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DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

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dzh
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby dzh » 21 Oct 2019 13:54

LongonBigD wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.


If it were truly the other way around, I’m pretty sure we’d be in the same predicament.

Imagine if the proposed HSR were from OKC to Dallas, who exactly would be pressing to shove that thing through North Dallas, Preston Hollow, University Park, and finally Highland Park to get downtown?



I bet they would figure out a way around those wealthy enclaves haha

And in the event they did have to pass through, I'm sure they would create an underground route. Which could actually end up being awesome if they were to build a rapid transit route along (this city really needs rapid transit instead of this weird commuter light-rail system) the HSR tunnel. But anyways, just pipe dreams there. I'm sure the future Dallas to OKC route we'll likely go up Stemmons or some other "less disruptive" alternative.

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Tucy
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 22 Oct 2019 11:48

electricron wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Glad to see this moving along but still painfull that it will only take you to the perimeter of Houston and not directly downtown.


I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.

The problem with a downtown Houston train station was a lack of a great site. The best site for a railroad station was torn down a decade ago for the new baseball park. Go Astros, let's hope they win the Series again.

The EIS studied two other locations nearer downtown, one on the north side of Buffalo Bayou and the other location at the present Amtrak train station site. The north site is set for developing into public housing complexes, and the existing Amtrak site is hemmed in without much room for station expansion. Both are terrible sites for a modern HSR train station - and both required running elevated viaduct through residential and hospital neighborhoods. There was just too many negatives for a new downtown Houston HSR station - unlike the approaches into downtown Dallas from the south.
Business travelers will be the bread and butter customers the HSR line will need to operate profitably every day. As long as the train station is closer to downtown Houston than the two Houston airports, it should not have any problems competing with them.


The problem was not with finding a good site. There were/are several workable sites. The problem was with the feasibility of constructing a rail line along the route from the northwest into downtown Houston. From the "last-mile analysis: "For the Houston UC Alternatives, the analysis suggests that Alternative B (a terminus located at US 290/IH-610) is rated the highest when considering cost, schedule, environmental, land use, engineering, and constructability concerns associated with an alignment constructed into Downtown Houston." http://www.texascentralhighspeedrail.com/resources/Last-Mile-Analysis_20150327_ISSUE.pdf
Last edited by Tucy on 23 Oct 2019 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Oct 2019 10:55

electricron wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Glad to see this moving along but still painfull that it will only take you to the perimeter of Houston and not directly downtown.


I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.

The problem with a downtown Houston train station was a lack of a great site. The best site for a railroad station was torn down a decade ago for the new baseball park. Go Astros, let's hope they win the Series again.

The EIS studied two other locations nearer downtown, one on the north side of Buffalo Bayou and the other location at the present Amtrak train station site. The north site is set for developing into public housing complexes, and the existing Amtrak site is hemmed in without much room for station expansion. Both are terrible sites for a modern HSR train station - and both required running elevated viaduct through residential and hospital neighborhoods. There was just too many negatives for a new downtown Houston HSR station - unlike the approaches into downtown Dallas from the south.
Business travelers will be the bread and butter customers the HSR line will need to operate profitably every day. As long as the train station is closer to downtown Houston than the two Houston airports, it should not have any problems competing with them.


In my conversations with Texas Central they said the issue with going into downtown Houston was not a location downtown but rather the cost of going into the central city. I am no expert on Houston terrain except that I know its a swamp but the cost per mile from where they currently end the line into downtown goes up so much it makes the entire project less feasible. It's like 100,000 million per mile or something like that. It was an outrageous number.

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muncien
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 23 Oct 2019 11:10

I know it has already been mentioned that there would be similar challenges in a line coming from OKC into Dallas. But, I also question if it would even be desired to have such a line terminate in the CBD when so much of our business population (the demographic targeted by HSR) in the norther suburbs. It would be impractical to take a slow Light Rail line 44 minutes south, just to turn around on an HSR route going north. A secondary station in the north would likely be required... And with such proximity and density along the stretch, it may not make financial sense for the gap in between each station to be high speed anyway.
"He doesn't know how to use the three seashells..."

