Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

muncien wrote:It's hard to believe you could throw this kinda cash at a subway and not expand service to anyone... lol.

electricron wrote:Page 53 of that latest PDF link has some interesting financial numbers worth noting.
Victory Pacific Swiss $938 million
Victory Elm Swiss $1292 million
Victory Commerce Swiss $1264 million
The Pacific subway route is more than $300 million cheaper than the other two routes. Winner-winner-chicken-dinner!

The_Overdog wrote:Whomever makes DART presentations and especially their charts should take a class or maybe google 'making charts' once in my opinion.

Also the population density charts of the downtown areas are hilariously sad. Apparently freeways drive population growth in far north Collin County but in downtown Dallas with 2 plus a train you can't even get a squatter.

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:It's not the Freeway. It's the fact that Downtown was treated as corporate business park for decades and as a result it's stigmatized even to this day. Typically, people will move into an area when amenities , schools and services are readily available.

The thing with Downtown is that it's barely just starting to become a viable neighborhood for people who weren't pioneers in the Downtown Area. I think the population density reflects that. There needs to be more residential development in the area. More retail And even more residential.

I think we're 15+ yrs away from Downtown from being truly vibrant. 40K-80K people in the CBD would give you excellent pop. Density for street life and transit ridership .

It's the fact that Downtown was treated as corporate business park for decades and as a result it's stigmatized even to this day.

electricron wrote:

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:It's not the Freeway. It's the fact that Downtown was treated as corporate business park for decades and as a result it's stigmatized even to this day. Typically, people will move into an area when amenities , schools and services are readily available.

The thing with Downtown is that it's barely just starting to become a viable neighborhood for people who weren't pioneers in the Downtown Area. I think the population density reflects that. There needs to be more residential development in the area. More retail And even more residential.

I think we're 15+ yrs away from Downtown from being truly vibrant. 40K-80K people in the CBD would give you excellent pop. Density for street life and transit ridership .

Are there any primary and secondary schools near downtown Dallas apartment buildings close enough that students can walk to? El Central Community College or various Universities don't count in that regard. It's a Catch 22 scenario. there aren't any schools because there weren't any families living in downtown Dallas, and there aren't many families with school age children because there aren't any schools in downtown Dallas.

Very difficult to overcome the lack of schools, grocery stores, drug stores, or Walmarts in downtown Dallas or near it.

A subway in downtown Dallas? Here are three proposed routes

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/2017/05/05/subway-downtown-dallas-three-proposed-routes

The existing line will split near the Victory Avenue station and a new station would be adjacent to the Perot Museum. From there the route would stay above ground, running underneath Woodall Rodgers Freeway before going underground near Field Street.
Then the route could go on one of three paths. One would be beneath Pacific Avenue along the existing line, with a new subway station connect it to the existing Akard Station. From there the line would travel up to Swiss Avenue, passing the existing East End Transfer station.

The Pacific Avenue route would allow for easy transfers because of its proximity to the Akard Station and construction would not be extremely disruptive. But of the three proposed routes, this $938 million line would offer the least new coverage for riders.

“It’s that balance we are trying to figure out between making it easy for the existing ridership that we have to transfer and move, and also we want to open up the system to more riders to give more exposure to folks,” said Steve Salin, DART’s vice president of rail planning. “If you are on the same path, you aren’t going to do that as well.”

The second option would put the line one block further south, running under Elm Street at an estimated cost of $1.29 billion. Riders transferring between lines would have to walk a few blocks from a new subway stop to Akard Station or the West End station. But this route would allow for a slightly increased coverage area and make all the stations less crowded.

“This station at Pacific could be really, really busy with all four lines transferring at one point, this kind of spreads that out a little bit,” said Chad Edwards, DART’s assistant vice president of capital planning.
The third option, at an estimated cost of $1.26 billion, would put the line further south, running underneath Commerce Street. The line would pick up more coverage, but it would make it more difficult for riders to transfer between lines.

tamtagon wrote:gotta be Commerce. I'm still a little confused why none of the routes studied in depth have simply been trashed.

tamtagon wrote:The current three options are new(ish), only coming around in the last year or so, since the big dust-up about financing D2 and The Cotton Belt. Before that, there were six to eight options... a new Convention Center stop, Farmer's Market. These plans studied for a couple years, put in hibernation for a while, brought back out and studied again then thrown in the trash. Even at one point, an extension from Union Station area to the HSR Station was more than likely, it was preferred.

I'll search for those options when I can, or maybe someone has a readily available link, pdf or whatever.

tamtagon wrote:gotta be Commerce. I'm still a little confused why none of the routes studied in depth have simply been trashed.

tamtagon wrote:^thanks

Is there a solid reason why D2 wasn't proposed to spout from Union Station? why has it always started at Victory Park?

xen0blue wrote:this alignment offers no additional coverage. Hopefully it will at least be a subway from Victory Park to Deep Ellum. It was probably the worst of the original subway proposals.

tanzoak wrote:

xen0blue wrote:this alignment offers no additional coverage. Hopefully it will at least be a subway from Victory Park to Deep Ellum. It was probably the worst of the original subway proposals.

?

It provides the most additional coverage, and the whole point of the exercise was to design a subway between Victory and Deep Ellum

Hannibal Lecter wrote:What difference does it make? The bottom line is that the scum-sucking politicians are going to piss away a billion taxpayer dollars on a failed rail system that loses riders every year just so they can tell the 2% of the population that cares "We got you a subway!"

Hannibal Lecter wrote:^ Yup. Sell the cars to the proverbial greater fool, sell the rails for scrap and use the ROW for BRT.

The streetcar is projected to be completed by 2023 and the subway is expected to be finished the following year.

Cbdallas wrote:That stinks for the new big Epic development to loose that station.

dzh wrote:I'm very confused by both entrances to this subway. Both of them just seem like bad ideas to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for building this subway but the entrances just seem poorly thought out.

Victory Park: are we just going to have trains running along Museum Way? That seems like an incredibly small street to be placing double tracks on, not to mention it just seems odd to be having a train running right through the middle of Victory Park.

Deep Ellum: Is the entrance to the underground going to be along Miranda Street? To me that seems like an okay move if it is, but based on what I've read here...it sounds like they are not doing that?

Matt777 wrote:Any news on D2? Is construction starting soon?