I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

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muncien
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby muncien » 30 Oct 2019 09:28

DPatel304 wrote:Whoa! That's great news! I had planned to attend the presentation last night, but I wasn't feeling too well and decided to skip. I'm very surprised that they seem to have a good plan in place for I-30, I was pretty much expecting the worst.


No kidding! Awesome News. It always seemed the usage of land in the existing ROW was very poor, and that they should be able to fit more lanes into a smaller footprint. Doing so just seemed so un-DOT that it wasn't even worth mentioning. Very glad to see this proposal.
Also, I wouldn't be overly concerned about the gap between the two parks. Yes, ventilation is VERY important now, so it makes sense to save a little there. But twenty years from now, most cars running through there will be emission free, and ventilation can become more manageable, thus allowing parks to be connected. I don't see any reason to spend excessive funds now for a 'temporary' problem. Just make sure the depth is right for it in the future.
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Tucy
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tucy » 30 Oct 2019 10:51

I can't see the whole article (paywall), but before it blacks out I was able to read that the project reduces the highway's footprint. Looking at the documents I can find on line, the only footprint reduction I see is the removal of the Cesar Chavez ramps. Is that what they are referring to? (It doesn't look like 14 acres).

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Hannibal Lecter
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 30 Oct 2019 14:06

Yes, it's a strange place to find it but here's the plan: https://media.nbcnewyork.com/documents/ ... -PM-01.pdf

Interesting tidbit: The exit sign from eastbound 30 will say "North 345 / South 45"

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby itsjrd1964 » 30 Oct 2019 18:28

Tucy wrote:I can't see the whole article (paywall), but before it blacks out I was able to read that the project reduces the highway's footprint. Looking at the documents I can find on line, the only footprint reduction I see is the removal of the Cesar Chavez ramps. Is that what they are referring to? (It doesn't look like 14 acres).


On the schematic that Hannibal links to, all the red parts are lanes and ramps that will go away; the bulk of them are around the Cesar Chavez exit, but other removals include the eastbound ramp/curve to Lamar.

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homeworld1031tx
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby homeworld1031tx » 31 Oct 2019 09:54

The plan does indeed look pretty good. Glad that they're attempting to trench the highway to some degree as well.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby DPatel304 » 31 Oct 2019 14:14

Image
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... 30-canyon/

Overall, I'm super pleased with what I'm seeing. There are certainly things I would still improve on top of this (for example, I'd rather see one big park as opposed to 'three fingers'), but this is a huge step in the right direction, and I really think the Cedars and the southern portion of Downtown will greatly benefit from this.

All of a sudden I think the proposed Smart City development is starting to look a lot more attractive now.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tnexster » 01 Nov 2019 12:33

This is definitely better than what was proposed earlier. Wish they could somehow daylight the creek under there.

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Cord1936
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Cord1936 » 01 Nov 2019 15:59

Another article on the topic ...

Image

TxDOT previews plan to double the size of I-30 in downtown Dallas
By Micah Moore, Dallas CultureMap, Oct 31, 2019, 9:09 am

Article: http://dallas.culturemap.com/news/city-life/10-31-19-txdot-30-widening-six-lanes/?utm_source=Dallas+Magazine&utm_campaign=97d81718dd-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_10_09_09_23_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_d83922037a-97d81718dd-106717359

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby DPatel304 » 08 Nov 2019 15:45

Image

"Written comments from the public are requested and will be accepted for a period of 15 calendar days following the meeting. Written comments may be submitted either in person at the public meeting; by mail to the TxDOT Dallas District Office, ATTN: Ms. Ashton Strong, P.E., TxDOT Project Manager, 4777 E. Highway 80, Mesquite, Texas 75150-6643, or via email to Ashton.Strong@txdot.gov. Written comments must be postmarked by Wednesday, November 13, 2019 to be included in the public meeting documentation."


Please send in your thoughts before Nov 13th, 2019.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 08 Nov 2019 18:00

I feel like this design leaves a lot to be desired.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 09 Nov 2019 20:21

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:I feel like this design leaves a lot to be desired.


Anything specific?
Ideally the part next to Dallas Heritage Village should be all one piece.
Seperating into 3 pieces makes no sense, given there are no streets or ramps cutting it up.
Might as well cover it all up at once.

