Dallas Fort Worth Urban Forum

Tucy wrote: I'm pretty sure the City of Dallas owns Union Station. Hunt has a long-term lease.

as per the usual, you're correct:

http://www.huntrealty.com/union-station.aspx

Originally opened in 1916, Union Station is Dallas' historic railroad terminal. In 1972, the city of Dallas purchased the building. Under a public-private agreement, Hunt executed a long-term lease and began a renovation restoring Union Station to a multitenant, mixed-use building.

For all intents and purposes, this lease gives Hunt Inc virtually all the decision making. Perots might have more money, but I'm not sure any family has as much pull in Dallas as the Hunts, at least for now.

It doesn't matter who owns the buildings adjacent to/ and Union Station as much as who owns the railroad corridors. I don't think the UP, BNSF, DGNO, TRE, or DART will allow a privately owned HSR elevated track and station structure above their grade level tracks. Parallel to their tracks maybe, but not immediately above them.
And I doubt Texas Central HSR would want their passengers breathing diesel exhaust fumes from TRE and Amtrak locomotives. I also don't think Texas Central HSR would want to build their station platforms over freight tracks that carry hazardous chemicals. So there are many reasons why elevated HSR platforms at Union Station isn't an ideal solution.

when did Union Station come into play? I thought the two proposed sites were over I-30 and in the Cedars.

rantanamo wrote:when did Union Station come into play? I thought the two proposed sites were over I-30 and in the Cedars.

It's not! Somebody who doesn't have to pay for it or build it suggested Union Station would be better site.

electricron wrote:

rantanamo wrote:when did Union Station come into play? I thought the two proposed sites were over I-30 and in the Cedars.

It's not! Somebody who doesn't have to pay for it or build it suggested Union Station would be better site.

Ok.....

I suggested it because it's obviously better for transit connectivity. In the Cedars, ok, you arrive at the HSR station. Now what? Get in your car parked in a massive garage or surface lot? Uber? Walk through a developing yet sketchy neighborhood to the DART station? I've taken HSR trains in Europe and Asia and the great thing about them is that they drop you off in the traditional city center, and multiple transit options are usually right at the door to get to your final destination. It's not crazy to suggest that the extra cost of locating it on the downtown side of 30 rather than the Cedars might be worth considering......... And don't forget that there will be a lot of public resources devoted to this project through cooperation, and possibly public funding, so you better believe that I as a taxpayer want this project to be done right. Or just not at all. We don't need another DART regional rail debacle where we invest billions of taxpayer dollars for a flawed design. Sorry for being concerned about this becoming a boondoggle, but not sorry. I want the best outcome for our city regardless of it meaning a larger investment from our private "partners."

/\ I would agree it would be ideal if the station/termination were inside the freeway loop. I hope that they consider the old DMN Site -- I think they should also look at going underground... if they want to eventually go north to OK then going underground to get out of downtown seems like the best way to go.

I wish our Union Station didn't suck so bad. I spent three hours there in July while waiting on my delayed train and couldn't help but see how terrible it is. I agree that the location would certainly be best for HSR, but there is no way it'll ever be able to function as a HSR station. That said, I totally agree with the thought of using the Reunion location as the next best alternative. The 'Hotel Street' corridor has more than enough ROW to handle HSR tracks. But I suspect that the Hunts either aren't interested, or are asking a pretty penny for that spot. That's a bummer...

For one thing Texas Central choose the location in the Cedars cause it was a close as they could get to DART without running into too many issues. I trust their logistical speculation over my own romanticism for a Union Station restoration as the transit hub. Texas Central's business model is about stations that connect to the larger systems and DART is working with Texas Central on better connections because it will be a important connection. Y'all act like they don't even know each other exists. DART is terrible at many things but they are planning on making changes to connect to the HSR station. What those immediate changes are versus long term changes we don't know yet but believe me DART and Texas Central know they need to make a firm handshake. DART becomes more relevant when it's connected by HSR and riding to Dallas on HSR only becomes worth it when you aren't left in a field next to one behind schedule bus stop. When the details of the location are released it will be like a new sun was created in Downtown where transportation will be pulled in by a new gravity created by the HSR station. The station will have multiple bus lines stopping by as well as Uber/Lyft, Bike share, car parking and drop off and DART will make adjustments to train station connections to improve in the short term the firm handshake needed. I assure you the City, DART and Texas Central are talking behind the scenes about whats physically possible.

