people or person making the decisions that lead to a worthless bridge.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 05 Jul 2018 09:55
by cowboyeagle05
Probably the same people who made budgetary savings on the Water Rapids down in the Trinity. Supposedly that was a city staff design change as well. The original design drawn up for the water rapids was much prettier and safer in design but arguments between the engineering firm and the city on cost turned it into the boondoggle they are having to tear out now. Cost savings measures were implemented severely.

I get the feeling though its not the staff member who is making the decision its someone else higher up who keeps pressuring to save money to the extreme no matter what the product result is. City staff members operate based on political direction from higher-ups dealing with council members, community leaders, and money talks groups outside the official channels. It seems like someone higher up is so worried about cost overruns they may be forcing changes that are costing the city tons of stress and more money.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 09 Jul 2018 14:00
by DPatel304
McDermott Bridge May Have to Be Demolished Like Fake Kayak Rapids
http://www.dallasobserver.com/news/some ... d-10880572

Here's another article on the subject (I haven't had a chance to read this one just yet). I really wonder how all of this will play out, because this is quite a disaster at the moment.

Personally, I only care about the hike/bike trail. Creating a loop in the Trinity River area might be a popular draw for runners/bikers, so that is my number one priority. I hope that all potential outcomes would involve, at the very least, keeping the pedestrian walkway.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 20 Jul 2018 18:08
by DPatel304
Dallas cheaped out and now has to spend millions more repairing Calatrava's second bridge
Huitt-Zollars' vice president Charles Quade told the city that depending on the fix, repairs should take between eight and 15 months. And it could cost — again, an estimate here, because the contractor hasn't been consulted — between $2 million and $6 million.

"We must keep in mind that doing nothing is always an option," Lee Kleinman, chair of the council's Mobility Solutions, Infrastructure & Sustainability Committee, told me Thursday. He wants city staff to come to his committee next month and explain what the hell's going on.

"Why spend any more money on it," Kleinman said, "when there are so many more needs in the city?"

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/comm ... ond-bridge

I hate that 'leave it as is' is an option here, I really hope they are not seriously considering this. I get there are so many more needs in the city, but, if that's the case, why build the bridge in the first place? Frustrating.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 20 Jul 2018 18:46
by Tnexster
The city of Dallas at its finest.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 20 Jul 2018 22:12
by Tivo_Kenevil
kleinman is just being an ass; as always.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 24 Jul 2018 08:30
by casperitl
The incredible part of it all is that WE allow it to continue. WE meaning you reading this. Time to put a stop to it. Dallas can't afford more of this.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 24 Jul 2018 08:40
by exelone31
casperitl wrote:The incredible part of it all is that WE allow it to continue. WE meaning you reading this. Time to put a stop to it. Dallas can't afford more of this.


What are the avenues to put a stop to this? What is your suggested outcome?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 24 Jul 2018 11:00
by casperitl
exelone31 wrote:
casperitl wrote:The incredible part of it all is that WE allow it to continue. WE meaning you reading this. Time to put a stop to it. Dallas can't afford more of this.


What are the avenues to put a stop to this? What is your suggested outcome?


Those responsible for prior mistakes can never be allowed to work on future projects. The same handful of people are at the root cause of every blunder involving bridges, whitewater features, tree cutting, borrow pit excavation and desecration of cemeteries. The same people. It is too expensive for the taxpayer to allow them to continue.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Oct 2018 20:53
by Tnexster
Like sands through the hour glass so are the days of our lives.....days and months go by and nothing.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 26 Feb 2019 00:55
by DPatel304
When NBC 5 last reported on problems with the Hike and Bike bridge in January 2018, city officials hoped the problems could be solved within months.

A year later, an email from the City of Dallas Wednesday said the city is still waiting for information from the State of Texas about the cost of necessary work on the cables. The email said the cost could be as high as $10 million and up to 36 months of work could be required.

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/More- ... 60761.html

I've basically written off this project and just assume that it will never open. I guess with my expectations set so low, there's no way I can be disappointed.