But I figure this can't be Klyde Warren given there is not much funding for it.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby DPatel304 » 09 Nov 2019 23:57

These plans incorporate up to over 14 acres of surplus land, and the city’s draft plans include two deck parks -- a swath between Griffin and Akard and Canton and Cadiz streets, and three fingers of land between Harwood and St. Paul just north of the Dallas Heritage Village. The city proposed the second deck park to be divided for natural ventilation to reduce costs.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2019/10 ... 30-canyon/

Just FYI, they do have their reasons for splitting the eastern deck park into three pieces. It sounds like it's mostly due to cutting costs, but I really do hope they reconsider this.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 10 Nov 2019 17:45

DPatel304 wrote:
These plans incorporate up to over 14 acres of surplus land, and the city’s draft plans include two deck parks -- a swath between Griffin and Akard and Canton and Cadiz streets, and three fingers of land between Harwood and St. Paul just north of the Dallas Heritage Village. The city proposed the second deck park to be divided for natural ventilation to reduce costs.

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2019/10 ... 30-canyon/

Just FYI, they do have their reasons for splitting the eastern deck park into three pieces. It sounds like it's mostly due to cutting costs, but I really do hope they reconsider this.


Thanks for the info, I suppose it pays to read more carefully. :D
Klyde Warren is about 3-4 blocks, and this looks like 2-3 blocks.
I suppose the exhaust fans at Klyde Warren cost lots of money?

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby lakewoodhobo » 10 Dec 2019 14:52

The way the eastern (Heritage Village) deck park is proposed doesn't show a lot of promise for having a KWP-style effect on the area. However, the deck adjacent to S Harwood should be prioritized if they need to be phased out.

This would pull Old City Park into the Farmers Market and away from the Bridge, especially if the city buys some of the surplus land from TxDot like the D Magazine article suggests, expanding that small deck park further north and maybe even connecting with the Futsal sports park.

Cedars deck park.jpg
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quixomniac
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 10 Dec 2019 18:28

lakewoodhobo wrote:The way the eastern (Heritage Village) deck park is proposed doesn't show a lot of promise for having a KWP-style effect on the area. However, the deck adjacent to S Harwood should be prioritized if they need to be phased out.

This would pull Old City Park into the Farmers Market and away from the Bridge, especially if the city buys some of the surplus land from TxDot like the D Magazine article suggests, expanding that small deck park further north and maybe even connecting with the Futsal sports park.

Cedars deck park.jpg


I think that's reasonable, but I can see the counter argument that it is more expensive to build out in phases if you have to close down parts of the highway as you build deck parks over the years.

I wish the farmers market was more engaged with Old City Park for sure.
Organic food and doing things the way they used to is all the rage.
I can definitely see Old City Park opening urban farms and showing people how to farm and grow crops.
You could even expand on that and add an old school brewery, and hand made soaps, clothes etc.
Self sufficiency is something that Old City Park can definitely sell.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby exelone31 » 11 Dec 2019 09:06

Does anyone happen to know what the plans are for the old Ambassador site? I can imagine a deck park would have quite an effect on what is planned there, possibly high-ish rise residential?

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 08 Jun 2021 20:19

Y'all make sure to comment and provide feedback. June 8th to June 23rd.
Gets rid of weird ramps near fair park and adds a trench. The rest is a mix of elevated, street level, and trench.
Virtual Public Meeting for I-30 East Corridor Project in Dallas County
The proposed improvements to I-30 between I-345/I-45 and Ferguson Road would include ten general purpose lanes (five in each direction), two reversible managed lanes, discontinuous two to three lane frontage roads in each direction, and reconstruction of ramps and bridges. The proposed I-30 main lanes and managed lanes would be depressed from I-345/I-45 to Dolphin Road. Accommodations for bicycle and pedestrian travel along the project corridor are a component of project development.