An adaptive LRT loop that allows all lines scheduled stops at the HSR station would be a best case scenario for DART and TCP; local rail passengers are not encumbered by HSR passenger needs who in turn have full access to the LRT system.

South Dallas could reinvent as quickly as Uptown did, maybe even quicker.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:For one thing Texas Central choose the location in the Cedars cause it was a close as they could get to DART without running into too many issues. I trust their logistical speculation over my own romanticism for a Union Station restoration as the transit hub. Texas Central's business model is about stations that connect to the larger systems and DART is working with Texas Central on better connections because it will be a important connection. Y'all act like they don't even know each other exists. DART is terrible at many things but they are planning on making changes to connect to the HSR station. What those immediate changes are versus long term changes we don't know yet but believe me DART and Texas Central know they need to make a firm handshake. DART becomes more relevant when it's connected by HSR and riding to Dallas on HSR only becomes worth it when you aren't left in a field next to one behind schedule bus stop. When the details of the location are released it will be like a new sun was created in Downtown where transportation will be pulled in by a new gravity created by the HSR station. The station will have multiple bus lines stopping by as well as Uber/Lyft, Bike share, car parking and drop off and DART will make adjustments to train station connections to improve in the short term the firm handshake needed. I assure you the City, DART and Texas Central are talking behind the scenes about whats physically possible.

I really hope all that is true, but I don't trust DART leadership, I don't trust our current City of Dallas leadership, and Texas Central is a brand new organization. Therefore, they need to loop the public in on these plans to get our buy in. Not "just shhh and trust us."

They don't need our buy in though cause they are dependent on our votes here. I understand your reluctance based on the evidence but one thing DART has done is build new train lines and the stations. Here is merely a case where DART will have to make a strong connection and while DART isn't great with connecting buses with their rail they love building new projects that have wide support and connecting a HSR station with DART buses and rail will be an easy project for them to push through all the usual slow downs.

Keep in mind Texas Central really isn't a new company. It's preloaded with Japenese consultants from the Central Japan Railway Company who have been building high-speed rail systems connected to large cities with internal railway and bus systems. Their entire history is literally building HSR that connects long distances with the shorter mass transit systems. It's not some startup that has caviar wishes of cute little trains taking hipsters back and forth from the Bishop Arts and Uptown. It's a shell company created to move Central Japans project/product forward connecting business clients from Houston to Dallas and back again to collect profits. It's not the usual municipality looking for a ribbon cutting opportunities for press coverage. They want profits and the business model includes surrounding the station with development and a connection to other mass transit.

As far as the city is concerned they are damn near bubbly about it for all the press it will give them so I imagine the city with our new City Manager in the lead will give Texas Central what it wants as fast as they can suck bond money from any project already on the books.

Not many people talking about this but I hope something good comes out of Hurricane Harvey and Texas politicians stop getting on the way of turning this into reality. Would have really helped relocate lots of people in the Houston area to N Texas quickly. When a hurricane is heading to the Texas coast, we need it all: highways, airplanes, and trains. Driving is too slow and jams up (why Houston didn't evacuate) and flying is to bureaucratic. But they would both be alleviated a bit if we had that Dallas to Houston High Speed Rail.

At this point, I would think Houston would be enthusiastic about the investment into their region. Although it would have made it easy to get thousands of people out of the area it doesn't really matter if the evacuation order isn't given.

dollaztx wrote:When a hurricane is heading to the Texas coast, we need it all: highways, airplanes, and trains. Driving is too slow and jams up (why Houston didn't evacuate) and flying is to bureaucratic. But they would both be alleviated a bit if we had that Dallas to Houston High Speed Rail.

