MATA: M-Line Trolley

[ArtVandelay]

Has there been a reduction in service? They used to run 3 cars during rush hours and lunch but the lately I only see 2 on their live map.

[dukemeredith]

I have also noticed this. From what I understand, ridership continues to increase -- it was up 38% in 2015 from 2014!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... I4HznWVEBw

And according to the MATA website, the M Line is the third largest streetcar in the US, in terms of ridership - after #1 New Orleans and #2 San Francisco.

[theoryNine]

They're actually working on a 4th car to get it in service at the moment. I think they've been having technical difficulties with one of the existing cars, leading to 2-car service.

[dukemeredith]

I checked the tracker yesterday at around 5:00, and they were running three — I was pleasantly surprised!

I also thought they had a larger rotation of cars than only three or four.

[northsouth]

They've had up to five, maybe six cars operational at once before, but since then they've been taking one or two cars out of service for major maintenance and letting the others fill in, so back to about four operational cars, like it was originally. Of course, this doesn't account for unscheduled maintenance when something breaks.

[Jbarn]

They definitely need to start running more cars on weekends. There are lines of folks waiting at klyde warren park and most cars are full.

[ContriveDallasite]

I don't mean to cause any offense but what is keeping DART from purchasing the line and running modern street cars? This line is obviously a success but it seems it could become a much more viable commuter option with larger trains and a more frequent schedule.

Or would the introduction of fares kill the line off completely? Just curious?

[art_suckz]

Can't wait for car 612. Website says early Spring.

[Benjamin]

I don't mean to cause any offense but what is keeping DART from purchasing the line and running modern street cars? This line is obviously a success but it seems it could become a much more viable commuter option with larger trains and a more frequent schedule.

Or would the introduction of fares kill the line off completely? Just curious?

I'm also curious about this. With ridership levels so high it sure seems live someone is going to decide to monetize that line at some point - whether it be DART or some other entity.

[tamtagon]

I don't remember if the route connecting MATA and Oak Cliff streetcars been decided; I think funding has been tentatively lined up....

Even without MATA extended to Knox, a fee probably should be collected to pay the drivers, maybe pay for sheltered stations....

[dukemeredith]

How much would a fee impact ridership? I'd guess one reason it's so popular is because it's free. While a $1 per ride fee likely wouldn't deter many riders, anything more than $2-$3 would start to compete with Uber -- and Uber would win hands-down for speed and convenience.

[muncien]

Before going with an official 'fare', I'd suggest a more persuasive donation first. You could put big 'ol signs saying $1 with small print saying 'suggested donation' and such. I really like the nature of MATA and seeing it go with full business model would be a little depressing. Plus, at that point... there is a higher service level expectation that comes with paying for something.
But I would think most riders would be perfectly fine throwing in a buck here and there... without worrying about having exact change for every trip. Plus, a tap to pay (NFC) donation box would be welcome as well. It's a lot easier to part with a digital $1 than a physical $1. lol

[DPatel304]

I agree with donations rather than a fare, although I really wonder how many people take the time to donate.

I know the two aren't necessarily related, but I'd really hate to see parking remain free in Uptown, while we are having to pay for something like the MATA. Seems like a step backwards that would discourage people from using public transportation.

[Haretip]

ut I would think most riders would be perfectly fine throwing in a buck here and there... without worrying about having exact change for every trip. Plus, a tap to pay (NFC) donation box would be welcome as well. It's a lot easier to part with a digital $1 than a physical $1.

I'll see if I can forward that to management. They already have electronics on the cars for the GPS tracking. Perhaps it wouldn't take much more to accomodate that or at the very least a QR code on the farebox.

They do have farebox on the car with an appeal for donations. I would suggest a larger box because they are frequently stuffed.

[willyk]

Dallas' Uptown neighborhood takes step towards two-way traffic along McKinney, Cole avenues

It also paves the way for a possible expansion of the McKinney Avenue Transit Authority's trolley system in the future by giving the streetcars curbside access, which is a requirement of transit organizations seeking funds from the federal government.

http://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news/2016/11/11/dallas-uptown-neighborhood-takes-step-towards-two.html

[Cbdallas]

I rode the new modern streetcar out of downtown to Bishop Arts a few weeks ago. I was glad to see how smooth and fast it was. Would love to see the MATA line and Bishop Arts line merged into one modern system connecting up to Knox. Would really change the entire urban area.

[DuesyJ29]

MATA's had a bit of a rough go lately with cars and personnel. But they are getting back on their feet. Right now there are two cars down and in the barn. The first is the Australian car 369 for a restoration/rebuild. The second is the Brussels car, 7169. Some electronic parts that were dated to the 80s have worn out and are needing replacement. The original parts are unavailable so MATA is working to find a modern equivalent. Service has increased and will hopefully continue to do so over the next few months.

As to the reason DART has not taken over, there are a number of curves on the line that modern equipment can not handle. That's why its still run with vintage equipment. Not to mention that the cars look cool.