http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/I30EC
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby undefinedprocess » 09 Jun 2021 09:18

quixomniac wrote:Y'all make sure to comment and provide feedback. June 8th to June 23rd.
Gets rid of weird ramps near fair park and adds a trench. The rest is a mix of elevated, street level, and trench.
Virtual Public Meeting for I-30 East Corridor Project in Dallas County
The proposed improvements to I-30 between I-345/I-45 and Ferguson Road would include ten general purpose lanes (five in each direction), two reversible managed lanes, discontinuous two to three lane frontage roads in each direction, and reconstruction of ramps and bridges. The proposed I-30 main lanes and managed lanes would be depressed from I-345/I-45 to Dolphin Road. Accommodations for bicycle and pedestrian travel along the project corridor are a component of project development.

http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/I30EC
Screen Shot 2021-06-08 at 8.12.24 PM.png
Screen Shot 2021-06-08 at 8.13.06 PM.png
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What comments/feedback should we give? :D
Not the most familiar with this proposal and would love to be another commenter/voice pushing the "right" things, so if y'all have any insight into what the best changes would be for the area, please let me know.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 11 Jun 2021 13:04

undefinedprocess wrote:What comments/feedback should we give? :D
Not the most familiar with this proposal and would love to be another commenter/voice pushing the "right" things, so if y'all have any insight into what the best changes would be for the area, please let me know.

I appreciate the enthusiasm, but it's not for me to say what is the "right" thing.
Forum opinions have varied widely throughout the evolution of this project.
Ranging from early move I30 all together out of east/south Dallas to increase highway capacity, add more lanes with a parallel goal of stitching back together the communities that were torn apart when the highway was built. Some see these elements as incompatible, I do not.

During the last evaluation, the city council pushed back on proposed highway expansion and demanded that new construction be limited to existing ROW (right of way) and adherence to CityMAP principles. and in that regard, I think they have mostly succeeded, they managed to increase capacity by trenching the highway and more efficiently using the existing dead space within the ROW. It's why im very much for trenching all the highways near downtown, including I345.

Trenching allows overhanging of the service roads/ramps and Trenching allows for more bridges and deck parks to restitch the communities. TxDOT will slightly increase the ROW in certain places, but overall the new design actually frees up adjacent properties for potential development. At this point I feel the feedback is more about specific ramps/intersections, maybe the addition of sound barriers, etc. But it goes to show that the earlier feedback really made a difference and participation matters alot!

This article provides a good summary, doesnt seem biased...this time :)
https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... r/?ref=mpw

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 11 Jun 2021 20:02

The key thing is it's going to from about 190 FT wide to almost 500 ft. That's disgusting..

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 12 Jun 2021 15:02

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:The key thing is it's going to from about 190 FT wide to almost 500 ft. That's disgusting..

Are we reading the same thing? The article states:
The current highway ranges from 195 feet to 483 feet wide; the plans would take that between 308 feet and 505 feet.


One would understand that to say, the min highway ranges goes from 195 to 308, and the max goes from 483 to 505 ft. Not 195 to 505. Can you point to where on the map it goes from 195 to 505 feet? What part you feel is so offensive ?
http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0009-11-252%20I-30%20EC%20PM%20Roll%20Plot_Preliminary%20Conceptual%20Design%20Exhibit.pdf

If you look at the existing highway schematics, you’d see they managed to expand the highway by using the dead space between on ramps and the highway lanes more efficiently. No residential properties lose anything. http://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/sites/default/files/docs/0009-11-252%20I-30%20EC%20PM%20Roll%20Plot_Existing%20Condition%20Exhibit.pdf

IMO, the reason it goes from 195 to 300 ft, is probably in the area surrounding chestnut to exposition/fair park. Which mainly affects the police parking lot, the rail yard, and some abandoned lots. Which i would gladly trade for the land freed up by those ridiculous curved on/off ramps and clearing up the cluster F that creates leading to a more structured street grid.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby electricron » 12 Jun 2021 15:28

Whereas I understand why some would prefer minimizing the width of the interstate highway to make room for more or save more land for neighborhoods, TXDOT needs at the same time as much room as necessary for the safest highway possible.
Balancing one over the other should not be in political debate. TXDOT should take as much land as possible for safety, but not one square foot more, imho.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 12 Jun 2021 17:01

electricron wrote:Whereas I understand why some would prefer minimizing the width of the interstate highway to make room for more or save more land for neighborhoods, TXDOT needs at the same time as much room as necessary for the safest highway possible.
Balancing one over the other should not be in political debate. TXDOT should take as much land as possible for safety, but not one square foot more, imho.