From a post I made elsewhere earlier today:

There's simply no faster way to evacuate an area than highways. None. In another post someone mentioned that High Speed Rail would have be great for evacuating Houston. Here's some basic math. Assume you have a high speed rail line from Houston to DFW. It has the equipment to carry 5000 people at a time (unlikely, but let's go with that). Travel time from Houston is 90 minutes. But you then have to get the train back to Houston to pick up another load. And you need some time for loading and unloading. Again, let's say 30 minutes per trip. So you can move 5000 people in 3:30. You can run a little under 7 round trips per 24 hours. So you can evacuate about 34,000 people in the 24 hours before a storm hits. Congratulations, you just saved one-half percent of the Houston area. On the other hand, a 4-lane highway like I-45 with all lanes outbound in evacuation mode can handle 700,00-800,00 people in the same time period (supporting data available if anyone wants it). So existing I-45 and I-10 (east and west) can handle over 2,000,000 evacuees in that same 24 hour period.

Except this happened and that's why most didn't try to drive away this time:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 521994.php

It supports your 2m people evacuation attempt by the way. Most of them sort of made it.

Nobody is saying that highways aren't a perfectly fine way to evacuate a city, but they continually fail when they are the only way and plenty of people who stayed behind were unable to drive so highways do them no good. Sucks to be them I guess in your world.

I also love that you compare 16 lanes of traffic to 1 or 2 trains. Sounds like a fair comparison to me!

The_Overdog wrote:Except this happened and that's why most didn't try to drive away this time:

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 521994.php

It supports your 2m people evacuation attempt by the way. Most of them sort of made it.

Nobody is saying that highways aren't a perfectly fine way to evacuate a city, but they continually fail when they are the only way and plenty of people who stayed behind were unable to drive so highways do them no good. Sucks to be them I guess in your world.

I also love that you compare 16 lanes of traffic to 1 or 2 trains. Sounds like a fair comparison to me!

No kidding... Let's not forget that more people died fleeing Hurricane Rita in cars than any other reason related to the Hurricane. It also took more than 20 hours to get out. Let's not kid ourselves and pretend that I45 can really handle that kind of volume.

Also, nobody is suggesting replacing I45 as a means of exit. HSR would be supplemental, not susceptible to gridlock, and actually allow I45 to function more effectively.

Whereas all means of transportation will be used for an evacuation, most people will still use cars and highways to do so. HSR will only provide a drop in a 5 gallon bucket to it.

No one should be suggesting using evacuations as an reason for building a HSR network. When it is built, it will be built to earn a profit for its investors by providing a service to its customers.

Remember when DART first open up the Green Line to Fair Park and everyone tried to get to the UT-OU game using light rail and how bad that failed. There's no way light rail could carry 50,000 fans to the game, yet so many cars hoguht it could. They forgot to do the math.
SLRV has around 100 seats, pack as sardines capacity being 150.
With 3 SLRV per train, packed capacity per train is 450.
50,000 / 450 = 111.111 trains.
With one train every 5 minutes in an ideal world (12 trains per hour), it'll take 9.25 hours. There's no pratical way for DART to move that many more people in two hours on one of its four light rail lines.

For me supporting the HSR was always about adding capacity. Lord knows it's not like I supported some fantasy that HSR would entirely replace a highway system in this state. The reality is the highway system only has a limited capacity. You can not just keep adding lanes so that leaves the question how do you get more movement of people to keep the economic gains coming. How do you keep things moving when a back up stalls the freeway. You do that by diversifying your transportation options.

The 'potential' for HSR is significant. In Japan for instance, they have a single line that moves 23,000 people in an hour, using the same technology that is intended for our route. I'm not saying it'll be able to do that here, or even come close to it. But the 'potential' is there.

And again... nobody was suggesting replacing freeways. It's all about redundancy. And just because DART can't effectively move tens of thousands along an at grade route, on LRT, through a heavily populated city... doesn't mean everything on rails will have the same fate.

With one train every 5 minutes in an ideal world (12 trains per hour), it'll take 9.25 hours. There's no pratical way for DART to move that many more people in two hours on one of its four light rail lines.

Man this again? They invented this thing called "tailgating" for sporting events like football games long ago because highways can't deliver that kind of traffic to a single location either. They spent close to 1/3 of the HSR's $10b cost on the recent 635 expansion project, but nobody is marveling that you can't drive from Garland to DFW airport 20 minutes before your flight.

I think the HSR project could be an excellent infrastructure project to bring investment back into to Houston after Harvey.

BTW, does anyone know if the proposed station site flooded, as compared to downtown?