What a cluster this has been though, it's a damn shame.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 26 Feb 2019 11:44
by homeworld1031tx
This is pretty insane. So we essentially just paid for what is now a giant sculpture at a cost for something that is designed to structural characteristics.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 26 Feb 2019 15:52
by Cbdallas
I never thought it would get built in the first place my guess is that with State involved will delay but it will get done eventually. Visually it certainly is better than nothing at least while we wait for a fix.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 27 Feb 2019 09:13
by The_Overdog
I still don't get why it can't be opened. Under what case study is a few walkers or joggers going to be in more danger than the tons of cars already passing by?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 27 Feb 2019 10:01
by Tivo_Kenevil
The_Overdog wrote:I still don't get why it can't be opened. Under what case study is a few walkers or joggers going to be in more danger than the tons of cars already passing by?


Well for a couple reasons..

1) The Highway isn't supported by the cables. Only the pedestrian portion.

2) the cables have failed stress testing; therefore they are deemed unsafe for use.

3) The Engineers won't clear it because if it does go to hell they'll be in so much legal trouble. They'll probably lose their licenses and jobs!

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 27 Feb 2019 12:06
by The_Overdog
1) The Highway isn't supported by the cables. Only the pedestrian portion.

2) the cables have failed stress testing; therefore they are deemed unsafe for use.


I get that, but the cables are huge and they are adjacent to the roadway (I don't drive that bridge often) but I'm pretty sure if one of those cables fell or broke loose and swung it would hit the road and cars.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 27 Feb 2019 12:28
by muncien
Totally... The bridges structural integrity is what it is, regardless of the presence of some people walking on it or not. If it's truly at risk of failing, the risk is to much more than just those few potential people walking on it. In fact, just due to the traffic volume of this bridge, the threat is much greater to the vehicles than it is to the walkers.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 01 Mar 2019 16:39
by cowboyeagle05
Except that cars are much more protected from flying cables than pedestrians and bike riders.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 02 Mar 2019 11:11
by Tnexster
I keep waiting for them to decide that the flying cables issue is enough of an issue to go ahead and close the frontage roads too. Honestly, why can't they fix this?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 02 Mar 2019 11:54
by DPatel304
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Except that cars are much more protected from flying cables than pedestrians and bike riders.


More protected, sure, but not impervious. I would think that if the cars were at risk at all (even if only a little bit), then that portion would have been shut down as well, no?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 05 Mar 2019 00:09
by joshua.dodd
They should have never built these arches in the first place. They look awkward and out of place. They perfectly epitomize vanity and waste. Now, if the freeway bridge had been built as one structure supported by said arches, then the arches would be fine.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 09 Mar 2019 21:33
by Dallascaper
So, Dallas paid roughly $51,111 per linear foot of paved bike path, which is currently non-functional. Wow. Calculations based on the $115M cost of the arches divided by roughly 2250 feet of the path (1125 each direction).

Dallas must own the dubious record for most expensive bike path ever built. Good job!

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Apr 2019 13:17
by DPatel304
It’ll Be Another Three Years and $7 Million Before We Can Walk the Margaret McDermott Bridge
Last Friday, Assistant City Manager Majed Al-Ghafry sent the council a memo detailing their options. TxDOT offered two: one will cost $7.09 million and “involves fabricating and testing new lower cable anchorage assemblies, replacing all existing cables, and installing additional cable dampers.” The other is a more localized option, retrofitting instead of replacing the assembly with a new lower socket and a larger anchor rod. But the state couldn’t price that one “due to a level of uncertainty of fabrication engineering and non-standard components.” So replacement it is.

It will take 34 months for this to be completed from the date the City Council gives its OK. Al-Ghafry says he plans to have this before the Council for a vote during next week’s meeting. So we’re looking at a total of $122 million and nearly seven years before residents can hypothetically walk across this bridge, which is structurally separate from the stretch of Interstate 30 that it borders. That roadway is an overpass; the pedestrian bridge is accented with Santiago Calatrava-designed arches that are anchored by those cables. Which means it wasn’t necessary in the first place if you were only looking to give walkers and bikers a place to walk and bike.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... tt-bridge/

Whelp, at least there is a plan in place. I know not too long ago, one article mentioned just leaving it broken and never fixing it. While that would be the cheapest option, I'd seriously hate to see that happen. This isn't really that much better, but hopefully when this is all said and done, we'll have a nice loop for people to bike around the Trinity River.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Apr 2019 13:53
by Tivo_Kenevil
Better than broke I guess..could've been done right the first time though.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 03 Apr 2019 21:43
by Tnexster
34 month to completion so maybe at least one will be done in half that time making it possible to at least have one side operational.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 09 Apr 2019 16:35
by quixomniac
DPatel304 wrote:
[b]
Whelp, at least there is a plan in place. I know not too long ago, one article mentioned just leaving it broken and never fixing it. While that would be the cheapest option, I'd seriously hate to see that happen. This isn't really that much better, but hopefully when this is all said and done, we'll have a nice loop for people to bike around the Trinity River.