That’s a fair point, buried under the weight of all this, is safety. I feel that I-30 is remarkably curvy or meandering for the speeds most cars drive at today. That might have been fine 50 years ago when cars were slower, but definitely not today. The curves/meander I’m talking about are near Ferguson and Fair Park. And that is one of main aims of the redesign, to smooth out the meanders. Which is probably why they widened it (circled in pink) by increase the width inside the curve. Which is better than the alternative, buy the adjacent land to move the highway, which certainly wouldn’t fly in deep ellum/fair park. I marked this in red on this map.

The I30 presentation leave a lot to be desired in terms of communication. So i made this by overlaying the existing highway plan over the proposed. You can do this by opening both in separate tabs, zooming at the same magnification, and simply flipping between the two. I overlayed the screenshots Then I just used my iPad to delete anything outside the current highway width to see below the proposed expansion. This helps illustrate how widening inside the curve helps with meandering and how it affects the surrounding properties which is circled in green
53BA80B5-B550-47A0-BC2B-4A86E79DABBF.jpeg

Also given the highway’s current width, there is no room whatsoever for a left shoulder on the highway! Mostly because of the HOV lane. Which makes for an incredibly dangerous situation if something happens to your car on any lane other than the right hand lane.
35673BCC-3C39-4A8A-B180-78BCFA02EC10.jpeg

88BFD317-F751-493A-8C85-38B8E63EC12A.jpeg

2DEC8F48-882D-408E-B3F7-B68F1FACA246.jpeg


That’s also something I hope they do in Oak Cliff on I30 and I35E. Straighten out the meanders and add room for a proper left hand shoulder for flat tires, etc.
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 12 Jun 2021 18:34

quixomniac wrote:No residential properties lose anything.

I rescind my earlier statement, the exercise of dialogue has been helpful.
Upon closer inspection, around 5 houses will be torn down because of what looks like an unnnecessary ramp to me at Dawson/Jeffries area.
A436F8E1-5E6D-4154-BDD4-B0C6505AE4BA.png

And also 3 houses torn down b.c of an ridiculously large roundabout at munger.
Idk what it is with traffic engineers slapping roundabouts like Texans know how to use them. Technically it’s a messy intersection, but perhaps there are better ways to do it.
0CFC321C-DB18-45BB-B273-0414584E8CDD.png
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 16 Jun 2021 17:24

Believe me I think we need more roundabouts in Texas more people just need experience using them for them to be less of a shock. These traffic circles just seems like trying too hard to make highways hip and part of the new urbanist trend without actually doing so. Look kids i'm on a skateboard i'm a cool dude. Okurrrrr!
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby kozzy » 16 Jul 2021 10:39

quixomniac wrote:
electricron wrote:Whereas I understand why some would prefer minimizing the width of the interstate highway to make room for more or save more land for neighborhoods, TXDOT needs at the same time as much room as necessary for the safest highway possible.
Balancing one over the other should not be in political debate. TXDOT should take as much land as possible for safety, but not one square foot more, imho.

That’s a fair point, buried under the weight of all this, is safety. I feel that I-30 is remarkably curvy or meandering for the speeds most cars drive at today. That might have been fine 50 years ago when cars were slower, but definitely not today. The curves/meander I’m talking about are near Ferguson and Fair Park. And that is one of main aims of the redesign, to smooth out the meanders. Which is probably why they widened it (circled in pink) by increase the width inside the curve. Which is better than the alternative, buy the adjacent land to move the highway, which certainly wouldn’t fly in deep ellum/fair park. I marked this in red on this map.

