DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
- electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I would feel much better about the latest news if it was posted on Texas Central's web site, but as I am writing this response it is not there.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
That website has been basically dead for two years. But then they also have very little staff around, anybody that kept up with that was let go almost two years ago.electricron wrote:I would feel much better about the latest news if it was posted on Texas Central's web site, but as I am writing this response it is not there.
- undefinedprocess
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...
Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.
Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I heard that the Texas Supreme Court requested the state of Texas weigh in on the HSR, etc. Basically the State’s position was NOT in support of the project anymore, so just one more reason that the project may never get built. It’s unfortunate IMHO but we’ll see what the TSC says. If the ruling is that Texas Central is not a RR and cannot use eminent domain then it spells doom for almost any other similar rail or privatized hyper loop project in the future..undefinedprocess wrote:Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...
Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.
- undefinedprocess
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Yeah, and the news coming out a day or two ago about Texas Central not paying taxes... Not looking too good. Wonder if Brightline could do something. They seem to have all of their shit together in multiple states.mhainli wrote:I heard that the Texas Supreme Court requested the state of Texas weigh in on the HSR, etc. Basically the State’s position was NOT in support of the project anymore, so just one more reason that the project may never get built. It’s unfortunate IMHO but we’ll see what the TSC says. If the ruling is that Texas Central is not a RR and cannot use eminent domain then it spells doom for almost any other similar rail or privatized hyper loop project in the future..undefinedprocess wrote:Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...
Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Do we have a general idea when the Texas supreme court will put out their ruling on this?? I've been waiting on pins and needles...
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The ruling so be this summer.
TC needs to put up (show financing) or shut up (let another company take the idea).
TC needs to put up (show financing) or shut up (let another company take the idea).
- undefinedprocess
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Yup. I've pretty much lost faith in them now with the whole tax debacle. Time to let someone else step in and take the reins.longhorn wrote:TC needs to put up (show financing) or shut up (let another company take the idea).
- ajderry2017
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
https://www.linkedin.com/posts/carlosfa ... um=ios_app
(From discord) looks like CEO of Texas central is stepping down. This is the end fellas
(From discord) looks like CEO of Texas central is stepping down. This is the end fellas
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?
Edit: Just noticed I already asked this
Edit: Just noticed I already asked this
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Does it really matter at this point?IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?
Edit: Just noticed I already asked this
The CEO has already thrown in the towel.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I am afraid the only High Speed rail we are ever going to experience is along our travels to Europe or Asia.
- The_Overdog
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
3 thoughts:
1) This shows exactly why railroad infrastructure in the US is so expensive- gigantic front end costs that other countries don't deal with. It'd be interesting to tally how much money they have spent to this point with little to show for it, maybe beyond a less-than completely contiguous rail corridor they are in tax arrears for. Other countries, like China, have built entire runs just since this has been proposed.
2) We all laugh, but Brightline in Florida is under construction, about to open, and has plans for a 300 mile run to Orlando. So maybe a Ft Worth to Dallas as a lower speed segment that would have solved lots of problems (ie: would be a railroad) and shown promise would not have been a terrible idea in hindsight.
3) Per Community Impact:
"Aguilar testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Transportation Committee in May 2021 and its subcommittee on railroads, where he suggested the railroad could use funds from the 1998 House Resolution 2, which includes a program that guarantees federal loans of up to $3.5 billion for projects.
H-GAC transportation officials confirmed to Community Impact Newspaper that the project is on the organization’s 2023-26 Transportation Improvement Plans, where its current entry lists it receiving $3.3 billion in local funds."
So I'm not sure if the $3.3 billion is matching funds or straight cash-money, but maybe it is just temporarily on-hold, and another CEO can shepherd it beyond. That's just me being ridiculously optimistic.
1) This shows exactly why railroad infrastructure in the US is so expensive- gigantic front end costs that other countries don't deal with. It'd be interesting to tally how much money they have spent to this point with little to show for it, maybe beyond a less-than completely contiguous rail corridor they are in tax arrears for. Other countries, like China, have built entire runs just since this has been proposed.
2) We all laugh, but Brightline in Florida is under construction, about to open, and has plans for a 300 mile run to Orlando. So maybe a Ft Worth to Dallas as a lower speed segment that would have solved lots of problems (ie: would be a railroad) and shown promise would not have been a terrible idea in hindsight.