What percentage of that loop is already complete? I know you can run along the oak cliff side of the levee and cross the river on the continental bridge, but what about the rest?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 09 Apr 2019 18:12
by Hannibal Lecter
DPatel304 wrote:Whelp, at least there is a plan in place. I know not too long ago, one article mentioned just leaving it broken and never fixing it. While that would be the cheapest option, I'd seriously hate to see that happen. This isn't really that much better, but hopefully when this is all said and done, we'll have a nice loop for people to bike around the Trinity River.


Apparently that would be the most expensive option. From https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... ott-bridge

"A series of eight different federal bills relating to the Interstate 30 bridge funded the features. If the features are rendered permanently useless, Standifer said, the feds would ask the state to refund more than $91 million, and TxDOT would demand it back from City Hall, which cut corners to keep escalating costs down."

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 10 Apr 2019 06:47
by Jbarn
I’m sorry, but everybody involved with this debacle should no longer be employed.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 10 Apr 2019 10:17
by cowboyeagle05
Anyone involved with this bridge and the Trinity River project in general.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 10 Apr 2019 12:37
by tamtagon
Jbarn wrote:I’m sorry, but everybody involved with this debacle should no longer be employed.


Word

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 10 Apr 2019 21:33
by f4shionablecha0s
Well, this is Mike Ablon’s baby. Tell your friends to vote for Scott Griggs if you want the boondoggles to end.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 10 Apr 2019 22:20
by Hannibal Lecter
^ LOL. Griggs is just another politician with his own set of boondoggles. How many tens of millions of dollars did the city waste on his stupid streetcar? The thing is so useless they can't even charge a dollar to ride it, because it would be too embarrassing to see it totally empty instead of just mostly empty.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 07:56
by casperitl
Dallas City Council votes to send bill of $7.1 million to Trinity Park Conservancy for bridge repair

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... group-fund

Does the Trinity Park Conservancy pay the bill and own the engineering issues or do they not pay the bill and cast themselves in poor light. Tough position for them to be in. No win situation it seems.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 09:21
by Jbarn
casperitl wrote:Dallas City Council votes to send bill of $7.1 million to Trinity Park Conservancy for bridge repair

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... group-fund

Does the Trinity Park Conservancy pay the bill and own the engineering issues or do they not pay the bill and cast themselves in poor light. Tough position for them to be in. No win situation it seems.


Dallas has got to be one of the most poorly run big cities in this country. Why don’t we hear about these boondoggles happening in Fort Worth time after time like we do in Dallas? Do other cities have audit procedures, oversight, and accountability that we seem to lacking in this city? And if so, why don’t we have that? Which department will be audited next and determined to have waisted or lost millions of taxpayer money? This city can be a very frustrating place to live.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 10:12
by Cbdallas
Fort Worth has a huge boondoggle called Panther Island. I am just our bridge is getting fixed and will open. At least Dallas is trying to do big things unlike other cities. I remember living here in the 1990's when nothing happened downtown was dead and uptown was empty derelict land and we had no rail system. I almost left but I am glad I didn't and I get to enjoy Dallas finally becoming a real urban city and in the 4th largest metro on its way to number 3 in the country. Take a deep breath and recognize how far this city has come in the last 20 years versus other large cities. These are just growing pains for a greater future.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 10:35
by tamtagon
If you think Dallas is bad, look at Atlanta.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 10:41
by Jbarn
tamtagon wrote:If you think Dallas is bad, look at Atlanta.


We could do better though, and it seems like we keep making the same costly mistakes over and over again due to the city not having proper audit controls in place. There is a great lack of accountability in this city.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 11:41
by Tivo_Kenevil
Jbarn wrote:
casperitl wrote:Dallas City Council votes to send bill of $7.1 million to Trinity Park Conservancy for bridge repair

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/dallas- ... group-fund

Does the Trinity Park Conservancy pay the bill and own the engineering issues or do they not pay the bill and cast themselves in poor light. Tough position for them to be in. No win situation it seems.


