Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

I-345

User avatar
dallaz
Posts: 332
Joined: 26 Oct 2016 14:50

Re: I-345

Postby dallaz » 21 Mar 2019 13:40

Growing movement to remove elevated interstate in downtown Dallas


http://www.fox4news.com/news/growing-mo ... own-dallas

User avatar
Tucy
Posts: 520
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 12:50

Re: I-345

Postby Tucy » 21 Mar 2019 14:25

dallaz wrote:Growing movement to remove elevated interstate in downtown Dallas


http://www.fox4news.com/news/growing-mo ... own-dallas


It is (theoretically) possible that a good case can be made that Dallas would be better off without I-345, but that case cannot be made by dishonest comparisons such as, for example, claiming that the Park East Freeway in Milwaukee was similar to Dallas' I-345 (as they did in the linked article). The only thing they had in common was that they were (are) both elevated structures.

The Park East carried only 54,000 or fewer cars per day and was just a spur less than a mile long (essentially a long exit/entrance ramp). It's only purpose was to carry traffic into and out of downtown Milwaukee. It made a great deal of sense to replace it with a boulevard. That volume of traffic (all local) could be handled as well, perhaps even better, by a boulevard and grid.

I-345, in contrast, carries 200,000+ cars per day, and is a through-freeway.

User avatar
Hannibal Lecter
Posts: 389
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 19:57

Re: I-345

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 21 Mar 2019 18:30

^ Bingo. It was just like the Embarcadero: a glorified exit ramp. Also not mentioned is that Milwaukee has barely a half million people -- and decreasing.

DPatel304
Posts: 1410
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:49
Location: Turtle Creek

Re: I-345

Postby DPatel304 » 21 Mar 2019 22:50

As much as I hate highways cutting through our Downtown, it's hard for me to make an argument to tear down I-345. The benefit of tearing down the highway is you connect Downtown and Deep Ellum and also free up land that we can develop on, but, as of today, we still have a ton of empty land in the CBD that can be re-developed without tearing down any highways.

If demand to build in Downtown was extremely high and we were running out of space, I'd be more inclined to tear down the highway, but I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

My stance is that we should keep the highway for the forseeable future, perhaps we can re-design it so it's less of an obstruction, and then, once the city has matured a bit more and self driving cars are more mainstream, we can revisit this issue.

User avatar
jetnd87
Posts: 48
Joined: 08 Jan 2019 16:00

Re: I-345

Postby jetnd87 » 22 Mar 2019 09:41

The study that TX-DOT commissioned said that average drive times would only be increased by 3-5 minutes. You're not removing pathways but tearing down the highway. A working plan would be to replace it with two sizable, street-level boulevards. Plus you have the other streets (i.e. the grid) that can handle quite a bit of capacity.

You have to start somewhere. We have to make greater downtown more cohesive and desirable for businesses and residents to locate en masse. Then hopefully you can have a decent chunk of these jobs land in the core vs. the far flung suburbs, reducing drive times and limiting or (at times) eradicating the need for a car which often takes up half of lower wage worker's salaries. What we have now is an abomination. Highways were never meant to cut through a city, even Eisenhower said as much. 3-5 minutes extra drive time for a big step in a more sustainable direction - not to mention billions of economic value unlocked (see same TX-DOT study) - seems a pretty fair trade.
Last edited by jetnd87 on 22 Mar 2019 10:41, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
muncien
Posts: 866
Joined: 25 Oct 2016 08:46
Location: Cypress Waters

Re: I-345

Postby muncien » 22 Mar 2019 10:25

Can we start with those that are truly impassable first, such as I35 (trench and cover?) and I 30 (narrow & cover)? At least you can walk under I345. Once we take care of the worst offenders, maybe then we should move on to I345 (narrowing can happen sooner though).
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

Tnexster
Posts: 1925
Joined: 22 Oct 2016 16:33
Location: Dallas

Re: I-345

Postby Tnexster » 23 Mar 2019 11:33

DPatel304 wrote:As much as I hate highways cutting through our Downtown, it's hard for me to make an argument to tear down I-345. The benefit of tearing down the highway is you connect Downtown and Deep Ellum and also free up land that we can develop on, but, as of today, we still have a ton of empty land in the CBD that can be re-developed without tearing down any highways.

If demand to build in Downtown was extremely high and we were running out of space, I'd be more inclined to tear down the highway, but I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

My stance is that we should keep the highway for the forseeable future, perhaps we can re-design it so it's less of an obstruction, and then, once the city has matured a bit more and self driving cars are more mainstream, we can revisit this issue.


While I like the concept I don't see it happening, especially since TxDOT seems committed to keeping 345 in place for the time being, and as long as it's there the traffic counts will likely increase making it even more unlikely that they will take it down. Meanwhile high rises are going up all along that stretch. I think we are stuck with it.

User avatar
mcrdal15
Posts: 75
Joined: 27 Mar 2018 16:02

Re: I-345

Postby mcrdal15 » 03 May 2019 15:16

Tnexster wrote:
DPatel304 wrote:As much as I hate highways cutting through our Downtown, it's hard for me to make an argument to tear down I-345. The benefit of tearing down the highway is you connect Downtown and Deep Ellum and also free up land that we can develop on, but, as of today, we still have a ton of empty land in the CBD that can be re-developed without tearing down any highways.

If demand to build in Downtown was extremely high and we were running out of space, I'd be more inclined to tear down the highway, but I think we are getting a little ahead of ourselves.

My stance is that we should keep the highway for the forseeable future, perhaps we can re-design it so it's less of an obstruction, and then, once the city has matured a bit more and self driving cars are more mainstream, we can revisit this issue.


While I like the concept I don't see it happening, especially since TxDOT seems committed to keeping 345 in place for the time being, and as long as it's there the traffic counts will likely increase making it even more unlikely that they will take it down. Meanwhile high rises are going up all along that stretch. I think we are stuck with it.


It's near the end of its life span, so a choice will need be made sooner rather than later (either completely fixing it or removing it). Also, the high rises being built near it are an excellent reason to tear it down. The growth in and around Deep Ellum will bring in a lot of walkable amenities, thus reducing the need for area residents to have to hop in their cars.

User avatar
eburress
Posts: 468
Joined: 19 Oct 2016 18:13

Re: I-345

Postby eburress » 04 Jun 2019 17:55

In case anyone hasn't yet seen this from last week's mayoral debate:

https://youtu.be/vcDbqLLGs3Y


And the corresponding D Magazine article:

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... ust-watch/


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Login