3) Per Community Impact:
"Aguilar testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Transportation Committee in May 2021 and its subcommittee on railroads, where he suggested the railroad could use funds from the 1998 House Resolution 2, which includes a program that guarantees federal loans of up to $3.5 billion for projects.
H-GAC transportation officials confirmed to Community Impact Newspaper that the project is on the organization’s 2023-26 Transportation Improvement Plans, where its current entry lists it receiving $3.3 billion in local funds."
So I'm not sure if the $3.3 billion is matching funds or straight cash-money, but maybe it is just temporarily on-hold, and another CEO can shepherd it beyond. That's just me being ridiculously optimistic.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.Addison wrote:Does it really matter at this point?IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?
Edit: Just noticed I already asked this
The CEO has already thrown in the towel.
Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
As it says in your quoted language, the proposed federal money was to be a loan.The_Overdog wrote:3 thoughts:
1) This shows exactly why railroad infrastructure in the US is so expensive- gigantic front end costs that other countries don't deal with. It'd be interesting to tally how much money they have spent to this point with little to show for it, maybe beyond a less-than completely contiguous rail corridor they are in tax arrears for. Other countries, like China, have built entire runs just since this has been proposed.
2) We all laugh, but Brightline in Florida is under construction, about to open, and has plans for a 300 mile run to Orlando. So maybe a Ft Worth to Dallas as a lower speed segment that would have solved lots of problems (ie: would be a railroad) and shown promise would not have been a terrible idea in hindsight.
3) Per Community Impact:
"Aguilar testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Transportation Committee in May 2021 and its subcommittee on railroads, where he suggested the railroad could use funds from the 1998 House Resolution 2, which includes a program that guarantees federal loans of up to $3.5 billion for projects.
H-GAC transportation officials confirmed to Community Impact Newspaper that the project is on the organization’s 2023-26 Transportation Improvement Plans, where its current entry lists it receiving $3.3 billion in local funds."
So I'm not sure if the $3.3 billion is matching funds or straight cash-money, but maybe it is just temporarily on-hold, and another CEO can shepherd it beyond. That's just me being ridiculously optimistic.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Fair enough.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.Addison wrote:Does it really matter at this point?IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?
Edit: Just noticed I already asked this
The CEO has already thrown in the towel.
Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.htmlAddison wrote:Fair enough.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.Addison wrote:
Does it really matter at this point?
The CEO has already thrown in the towel.
Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.
Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Yep, saw that in the discord.mhainli wrote:https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.htmlAddison wrote:Fair enough.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote: Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.
Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.
Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..
I guess all hope isn't lost then...
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Time to show the 30 Billion dollars financing.mhainli wrote:https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.htmlAddison wrote:Fair enough.IcedCowboyCoffee wrote: Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.
Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.
Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Everything seems pretty quiet, and their web page is never updated anymore. Maybe they just need someone to turn out the lights.tamtagon wrote:So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
This is their most recent update: https://twitter.com/TexasCentral/status ... 7245734915Tnexster wrote:Everything seems pretty quiet, and their web page is never updated anymore. Maybe they just need someone to turn out the lights.tamtagon wrote:So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.
So, time will tell. I'll start getting pessimistic if we don't hear anything within the next year as they figure out (or fail to figure out) this transition.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The problem is they do not have a leader, so they are rudderless. Will anyone sign on, or has the lobbying finally beat this project into submission. You have to have a potential CEO willing to fight with the airlines and rural politicians who have decided it's the second coming of satan to have high-speed rail in Texas.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
This project also needs a new political champion. The governor has backed away from it in recent months. Perhaps when the November election is over he can stop worrying about his previous support of the project becoming a risky political issue.
It’s good to finally get a statement from Texas Central referring to the Texas Supreme Court ruling granting right of eminent domain. Now getting the right leader and the financial backing…
It’s good to finally get a statement from Texas Central referring to the Texas Supreme Court ruling granting right of eminent domain. Now getting the right leader and the financial backing…
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from that press release. Seems more like a big "maybe". I wonder how many staff are still currently working on the project?
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Yeah, its just the PR rep putting out something cause they do have a job despite the leadership being in the air. Even a PR person can't say more than this is a piece of good news and that's all I can say at this time.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
"After a decade of hype, Dallas-Houston bullet train developer faces a leadership exodus as land acquisition slows"
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30/texas-high-speed-rail-dallas-houston/
I had held out hope, but after this I think it's time I finally put those hopes to rest. Really great reporting from the Tribune here.