Dallas has got to be one of the most poorly run big cities in this country. Why don’t we hear about these boondoggles happening in Fort Worth time after time like we do in Dallas? Do other cities have audit procedures, oversight, and accountability that we seem to lacking in this city? And if so, why don’t we have that? Which department will be audited next and determined to have waisted or lost millions of taxpayer money? This city can be a very frustrating place to live.


The sad thing is it's the political Park City Oligarchies that are behind this nonsense, people who aren't even in Dallas Proper!

At this point, I think we'll have to wait for them to die out so the city finally can be start running things without funding private horse barn projects and golf courses

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 12:04
by tamtagon
Jbarn wrote:
tamtagon wrote:If you think Dallas is bad, look at Atlanta.


We could do better though, and it seems like we keep making the same costly mistakes over and over again due to the city not having proper audit controls in place. There is a great lack of accountability in this city.


word

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 13:22
by Hannibal Lecter
I suspect that few of you here are old enough to remember when Time Magazine ran the cover story "Dallas: The City That Works". In the 1980s we were the city that everyone else envied. Then one thing happened: 14-1.

Before 14-1 we had a city council that represented the entire city, not their little fiefdom. Just as importantly, they respected the city charter and let the city manager run the day-to-day show.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 14:40
by Cbdallas
Also we have a Mayor over those 14 fifedoms that is basically a glorified diplomat with no real power to push things and corral the city behind them to get things done. It is actually amazing to me how well things have gone the last 20 years under this overall system I guess we should feel good about that.

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 11 Apr 2019 15:12
by homeworld1031tx
Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ LOL. Griggs is just another politician with his own set of boondoggles. How many tens of millions of dollars did the city waste on his stupid streetcar? The thing is so useless they can't even charge a dollar to ride it, because it would be too embarrassing to see it totally empty instead of just mostly empty.



Ughhhh this election is so complicated. I don't know who to vote for :cry: I wanted to say Griggs is my guy but I don't know if I can even trust him...

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 13 Apr 2019 09:29
by Tnexster
Hannibal Lecter wrote:I suspect that few of you here are old enough to remember when Time Magazine ran the cover story "Dallas: The City That Works". In the 1980s we were the city that everyone else envied. Then one thing happened: 14-1.

Before 14-1 we had a city council that represented the entire city, not their little fiefdom. Just as importantly, they respected the city charter and let the city manager run the day-to-day show.


I've tried to find that article before without any luck. They should come back and write a follow up. "Dallas: The City That Used to Work".

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 13 Apr 2019 19:49
by Hannibal Lecter
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/a ... 18,00.html

A City That Still Works

When it comes to smooth efficiency, neither Rome under Mussolini nor Richard Daley's Chicago could outshine modern day Dallas. Potholes are filled within three days; a clogged sewer is usually cleared within 40 minutes; streets, sidewalks, bridges and water and sanitation systems are kept in superb condition. Indeed, the Urban Institute in Washington proclaims that Dallas' management of its public facilities could stand as a model for large cities all over the U.S.

While many other towns and cities are slowly crumbling, Dallas has established its reputation as a city that works. The reasons include a favorable climate,...

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 13 Apr 2019 21:54
by quixomniac
Hannibal Lecter wrote:http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,924718,00.html

A City That Still Works

When it comes to smooth efficiency, neither Rome under Mussolini nor Richard Daley's Chicago could outshine modern day Dallas. Potholes are filled within three days; a clogged sewer is usually cleared within 40 minutes; streets, sidewalks, bridges and water and sanitation systems are kept in superb condition. Indeed, the Urban Institute in Washington proclaims that Dallas' management of its public facilities could stand as a model for large cities all over the U.S.

While many other towns and cities are slowly crumbling, Dallas has established its reputation as a city that works. The reasons include a favorable climate,...


Wow thanks!. it's always great when people of older generations can give us youngin's insights.
why did we ever go to 14-1 then?

Re: Margaret McDermott Bridge by Santiago Calatrava

Posted: 13 Apr 2019 23:15
by Hannibal Lecter
At-large seats are considered to be inherently discriminatory.

So the city went to 10-4-1 (10 single member districts, 4 super districts superimposed of the 10, and only the mayor at large. Courts struck that down as still not good enough and imposed 14-1.