MS

[Tnexster]

I like the old cars, it adds a cool historic feature to Uptown.

[tamtagon]

I would like more of the historic cars, would like even more if they could cover the trip from SMU to Bishop Arts.

[xen0blue]

MATA's had a bit of a rough go lately with cars and personnel. But they are getting back on their feet. Right now there are two cars down and in the barn. The first is the Australian car 369 for a restoration/rebuild. The second is the Brussels car, 7169. Some electronic parts that were dated to the 80s have worn out and are needing replacement. The original parts are unavailable so MATA is working to find a modern equivalent. Service has increased and will hopefully continue to do so over the next few months.

As to the reason DART has not taken over, there are a number of curves on the line that modern equipment can not handle. That's why its still run with vintage equipment. Not to mention that the cars look cool.

MS

Surely it wouldn't be difficult to build/find a modern streetcar that can handle curves. Has technology gone backwards or something?

[Tnexster]

If I had to guess I would guess that the curves are too tight for a newer street car. But I don't get the impression they are interested in catering to a new street car.

[Fitch]

Does anyone have insight into how the street car program on the MATA operates or the history behind the present-day lines? I'm working on a project that's investigating street cars versus light rail and would be interested to hear from those with experience on the MATA.

[Haretip]

]

Surely it wouldn't be difficult to build/find a modern streetcar that can handle curves. Has technology gone backwards or something?

The single body streetcars are seen as insufficient capacity for modern streetcar lines. Nobody is building anything except articulated units and apparently nobody is able to construct that style that can fit on the older streetcar track clearances.

Bombardier had a contract to build new single unit streetcars for Toronto because they still had legacy track with tight curves. I approached them about making a few cars for MATA and they said heck-to-the-no! (but with more of a french accent).

I suppose if there was serious need for a single unit streetcar, Brookville Equipment could do it because they built the new scratch built Von Dullen cars for New Orleans and they are continuously restoring PCC cars for San Francisco. GOMACO might be able to do it too, but they have typically used reconditioned equipment instead of new, although looking at their website the other day I think they started offering modern IGBT controls and probably can get modern trucks.

As with all questions about improvements on MATA, the short answer is always "Yes, they can do that. Just bring money."

[Haretip]

Does anyone have insight into how the street car program on the MATA operates or the history behind the present-day lines? I'm working on a project that's investigating street cars versus light rail and would be interested to hear from those with experience on the MATA.

There are a few people involved with MATA that are contributors here. I am one of the more frequent visitors and have been with the company for 26 years at various levels.

[dfwcre8tive]

From MATA's Facebook page:

Did you know that we've been in the process of restoring a 7th car for our M-Line fleet? We cannot thank Trammell Crow and Radiant Outdoor enough for their funding support in 612's complete rebuild, because without it we wouldn't be able to make this addition to the fleet! We'll keep you posted on her progress and she should be ready for service by July 1st, 2017!

...

612 will be named Margaret, after Margaret Crow, for Trammell Crow's gracious funding support in 612's rebuild.

[Cbdallas]

https://twitter.com/DallasTrolley/statu ... 5344911360

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The @CityOfDallas Council members @PhilipTKingston & @LeeforDallas have signed off on the Knox Extension Feasibility Study for MATA!
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[Haretip]

From MATA's Facebook page:

Did you know that we've been in the process of restoring a 7th car for our M-Line fleet? We cannot thank Trammell Crow and Radiant Outdoor enough for their funding support in 612's complete rebuild, because without it we wouldn't be able to make this addition to the fleet! We'll keep you posted on her progress and she should be ready for service by July 1st, 2017!

...

612 will be named Margaret, after Margaret Crow, for Trammell Crow's gracious funding support in 612's rebuild.

I've been observing the progress on 612 as the car has been stripped down to its bare frame in preparation for repair and restoration. The car has a serious case of cancer (rust) and the cost to restore has to be skyrocketing. I believe there is a good indication that this car will not be able to be fixed.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Hope it gets fixed.

Wasn't MATA goin to roll out a Dallas PCC streetcar?

What happened to that?

[Haretip]

612 is the Dallas PCC car. I don't think it is going to get fixed. If you reread what I posted, you will have the answers to your questions. It has too much rust. When they derusted the car, there wasn't that much car left there.

My comments are my own and I do not speak for or represent MATA.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

612 is the Dallas PCC car. I don't think it is going to get fixed. If you reread what I posted, you will have the answers to your questions. It has too much rust. When they derusted the car, there wasn't that much car left there.

My comments are my own and I do not speak for or represent MATA.

Thx. I didn't know 612 referred to the PCC street car

[Haretip]

Thx. I didn't know 612 referred to the PCC street car

I'm sorry. I thought the MATA quote mentioned that 612 was a PCC car, but I see I was mistaken.

[electricron]

612 is the Dallas PCC car. I don't think it is going to get fixed. If you reread what I posted, you will have the answers to your questions. It has too much rust. When they derusted the car, there wasn't that much car left there.