I believe we'll get high speed rail someday. It's inevitable if we believe a better Texas is possible, I just don't think Texas Central will have any role in it.
And if a better Texas isn't actually possible, then I guess I'll catch ya'll on the flippity flip. See ya 'round the great lakes region, I hope they have urban development forums
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30/texas-high-speed-rail-dallas-houston/
I had held out hope, but after this I think it's time I finally put those hopes to rest. Really great reporting from the Tribune here.
I believe we'll get high speed rail someday. It's inevitable if we believe a better Texas is possible, I just don't think Texas Central will have any role in it.
And if a better Texas isn't actually possible, then I guess I'll catch ya'll on the flippity flip. See ya 'round the great lakes region, I hope they have urban development forums
- CTroyMathis
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I remember opening either the Morning News or the Times-Herald in the late '80s and there was a small bit about HSR between Dallas and Houston. . .
I saved that article or at least the front page blurb about it somewhere.
It's been 30+ years since then.
I saved that article or at least the front page blurb about it somewhere.
It's been 30+ years since then.
- electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The 80s Texas T-Bone HSR project was an entirely different set of investors not associated with Texas Central that did not exist at that time.
The dream for having HSR between Dallas and Houston keeps arising from the private sector is because it is doable. If it was not, the private sector would have dropped it like a hot potato decades ago and never reinvented it.
But Covid has struck and we have a poor investment economy today. It is going to be difficult for any company to raise private capital on nice to have things when so much is needed for must have things. I wish them good luck.
The dream for having HSR between Dallas and Houston keeps arising from the private sector is because it is doable. If it was not, the private sector would have dropped it like a hot potato decades ago and never reinvented it.
But Covid has struck and we have a poor investment economy today. It is going to be difficult for any company to raise private capital on nice to have things when so much is needed for must have things. I wish them good luck.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The evidence seems to be accumulating that doing it completely privately is probably NOT be doable. It was certainly not doable the first time around back in the early 90s. I was very involved with one of the groups that competed for the franchise from the State of Texas. Our group was upfront and said it would require government assistance. The other group said they could do it without government assistance, won the franchise and, surprise, discovered they would need government assistance after all. And.. Scene!electricron wrote:The 80s Texas T-Bone HSR project was an entirely different set of investors not associated with Texas Central that did not exist at that time.
The dream for having HSR between Dallas and Houston keeps arising from the private sector is because it is doable. If it was not, the private sector would have dropped it like a hot potato decades ago and never reinvented it.
But Covid has struck and we have a poor investment economy today. It is going to be difficult for any company to raise private capital on nice to have things when so much is needed for must have things. I wish them good luck.
So, Texas Central is at least the third group that's taken a good hard look at it, and . . .
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Maybe just wait for a hyperloop project that connects Dallas Austin and Houston in a circulating triangle and build it all at the same time. Seems like this train will never happen and a hyperloop system might be able to connect directly to the urban centers of all three cities.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
It won't be a popular opinion in this state (or this forum I suspect lol), but I think its construction should be entirely publicly funded, much like DFW Airport was jointly funded by the FAA and the cities. It should be a joint effort between Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth (who should have a station as well), kickstarted by federal legislation boosting Amtrak's federal grant appropriations for the explicit purpose of laying high speed rail. Doing it through an established organization like Amtrak would clear some of the legal hurdles from the outset that a new, unproven group would otherwise face.Tucy wrote:The evidence seems to be accumulating that doing it completely privately is probably NOT be doable. It was certainly not doable the first time around back in the early 90s. I was very involved with one of the groups that competed for the franchise from the State of Texas. Our group was upfront and said it would require government assistance. The other group said they could do it without government assistance, won the franchise and, surprise, discovered they would need government assistance after all. And.. Scene!
So, Texas Central is at least the third group that's taken a good hard look at it, and . . .
- electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Amtrak can not raise the $100 Billion they need to put the entire NEC into a state of good order, where are they going to find an additional $20-$30 Billion to build HSR in Texas, and another $60-$90 Bullion to build HSR in California?IcedCowboyCoffee wrote: It won't be a popular opinion in this state (or this forum I suspect lol), but I think its construction should be entirely publicly funded, much like DFW Airport was jointly funded by the FAA and the cities. It should be a joint effort between Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth (who should have a station as well), kickstarted by federal legislation boosting Amtrak's federal grant appropriations for the explicit purpose of laying high speed rail. Doing it through an established organization like Amtrak would clear some of the legal hurdles from the outset that a new, unproven group would otherwise face.
Suggesting Amtrak should take this project over is giving it a guaranteed death sentence.
Golly, Amtrak can not even afford running a single slow train per direction per day between Dallas and Houston today.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
I've seen that most Hyperloop projects have stalled because they can't figure out how to make it turn corners or maintain a vacuum over a long distance. I think right now the only one with momentum is a cargo-only version so people don't get squished when turning but it seems like they will run into the same challenge with the vacuum seals.Cbdallas wrote:Maybe just wait for a hyperloop project that connects Dallas Austin and Houston in a circulating triangle and build it all at the same time. Seems like this train will never happen and a hyperloop system might be able to connect directly to the urban centers of all three cities.
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Critics say the bullet train from Houston to Dallas will never happen, and demand proof of life
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Bullet-train-Texas-Central-Houston-Dallas-proof-17478111.php
- Houston ChronicleCiting various examples, McShan's letter said it appears Texas Central is operating as a shell of a corporation, paying property taxes it owed in eight of the 11 counties where it owns property, but still owing HOA dues for numerous locations and property taxes in Ellis County. It reportedly, McShan said, has lost investment from Japan once considered necessary for the project, and has sold some of the properties it acquired during six years of planning and design.
The company never has applied for any construction permits related to construction of the line, though it has certain federal clearances.
https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/transportation/article/Bullet-train-Texas-Central-Houston-Dallas-proof-17478111.php
The hyperloop is never happening. If a proven transportation method like high speed rail which has 60 years of use, refinement, and tech advances has a difficult chance of getting built here, there's no way something that is still purely theoretical would ever get built within our lifetime.Cbdallas wrote:Maybe just wait for a hyperloop project that connects Dallas Austin and Houston in a circulating triangle and build it all at the same time. Seems like this train will never happen and a hyperloop system might be able to connect directly to the urban centers of all three cities.
Yes, it's a problem of funding. I'm suggesting we fund it.electricron wrote:Amtrak can not raise the $100 Billion they need to put the entire NEC into a state of good order, where are they going to find an additional $20-$30 Billion to build HSR in Texas, and another $60-$90 Bullion to build HSR in California?IcedCowboyCoffee wrote: It won't be a popular opinion in this state (or this forum I suspect lol), but I think its construction should be entirely publicly funded, much like DFW Airport was jointly funded by the FAA and the cities. It should be a joint effort between Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth (who should have a station as well), kickstarted by federal legislation boosting Amtrak's federal grant appropriations for the explicit purpose of laying high speed rail. Doing it through an established organization like Amtrak would clear some of the legal hurdles from the outset that a new, unproven group would otherwise face.
Suggesting Amtrak should take this project over is giving it a guaranteed death sentence.
Golly, Amtrak can not even afford running a single slow train per direction per day between Dallas and Houston today.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The question I have is, why did Japan all of a sudden lose interest? I know what the naysayers have been saying for years now I've read those articles and seen the discussion here, and I am sure they will jump in here and claim they are right, but it seems strange that Japan Railway Co would go this far and disappear unless something massive changed. Did Covid make the demand for cross-state business travel vanish? Did the market for working from home eliminate the business demand? I know the product was never meant as primarily touristy let's run off to Houston or Dallas this weekend. The money was always supposed to come from business travelers, which the Japanese investors saw as a solid bet. Lord knows both administrations on the national level didn't seem to get in the way. The bickering within the state was on a functional level, and the court seemed to be swinging in the railway's favor more times than not, but the international funding was gone before the courts settled the discussion. And I doubt the international investors were discouraged by the lawsuits. You don't invest in a big infrastructure project like a cross-state railway and expect everyone to say OK in unison kumbaya. The wind changed almost like the investors saw a new project somewhere else and moved on, willing to lose their initial investment in owning lots of land across the state.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
At this point, Mathews Southwest should just sell the land to Dallas County so they can move Lew Sterret and Frank Crowley here.