Based on both those maps the HSR station wouldn't be flooded but could have potentially been damaged. Since I haven't seen any actual footage of the future train station site after the events it's hard to tell. Not to mention the infrastructure that leads to the end of line station could be damaged significantly or maybe not at all.

willyk wrote:I think the HSR project could be an excellent infrastructure project to bring investment back into to Houston after Harvey.

Since this is a private project, my mind was going in the opposite direction. Meaning, if Houston starts declining as a city, there is less incentive for this project to actually happen. Part of the appeal (initially) was the ability to connect two rapidly growing cities.

With that said, I don't think recent events will really change anything regarding the HSR.

DPatel304 wrote:

willyk wrote:I think the HSR project could be an excellent infrastructure project to bring investment back into to Houston after Harvey.

Since this is a private project, my mind was going in the opposite direction. Meaning, if Houston starts declining as a city, there is less incentive for this project to actually happen. Part of the appeal (initially) was the ability to connect two rapidly growing cities.

With that said, I don't think recent events will really change anything regarding the HSR.

C'mon, Houston is NOT going to stop growing. The economic fundamentals that have made it Dynamo for decades have not changed because of another storm or flood. They've had them before, they'll have them again. And sometime in the next decade, they'll have 8 million people.

I agree, I didn't mean to say Houston would stop growing because of a Hurricane. Also, my comment wasn't just about the flood, it was also about the declining O&G industry which has slowed Houston's growth in the last year or so.

I mainly meant to say that I don't see the HSR has a tool to help a city 'bring back' investment. It's a private project, so enough investment should already exist in both cities for it to make sense. It will, no doubt, create more investment in both Dallas and Houston, but it's not like the DART where they built stations in under-developed areas hoping investment would come.

But yes, Houston is going through a bit of a rough patch, but it's only temporary.

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Based on both those maps the HSR station wouldn't be flooded but could have potentially been damaged. Since I haven't seen any actual footage of the future train station site after the events it's hard to tell. Not to mention the infrastructure that leads to the end of line station could be damaged significantly or maybe not at all.

They will build an elevated rail corridor in flood zones. No one is going to buy stocks or bonds for a railroad that could flood every year. Whether or not people will be able to get to the train station is another matter.

High-Speed Rail Update – Station Zone Assessment
(Trinity Riverfront & Cedars urban design study by Perkins+Will):

http://dallascityhall.com/government/Co ... 111317.pdf
http://dallascityhall.com/government/Co ... 111317.pdf

There are many more interesting graphics in the presentation file linked above

Street grid improvements is key. Glad they thought of that. The area has a bunch of dead end streets

It was an interesting presentation and study to read. It basically looked at improving three things; (1)drivability to the site including parking,(2) walkability to the site including aerial structures, (3) gettiing transit to the site.
(1) and (2) was mostly accomplished by reinstating a street grid including sidewalks around the site. (3) was limited to just a few options which seems to have driven past discussions on this thread; (a) adding a station along the existing red-blue light rail corridor that would be nearer to the proposed HSR station that will still be blocks away, (b) extending a street car out from downtown to this site, and (c) using the existing freight rail corridor in one of two different ways - extending TRE trains and/or building a people mover system resembling those at DFW airport.
By far, the cheapest solutions for bringing transit to the future HSR station would be extending the TRE trains, and/or running circulator buses similar to what DART already does. I wouldn't be surprised to see those last two being chosen to be implemented as the final mass transit solutions. The circulator buses will get HSR passengers to their final destinations in downtown, while the TRE trains will get HSR passengers closer their final destinations through out the metropolitan area.

Lots of different ideas they’re throwing around on there. Love their embrace of BRT for Riverfront and Cedars. I’ve long thought and submitted comments to DART about greater use of BRT or BRT-lite. This seems far more economical than the strange idea of a stub DART line from the airport.

The “Core Express Service” in green interested me... one branch seemed to go towards Trinity Groves but I presume this is really to Arlington. Also appeared to be towards FTW so not sure if this is a supplement of TRE.

The TRE extension seems logical given the challenge of extending that a mile versus moving the whole HSR complex.

The Union Station-HSR station people mover seemed a little excessive as it’s not like that point in Downtown is that central or convenient anyway. Reminded me of the Waterloo and City line on the tube though.

Commuter rail to Waxahatchie... what the heck. Anybody heard anything about commuter rail to southern suburbs before?