My comments are my own and I do not speak for or represent MATA.

If 612 is uneconomic to refurbish, what's the possibilities of substituting another PCC car they have in storage to replace it?
Are the Trammel Crow funds limited to this specific PCC car?

[Haretip]

I have no information about future plans. I don't even know if they know what they are going to do yet. FWIW, when I stopped by the carbarn last Friday night, someone had spray painted the word "scrap" on the side of 612, the Dallas PCC.

[Haretip]

So, it looks like the Dallas PCC, 612, is going back in to storage or scrap and the Toronto PCC car, 4614, that was in the shop is coming back from storage for restoration.

[lakewoodhobo]

So, it looks like the Dallas PCC, 612, is going back in to storage or scrap and the Toronto PCC car, 4614, that was in the shop is coming back from storage for restoration.

Good news. Hopefully 4614 doesn't have the same rust problem.

[Haretip]

4614 does not have the rust problem. The TTC refurbished the fleet at great expense shortly before decided to dump the cars. They were a great deal. The problem with 4614 is adding a required left hand door and re-gauging the wheels, but I think the cost to do that was much less than the problems needed to get 612 operational. Also, I believe the trucks from 612 will be rebuilt and used on 4614.

From the pictures I saw, it looks like 612 was taken to a scrap yard and was not put into storage.

[electricron]

It sure would have been nice to have the larger doubled ended PCC car in service, but single ended PCC cars will do the trick. MATA received lots of DART and FTA funding to build loops at both ends of its line - which accommodated single ended PCC cars. The turntable also helps at Cityplace.

[art_suckz]

So, it looks like the Dallas PCC, 612, is going back in to storage or scrap and the Toronto PCC car, 4614, that was in the shop is coming back from storage for restoration.

*sign* I knew something was up...

I will add a PCC car to my list of things I want to see before I die... along with lakes downtown.

[Haretip]

The current estimated finish date for 4614 is late December or early January. The staff is really motivated and they have good material to work with. Not sure what the car will be named. Maybe they could have a public contest and then it would end up being named Streety McStreetcarFace.

[Cbdallas]

Does anyone know what the status or plan is to move forward with the extension up to Knox. Is it about raising money (plan) or how does that even work with MATA. It would be great if there was something to generate some buzz with the public to get behind this and get it going.

[Tivo_Kenevil]

Does anyone know what the status or plan is to move forward with the extension up to Knox. Is it about raising money (plan) or how does that even work with MATA. It would be great if there was something to generate some buzz with the public to get behind this and get it going.

a feasibility study was approved back in march. Not sure what the status is on that

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... _tn__=%2As

[electricron]

Extending MATA to Knox with a single track loop requires 12,000 feet of new track. That's over 2 miles of track, and can easily cost over $30 Million. The latest extension into downtown Dallas cost $9.9 Million for just 0.65 miles of track, with over $5 Million of that coming from Federal grants. An extension to Knox would be three times longer, therefore three time more expensive; $10 Million turning into $30 Million. Where could MATA find that amount of money?

[tamtagon]

^NCTCOG, pocket change

[Cbdallas]

Surely there is a way to piece together 30 Million to get this done. It just needs a cohesive organized attack.

[Tnexster]

^NCTCOG, pocket change

Well.....not necessarily.

[northsouth]

At the bottom of the most recent MATA newsletter (link here), there is a short bit about the partial restoration of DR&T 189. The wording is a bit unclear, but I believe they're saying that the front end of the car has been removed, cosmetically restored, and will be placed on display at a hotel in the Cityplace area. Does this mean they intend to completely restore the rest of 189, or that this is as much as they will do for it?

[Cbdallas]

Also noticed Emma has been missing in action for a while which is too bad. MATA needs to be ramping up to meet the new growth in this area and seems to be faltering lately. I know there are the detractors but at some point to meet the needs of this urban area it really needs to go all modern streetcar and go from Bishop Arts connect downtown and go all the way to Knox on a reliable schedule.

[joshua.dodd]

MATA is currently working on plans to expand the trolley line to Henderson and Knox, and possibly to Cityplace. They are going ahead with the plans.

[cowboyeagle05]

MATA is currently working on plans to expand the trolley line to Henderson and Knox, and possibly to Cityplace. They are going ahead with the plans.

What does that mean though. It has been public for awhile that they were pursuing these plans the question for you is what are they doing now that they haven't already been doing? Did they get a donation towards that goal very recently? Did a feasibility study finish and now a council stamp approval is needed in some form? Are they going to be asking the new Knox/Henderson PID for funds towards the expansion?

[tamtagon]

I hope the Knox PID starts putting money into the streetcar! The sooner the better, and we already need to initiate plans to get the Knox extension headed down Henderson to Lower Greenville Ave (eventual extension East Grand leading to the Cotton Bowl).

AND the CitiPlace extension needs to reignite planning the renovation of the Peak-Haskell corridor - with streetcars, bike & pedestrian lane(s) leading to the Cotton Bowl.