- The_Overdog
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30 ... s-houston/The question I have is, why did Japan all of a sudden lose interest?
All the sudden? Per this article, the idea started in like 2012, and includes a kickoff quote from VP Joe Biden. I think Japan has seen this project has no support at the state level and noped out. It shows that lawsuits and foot dragging by municipalities can kill projects more effectively than just about anything. The recent potential US Federal expenditure should really be treated as a separate effort, perhaps streamlining some aspects for a future investor. Money for risky projects is not finite - and opposition can exploit that.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
^Thanks for the summary
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Why did Japan lose interest? My guess is the same reason that Governor Abbott did - primarily POLITICS. If the politics improve (election is in the past) or a new political champion emerges in Japan, money will be easier to find.The_Overdog wrote:https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30 ... s-houston/The question I have is, why did Japan all of a sudden lose interest?
All the sudden? Per this article, the idea started in like 2012, and includes a kickoff quote from VP Joe Biden. I think Japan has seen this project has no support at the state level and noped out. It shows that lawsuits and foot dragging by municipalities can kill projects more effectively than just about anything. The recent potential US Federal expenditure should really be treated as a separate effort, perhaps streamlining some aspects for a future investor. Money for risky projects is not finite - and opposition can exploit that.
- MC_ScattCat
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Apparently TXDOT wants to add rail service between the TX triangle cities. So instead of letting a privately funded efficient rail line solve this issue we will get a publicly funded Amtrak at the mercy of a freight train. I want to make a political joke here but I'll bite my tongue.
- IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
A starved public sector having to step in after the private sector failed to materialize anything for forty years, there is definitely a joke in there somewhere lol
Most of Amtrak sucks because it's forced to share its lines with freight. It's forced to share lines with freight because it doesn't have the funding to run its own lines. It doesn't have the funding to run its own lines because we expect it to price their tickets competitively with air travel and operate on the pittance we give it each year. There's not any room for massive expansion in those budgets since it's never been profitable during its entire existence and still has an aging fleet to replace.
Amtrak is simply unable to compete with car and air travel. Nonetheless, having good inter-regional rail is in our public best interest. So we need to fund it. We shouldn't wait and trust that private money will eventually walk into an uncertain and unprofitable industry where the upfront infrastructure cost is massive. If Amtrak weren't government owned, what kind of intercity rail network would we have today? Anything at all? Probably not. Maybe one or two lines in the northeast and that's it. Half a century of the country having its eyes and purses open only for highway and sprawl expansion will do that. Amtrak certainly hasn't been any competitive barrier to private companies stepping into the fray during all this time.
But if Amtrak priced their tickets high enough to build up their coffers for HSR expansions then no one would ride Amtrak. Air/car would be considerably cheaper in that scenario and Amtrak comparatively sucks. And Amtrak sucks because it's forced to share its lines with freight, and it's forced to share lines with freight because it doesn't have the funding to run its own lines, and it doesn't have the funding to run its--etc etc yall know.
The upfront infrastructure cost is clearly too much of a risk for the private sector if we can't get new rail built between two massive population centers on such a short and amenable section of land as Dallas to Houston.
At the end of the day what I want is a publicly funded and operated HSR track, but I'm surprised we don't at the bare minimum facilitate building tracks with public funds through Amtrak and have Amtrak lease the tracks and stations to private rail companies whose only upfront cost would be to provide their own fleet. Different rail companies would compete against each other to operate different parts of the Texas triangle (Like for example, sure you could go straight from Dallas to Houston, but maybe the Dallas to Austin to Houston route has a nicer train or it has cheaper fare and would add only a short amount to the total travel time).
Besides, the only way private companies would finally get involved and actually move dirt is if we're subsidizing them with an arm and leg, so we might as well keep our stake in it and own the tracks and stations outright--Just as the cities own DFW airport and lease it to American.
I'm bummed we can't seem to get ANYTHING, but I'll count my blessing in this case and feel grateful we were spared from having a rail line that stopped in the middle of a suburban parking lot in Houston.
Most of Amtrak sucks because it's forced to share its lines with freight. It's forced to share lines with freight because it doesn't have the funding to run its own lines. It doesn't have the funding to run its own lines because we expect it to price their tickets competitively with air travel and operate on the pittance we give it each year. There's not any room for massive expansion in those budgets since it's never been profitable during its entire existence and still has an aging fleet to replace.