The I30 presentation leave a lot to be desired in terms of communication. So i made this by overlaying the existing highway plan over the proposed. You can do this by opening both in separate tabs, zooming at the same magnification, and simply flipping between the two. I overlayed the screenshots Then I just used my iPad to delete anything outside the current highway width to see below the proposed expansion. This helps illustrate how widening inside the curve helps with meandering and how it affects the surrounding properties which is circled in green
53BA80B5-B550-47A0-BC2B-4A86E79DABBF.jpeg
Also given the highway’s current width, there is no room whatsoever for a left shoulder on the highway! Mostly because of the HOV lane. Which makes for an incredibly dangerous situation if something happens to your car on any lane other than the right hand lane.
35673BCC-3C39-4A8A-B180-78BCFA02EC10.jpeg
88BFD317-F751-493A-8C85-38B8E63EC12A.jpeg
2DEC8F48-882D-408E-B3F7-B68F1FACA246.jpeg

That’s also something I hope they do in Oak Cliff on I30 and I35E. Straighten out the meanders and add room for a proper left hand shoulder for flat tires, etc.



First of all, these are great renderings. You did a really good job illustrating, because visual learning is certainly the best way for me. I can’t remember where I read about this, although it’s quite possible it was inside this forum. One of the reasons for the Ferguson Curve was winding around the White Rock bluffs, and at the time they had little room to work with. Since Samuell was the predecessor to 30 as US 80 at the time, there were a few motor court motels around that area on the side where Lawnview comes out. Now those quickly became “by-the-hour” motels in the 80’s and were eventually torn down. I believe with the space that has been cleared they should have no problem smoothing those curves out a little bit. I don’t know threasoning for the Fair Park curve because I’m not aware of what the layout was at the time of construction. I’m not sure if it would be as easy to smooth out 35E as there is quite a more property surrounding it. I do believe the deck park in front of the zoo will help the surrounding aesthetic in the adjacent area.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby itsjrd1964 » 17 Jul 2021 11:09

quixomniac wrote:
quixomniac wrote:No residential properties lose anything.

I rescind my earlier statement, the exercise of dialogue has been helpful.
Upon closer inspection, around 5 houses will be torn down because of what looks like an unnnecessary ramp to me at Dawson/Jeffries area.
A436F8E1-5E6D-4154-BDD4-B0C6505AE4BA.png


I hope that's an elevated ramp of some kind, otherwise CitySquare will lose at least 1/2 its parking area.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby tamtagon » 18 Jul 2021 21:52

The next decade is going to be very interesting in Oak Cliff. Preservation versus gentrification, how tall is too tall, displaced poor people, helicopter nimbys.... It's a 50 year rebuilding cycle that'll allow downtown to become what it should be.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby quixomniac » 20 Jul 2021 01:10

kozzy wrote:First of all, these are great renderings. You did a really good job illustrating, because visual learning is certainly the best way for me. I can’t remember where I read about this, although it’s quite possible it was inside this forum. One of the reasons for the Ferguson Curve was winding around the White Rock bluffs, and at the time they had little room to work with. Since Samuell was the predecessor to 30 as US 80 at the time, there were a few motor court motels around that area on the side where Lawnview comes out. Now those quickly became “by-the-hour” motels in the 80’s and were eventually torn down. I believe with the space that has been cleared they should have no problem smoothing those curves out a little bit. I don’t know threasoning for the Fair Park curve because I’m not aware of what the layout was at the time of construction. I’m not sure if it would be as easy to smooth out 35E as there is quite a more property surrounding it. I do believe the deck park in front of the zoo will help the surrounding aesthetic in the adjacent area.

Thanks 8-) I thought TxDOT’s presentation/diagrams left a lot to be desired in terms of communication so i made them to help myself. Glad it helped someone else as well.
Also thanks for the history blurb, I can definitely see it. I remember the old lawnview off ramp and motel that used to be there, and now makes sense in context.

itsjrd1964 wrote:I hope that's an elevated ramp of some kind, otherwise CitySquare will lose at least 1/2 its parking area.

I had no idea what was there nor what CitySquare is! It looked like an industrial warehouse of some sort from the satellite, so glad someone brought this to my attention. For context, CitySquare provides homeless services and housing in the near by cottages at hickory crossing. Here is a link on City Square
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/curious ... estigates/

I’m afraid it will be a surface level frontage road, not just a ramp, so they will definitely lose part of the parking lot. Since i didnt know about it, i didnt mention it in the survey, it would be good if someone advocated for them there.
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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby longhorn » 06 May 2022 14:10

345 apparently is going to be depressed per another website.

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Re: I-30 South & East Dallas reconstruction

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 09 May 2022 16:33

^ Source?