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DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

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dzh
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby dzh » 21 Oct 2019 13:54

LongonBigD wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.


If it were truly the other way around, I’m pretty sure we’d be in the same predicament.

Imagine if the proposed HSR were from OKC to Dallas, who exactly would be pressing to shove that thing through North Dallas, Preston Hollow, University Park, and finally Highland Park to get downtown?



I bet they would figure out a way around those wealthy enclaves haha

And in the event they did have to pass through, I'm sure they would create an underground route. Which could actually end up being awesome if they were to build a rapid transit route along (this city really needs rapid transit instead of this weird commuter light-rail system) the HSR tunnel. But anyways, just pipe dreams there. I'm sure the future Dallas to OKC route we'll likely go up Stemmons or some other "less disruptive" alternative.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 22 Oct 2019 11:48

electricron wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Glad to see this moving along but still painfull that it will only take you to the perimeter of Houston and not directly downtown.


I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.

The problem with a downtown Houston train station was a lack of a great site. The best site for a railroad station was torn down a decade ago for the new baseball park. Go Astros, let's hope they win the Series again.

The EIS studied two other locations nearer downtown, one on the north side of Buffalo Bayou and the other location at the present Amtrak train station site. The north site is set for developing into public housing complexes, and the existing Amtrak site is hemmed in without much room for station expansion. Both are terrible sites for a modern HSR train station - and both required running elevated viaduct through residential and hospital neighborhoods. There was just too many negatives for a new downtown Houston HSR station - unlike the approaches into downtown Dallas from the south.
Business travelers will be the bread and butter customers the HSR line will need to operate profitably every day. As long as the train station is closer to downtown Houston than the two Houston airports, it should not have any problems competing with them.


The problem was not with finding a good site. There were/are several workable sites. The problem was with the feasibility of constructing a rail line along the route from the northwest into downtown Houston. From the "last-mile analysis: "For the Houston UC Alternatives, the analysis suggests that Alternative B (a terminus located at US 290/IH-610) is rated the highest when considering cost, schedule, environmental, land use, engineering, and constructability concerns associated with an alignment constructed into Downtown Houston." http://www.texascentralhighspeedrail.com/resources/Last-Mile-Analysis_20150327_ISSUE.pdf
Last edited by Tucy on 23 Oct 2019 10:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Oct 2019 10:55

electricron wrote:
itsjrd1964 wrote:
Cbdallas wrote:Glad to see this moving along but still painfull that it will only take you to the perimeter of Houston and not directly downtown.


I wonder if there is any chance that there could be a future extension from the perimeter to downtown. I'm sure if it was the other way around, there would many prominent local pompom-shakers and developers chomping at the bit here to figure out a way for an extension the rest of the way to downtown Dallas.

The problem with a downtown Houston train station was a lack of a great site. The best site for a railroad station was torn down a decade ago for the new baseball park. Go Astros, let's hope they win the Series again.

The EIS studied two other locations nearer downtown, one on the north side of Buffalo Bayou and the other location at the present Amtrak train station site. The north site is set for developing into public housing complexes, and the existing Amtrak site is hemmed in without much room for station expansion. Both are terrible sites for a modern HSR train station - and both required running elevated viaduct through residential and hospital neighborhoods. There was just too many negatives for a new downtown Houston HSR station - unlike the approaches into downtown Dallas from the south.
Business travelers will be the bread and butter customers the HSR line will need to operate profitably every day. As long as the train station is closer to downtown Houston than the two Houston airports, it should not have any problems competing with them.


In my conversations with Texas Central they said the issue with going into downtown Houston was not a location downtown but rather the cost of going into the central city. I am no expert on Houston terrain except that I know its a swamp but the cost per mile from where they currently end the line into downtown goes up so much it makes the entire project less feasible. It's like 100,000 million per mile or something like that. It was an outrageous number.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 23 Oct 2019 11:10

I know it has already been mentioned that there would be similar challenges in a line coming from OKC into Dallas. But, I also question if it would even be desired to have such a line terminate in the CBD when so much of our business population (the demographic targeted by HSR) in the norther suburbs. It would be impractical to take a slow Light Rail line 44 minutes south, just to turn around on an HSR route going north. A secondary station in the north would likely be required... And with such proximity and density along the stretch, it may not make financial sense for the gap in between each station to be high speed anyway.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 23 Oct 2019 13:26

I could see the OKC line going into FW first, then along 30 some other way without any degradation in its effectiveness.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 23 Oct 2019 13:33

Doesn't seem to be enough people and/or business travel from all of Oklahoma let alone OKC to get the for-profit HSR trains looking that way. Connecting San Antonio and Austin to Dallas, for sure.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 23 Oct 2019 13:36

Same... I was just speaking from the standpoint of difficulty of finding space
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Oct 2019 14:57

tamtagon wrote:Doesn't seem to be enough people and/or business travel from all of Oklahoma let alone OKC to get the for-profit HSR trains looking that way. Connecting San Antonio and Austin to Dallas, for sure.