Elsewhere they seem to have some great ideas on how to make that district successful including walkable blocks, pocket parks, changes to roadways, and integration of nature. Obviously only a small portion will materialize but pretty amazing stuff

PonyUp13 wrote:The “Core Express Service” in green interested me... one branch seemed to go towards Trinity Groves but I presume this is really to Arlington. Also appeared to be towards FTW so not sure if this is a supplement of TRE.

The "DFW Core Express" project is the planned high-speed rail connection/extension of the Houston HSR west to Fort Worth. The cities of Dallas and Fort Worth are currently coordinating to develop an Interlocal Agreement (ILA) and Local Government Corporation (LGC) to advance the project. It looks like there is possibility for Arlington and Grand Prairie to be involved.
Project update: http://dallascityhall.com/government/Co ... 111317.pdf

PonyUp13 wrote:Commuter rail to Waxahatchie... what the heck. Anybody heard anything about commuter rail to southern suburbs before?

Yes, service to southern Dallas County and Ellis County has been in the North Central Texas Central Council of Governments' (NCTCOG) longe range vision for many years. Here is a recent update on the Mobility2045 transportion planning: http://www.nctcog.org/trans/committees/ ... 101217.pdf

NCTCOG Mobility plans:
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/previous/index.asp
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/previous/mob2020.asp
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/previous/mob2025.asp
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/2030/
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/2035/index.asp
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/2040/
http://www.nctcog.org/trans/mtp/2045.asp

Ellis County commuter rail has been pushed by the NCTCOG and RTC for years. but lets get a little realistic with the lack of population within Ellis County and it's ability to financially support a commuter rail line....
Various nearby County population data:
*Dallas County 2,574,984
*Tarrant County 2,016,872
*Collin County 939,585
*Denton County 806,180
Ellis County 168,499
Johnson County 163,274
Parker County 129,441
Kauffman County 118,350
Rockwall County 93,978
Wise County 64,455
(*) Counties with major cities having a transit agency supplying train services.
While Ellis county might be the largest of the small metroplex counties in population, it is still almost 5 times smaller than the smallest large metroplex counties in population.
Math = (168,499 / 806,180)x100 = 20.9%
At some point, there isn't sufficient population and tax revenues to support a train service financially, even one heavily subsidized.

Downtown Houston HSR station now eliminated with the electrified route now idenfitied as the chosen and preferred route for the HSR.

Downtown Dallas' Cedars District to a location in NW Houston will be the two main stations in each city.

Newly Released High-Speed Rail Impact Study Highlights Potential Houston Terminals
by Kyle Hagerty, Bisnow Houston, December 18, 2017

As part of its initial planning effort, Texas Central Railroad identified and evaluated four HSR corridor alternatives and then narrowed down to two options: One that primarily followed the BNSF rail line and one using existing, high-voltage transmission line easements along the utility corridor.

The FRA's analysis determined the utility corridor route is the preferred location.

The selection of the utility corridor as the preferred route also narrowed the TCRR proposed station locations to the Downtown Dallas/Interstate 30 area (the Cedars District), Grimes County (near Roan’s Prairie) and the US 290/Interstate 610/Interstate 10 area of northwest Houston.

With a preferred route selected and possible connections to Downtown Houston eliminated, Houston's terminal options narrowed to just two options: US 290/Beltway 8 and US 290/I-610.
...
Article: https://www.bisnow.com/houston/news/eco ... %40aol.com

Should have chosen Union Station for the Dallas terminal. Obvious, obvious, obvious.

xen0blue wrote:Should have chosen Union Station for the Dallas terminal. Obvious, obvious, obvious.

Where would they place the dedicated HSR tracks at Union Station?
The latest NCTCOG funded DEIS for the Fort Worth HSR station places it 30 feet above the existing ITC station platforms, in a location with far more room. So in the tighter confines of Union Station yard and platforms, the only real solution will be the same, 30 feet above the light rail, TRE, Amtrak, BNSF and UP tracks.
Do you really believe the same hotel and Union Station owners will want a train station 30 feet high between them?
Face some reality, the developers of Union Station didn't propose to help fund a new HSR train station like the developers in the Cedars area did. Co-operation is worth more than its weight in gold.

xen0blue wrote:Should have chosen Union Station for the Dallas terminal. Obvious, obvious, obvious.