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art_suckz
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 23 Oct 2019 13:26

I could see the OKC line going into FW first, then along 30 some other way without any degradation in its effectiveness.
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 23 Oct 2019 13:33

Doesn't seem to be enough people and/or business travel from all of Oklahoma let alone OKC to get the for-profit HSR trains looking that way. Connecting San Antonio and Austin to Dallas, for sure.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 23 Oct 2019 13:36

Same... I was just speaking from the standpoint of difficulty of finding space
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Oct 2019 14:57

tamtagon wrote:Doesn't seem to be enough people and/or business travel from all of Oklahoma let alone OKC to get the for-profit HSR trains looking that way. Connecting San Antonio and Austin to Dallas, for sure.


Brings up another point that came directly from Texas Central. The reason they picked Dallas and Houston is because the two cities on either end of the line are the minimum sized metros required to make the line profitable, and the land between the two cities is basically flat. If that's true then OKC isn't feasible and neither is Fort Worth. Austin is probably too small at this point. Another point was the Dallas to FW line that everybody wants. That is not in Texas Centrals plans so that has to be built and paid for by somebody else and Texas Central had no plans to operate that line if it was built.

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Tucy
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 20 Nov 2019 16:07

New renderings of the three HSR stations are out today:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Newes ... 35412.html

Tnexster
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 20 Nov 2019 16:33

I like these better!

DPatel304
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Nov 2019 16:36

The entrance of the station in Dallas. The goal is to have travelers from the street to the train in as little as 45 seconds.


Looks good to me, and I like this tidbit. I'm wondering how much parking they plan to have in this thing because I know early renderings lead me to believe it would be a lot.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Nov 2019 18:34

So this is the "iconic" design we were promised? ..... Yawn.

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tamtagon
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 20 Nov 2019 20:53

...maybe the iconic design will come with the adjoining hotel

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Nov 2019 09:55

Yeah honestly if they start construction of the high-speed rail project they are likely to see things like hotels and such announced in short order. They are spending private investment here to fund a basic line if you will. If they can prove they can actually start building developers and partners are more likely.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 21 Nov 2019 10:48

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yeah honestly if they start construction of the high-speed rail project they are likely to see things like hotels and such announced in short order. They are spending private investment here to fund a basic line if you will. If they can prove they can actually start building developers and partners are more likely.


That's what I'm most excited to see. I'm so glad we were lucky enough to get the Dallas station so close to Downtown, because that area is going to explode once this thing gets going.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 21 Nov 2019 16:06

Texas High-Speed Train Is ‘Shovel Ready'

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Texas ... 82232.html

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Nov 2019 14:27

Texas Central enters new agreement for high-speed rail project

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... speed.html

The developer seeking to connect Houston to North Texas by high-speed rail has added a new partner.

Texas Central announced Thursday that it has signed an early works agreement with train system installation firm Mass. Electric Construction Co. Through the end of the year, both companies plan to outline the scope of the future agreement, including a construction schedule and cost of work. The agreement is set to be signed later this year.

Mass. Electric, a subsidiary of Kiewit Corp., will be installing the core system, signaling and communication equipment, as well as critical safety elements for Texas Central.

The core system is also a key component of Central Japan Railway's Tokaido Shinkansen N700S technology. The Shinkansen N700S train system is known as the world’s safest mass transit system and serves as a foundation that Texas Central is basing its project on.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 02 Jan 2020 14:18

Texas Central twitter page says construction starts Q3

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Jan 2020 14:23

I'm highly skeptical, but I'm at least glad that there does seem to be constant updates/talks about this project, and that it's not something that has gone completely quiet.

Link for those who are wondering:
https://twitter.com/TexasCentral/status ... 6170247171


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