Amtrak is simply unable to compete with car and air travel. Nonetheless, having good inter-regional rail is in our public best interest. So we need to fund it. We shouldn't wait and trust that private money will eventually walk into an uncertain and unprofitable industry where the upfront infrastructure cost is massive. If Amtrak weren't government owned, what kind of intercity rail network would we have today? Anything at all? Probably not. Maybe one or two lines in the northeast and that's it. Half a century of the country having its eyes and purses open only for highway and sprawl expansion will do that. Amtrak certainly hasn't been any competitive barrier to private companies stepping into the fray during all this time.
But if Amtrak priced their tickets high enough to build up their coffers for HSR expansions then no one would ride Amtrak. Air/car would be considerably cheaper in that scenario and Amtrak comparatively sucks. And Amtrak sucks because it's forced to share its lines with freight, and it's forced to share lines with freight because it doesn't have the funding to run its own lines, and it doesn't have the funding to run its--etc etc yall know.
The upfront infrastructure cost is clearly too much of a risk for the private sector if we can't get new rail built between two massive population centers on such a short and amenable section of land as Dallas to Houston.
At the end of the day what I want is a publicly funded and operated HSR track, but I'm surprised we don't at the bare minimum facilitate building tracks with public funds through Amtrak and have Amtrak lease the tracks and stations to private rail companies whose only upfront cost would be to provide their own fleet. Different rail companies would compete against each other to operate different parts of the Texas triangle (Like for example, sure you could go straight from Dallas to Houston, but maybe the Dallas to Austin to Houston route has a nicer train or it has cheaper fare and would add only a short amount to the total travel time).
Besides, the only way private companies would finally get involved and actually move dirt is if we're subsidizing them with an arm and leg, so we might as well keep our stake in it and own the tracks and stations outright--Just as the cities own DFW airport and lease it to American.
I'm bummed we can't seem to get ANYTHING, but I'll count my blessing in this case and feel grateful we were spared from having a rail line that stopped in the middle of a suburban parking lot in Houston.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
So by the tone of the latest thread, this project appears dead.
I am not even mad at the rural land owners. If one go to the opposition Facebook page, their main complaint was the condescending attitude of Texas Central. What did Texas Rail in was no funding. If you show up to the table to negotiate and buy land you better have something in the bank. Apparently Texas Central only had a cool looking website and a projected Houston station closer to Katy than Downtown. I kid, I kid.
I am not even mad at the rural land owners. If one go to the opposition Facebook page, their main complaint was the condescending attitude of Texas Central. What did Texas Rail in was no funding. If you show up to the table to negotiate and buy land you better have something in the bank. Apparently Texas Central only had a cool looking website and a projected Houston station closer to Katy than Downtown. I kid, I kid.
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Rail company left 'dysfunctional' California amid faltering ‘bullet train’ efforts
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... llet-train
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... llet-train
“There were so many things that went wrong,” SNCF Project Manager Dan McNamara told the New York Times. “SNCF was very angry. They told the state they were leaving for North Africa, which was less politically dysfunctional. They went to Morocco and helped them build a rail system.”
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
A Houston delegation on a trade mission to Japan got a tour and a ride on the Bullet Train.
https://www.houstontx.gov/mayor/press/2 ... -ride.html
https://www.houstontx.gov/mayor/press/2 ... -ride.html
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Is the Houston delegation trying to get the JNR to bankroll the Texas project?
- electricron
- Posts: 392
- Joined: 29 Oct 2016 11:07
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
The City of Houston is in no better financial shape as the City of Dallas. Neither can afford to build and operate HSR trains. But they can help reduce the costs of building new train stations in their cities, most likely with a reduced property tax and other economic grants.longhorn wrote:Is the Houston delegation trying to get the JNR to bankroll the Texas project?
The State of Texas, short of changing existing law, can not help fund any trains.
- The_Overdog
- Posts: 721
- Joined: 21 Oct 2016 14:55
Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail
Apparently Amtrack is partnering with Texas Central on advance planning and environmental remediation work required, as part of a potential partnership, on the Dallas to Houston high speed rail line.
https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... 16/photo/1
https://twitter.com/ByERussell/status/1 ... 16/photo/1