This is close enough for me. As long as the area is re-developed in a way that makes walking from one to the other a breeze, then I'm happy.

A recent four hour delay while waiting for my train (Amtrak) at Union Station kinda dimmed my preference for that location. While the building itself is fairly attractive, the inside is a total dump and needs a major overhaul, and then there is just no space to support the low traffic during Amtrak arrivals/departures, much less function as a serious HSR terminal.
Some serious redevelopment between the two stations could make it all work out quite well... But, that'll be far bigger than the HSR station itself.

I didn't see a thread for Dallas Union Terminal, so I'll post this think piece here for the time being.

http://myprogressiverailroading.com/myp ... for-trains

Union Station would have never worked its too small and the HSR needs a lot of modern facilities to process passengers the way they need to. Our little Union Station is perfect for a regional transportation hub at this point and that's about it. The downstairs hasn't seen a lot of investment because it hasn't had much purpose. Its not a critical stop to anything beyond its historical implications. Its a Amtrack station with connections to DART and if you compare most Amtrak stations in Texas alone we are a luxury liner by comparison. Many stations don't have as much inside space to work with since Amtrak isn't a popular mode of travel in this state. Plus we have all seen how the city handles its property. Spends money to restore and renovate and then practically abandons ship with ongoing maintenance which leads to a huge need for critical renovations when they realize they left things to rot. The upstairs has been redone multiple times since the hotel leases it from the city as event space. Spots like the West End Bus Station has a ton more traffic passing through it.

Personally I would more than love to see DART make Union Station a better hub but they have focused on the West End Station for further traffic management investment based on existing traffic data.

So much for a skyline-altering design. I'll take it, but we were promised more.

Texas Central DEIS public hearings tonight at Dallas and Navarro Counties.

Dallas County 5p-9p
Wilmer Hutchins High School
5520 Langdon Rd, Dallas, TX 75241

Navarro County 5p-9p
Corsicana Middle School
4101 FM 744 Corsicana, TX 75110

lakewoodhobo wrote:So much for a skyline-altering design. I'll take it, but we were promised more.

I think the skyline-altering part is just not shown in this view... at this time.... All we're seeing here is the train track, covered (but maybe not air-conditioned?) station, and elevated walkways to new giant parking garage and convention center.

To make money, Texas Central and partners will operate the quick ride between Dallas and Houston so passengers will spend money on all the stuff build around the station, much the same way big convenience stores (Buck-EEs, QuickTrip, RaceTrak) break even on gasoline just so customers go inside the store and buy stuff. There's gonna be a honkin-big hotel adjacent to the train station -- probably the reason these pictures show sheltered walkways over I-30 to the convention center! There's probably going to be something on top of the parking garage, mixed use entertainment destination and likely overnight accommodation as well.

The purpose of the train is to put customers in the station adjacent development, and that's where Texas Central founding partner Matthews Southwest comes in. When MattSW bid for the contract to build the existing convention center hotel, sketches by one of the popular Starchitects helped win; the hotel component of the station co-op might actually be a skyline changing exclamation. I certainly hope so.

With a deck park connecting the convention center to The Cedars, we're in for a complete renovation of the butt-end of the convention center, ideal setting for a new skyscraper.

If only we could destroy the money wasting Pitt that is the KBH center....

Here is a link to the Texas Central Partners website page about the station.

https://www.texascentral.com/2018/01/29 ... n-station/

The text and notes on the plan map mention pedestrian walkways to Dart's Convention Center Station and Union Station. They also mention possible extension of TRE to the TC Station and preserving ROW for a Ft. Worth connection.

Could they not mask the parking structure ?

That garage is an insult to the progress that The Cedars has made so far, it's almost like going backwards in time. I really hope they don't plan to just build a massive bank garage in the neighborhood.

Thymant wrote:That garage is an insult to the progress that The Cedars has made so far, it's almost like going backwards in time. I really hope they don't plan to just build a massive bank garage in the neighborhood.

My thoughts exactly. This station is supposed to be a huge catalyst for development, and, while that will still be true, it's absurd that so much space is being taken up by an above ground parking garage. This should be more of an urban mall with an attached high-rise.