Brings up another point that came directly from Texas Central. The reason they picked Dallas and Houston is because the two cities on either end of the line are the minimum sized metros required to make the line profitable, and the land between the two cities is basically flat. If that's true then OKC isn't feasible and neither is Fort Worth. Austin is probably too small at this point. Another point was the Dallas to FW line that everybody wants. That is not in Texas Centrals plans so that has to be built and paid for by somebody else and Texas Central had no plans to operate that line if it was built.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 20 Nov 2019 16:07

New renderings of the three HSR stations are out today:

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Newes ... 35412.html

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 20 Nov 2019 16:33

I like these better!

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 20 Nov 2019 16:36

The entrance of the station in Dallas. The goal is to have travelers from the street to the train in as little as 45 seconds.


Looks good to me, and I like this tidbit. I'm wondering how much parking they plan to have in this thing because I know early renderings lead me to believe it would be a lot.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 20 Nov 2019 18:34

So this is the "iconic" design we were promised? ..... Yawn.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 20 Nov 2019 20:53

...maybe the iconic design will come with the adjoining hotel

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Nov 2019 09:55

Yeah honestly if they start construction of the high-speed rail project they are likely to see things like hotels and such announced in short order. They are spending private investment here to fund a basic line if you will. If they can prove they can actually start building developers and partners are more likely.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 21 Nov 2019 10:48

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Yeah honestly if they start construction of the high-speed rail project they are likely to see things like hotels and such announced in short order. They are spending private investment here to fund a basic line if you will. If they can prove they can actually start building developers and partners are more likely.


That's what I'm most excited to see. I'm so glad we were lucky enough to get the Dallas station so close to Downtown, because that area is going to explode once this thing gets going.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 21 Nov 2019 16:06

Texas High-Speed Train Is ‘Shovel Ready'

https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Texas ... 82232.html

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 23 Nov 2019 14:27

Texas Central enters new agreement for high-speed rail project

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... speed.html

The developer seeking to connect Houston to North Texas by high-speed rail has added a new partner.

Texas Central announced Thursday that it has signed an early works agreement with train system installation firm Mass. Electric Construction Co. Through the end of the year, both companies plan to outline the scope of the future agreement, including a construction schedule and cost of work. The agreement is set to be signed later this year.

Mass. Electric, a subsidiary of Kiewit Corp., will be installing the core system, signaling and communication equipment, as well as critical safety elements for Texas Central.

The core system is also a key component of Central Japan Railway's Tokaido Shinkansen N700S technology. The Shinkansen N700S train system is known as the world’s safest mass transit system and serves as a foundation that Texas Central is basing its project on.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 02 Jan 2020 14:18

Texas Central twitter page says construction starts Q3

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby DPatel304 » 02 Jan 2020 14:23

I'm highly skeptical, but I'm at least glad that there does seem to be constant updates/talks about this project, and that it's not something that has gone completely quiet.

Link for those who are wondering:
https://twitter.com/TexasCentral/status ... 6170247171

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 31 Jan 2020 14:20

Rural Texas counties to hold public hearing on Dallas to Houston high-speed rail project

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... s_headline

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby OrangeMike » 03 Feb 2020 21:13

”Texas will travel at high speed with Made in Italy“
https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/texas-viagger-ad-alta-velocit-col-made-italy-1813439.html

Google Translate wrote:A justly ambitious project that aims to revolutionize the lives and habits of Texans….


This article has quite the unique perspective on the project and some nice history of what the U.S. once achieved.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby lakewoodhobo » 18 Feb 2020 10:50

First Look at the interior layout of the Texas High-Speed Train
https://www.texascentral.com/posts/mile ... peed-train

First-Class comfort, with even more space:

•WIDE aisles: 32” (wider than a regional jet)
•Ample space: 32” of legroom and 41” seat pitch (nearly a foot of total added space compared to flying first-class)
•All seats recline, optimized to offer best recline without disturbing the passenger in rear
•And, no seatbelts!

Image

Image


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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby TNWE » 19 Feb 2020 10:19

lakewoodhobo wrote:First Look at the interior layout of the Texas High-Speed Train
https://www.texascentral.com/posts/mile ... peed-train

First-Class comfort, with even more space:

•WIDE aisles: 32” (wider than a regional jet)
•Ample space: 32” of legroom and 41” seat pitch (nearly a foot of total added space compared to flying first-class)
•All seats recline, optimized to offer best recline without disturbing the passenger in rear
•And, no seatbelts!

Image

Image



"No Seatbelts!" seems like a weird thing to tout - obviously they're not required for trains in the US, but it seems like something else the anti-HSR crowd will latch onto in a desperate attempt to throw up another roadblock.

As far as the seat layouts, its not all that different from existing Amtrak economy seats - 2x2 with ample legroom and deep recline. I'm curious if TCR will announce a first class option - most European operators have it, but their economy product is much less spacious.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby lakewoodhobo » 19 Feb 2020 10:38

One more thing in that press release was this paragraph on service animals.

ACCOMMODATING SERVICE ANIMALS: THEY HAVE A JOB TO DO, WE WANT TO HELP

The Texas high-speed train will be welcoming and accommodating to passengers with service animals. Requirements are being reviewed closely to understand what is needed for the best accommodation for both the service animals and riders of the train.

On the train, the leg room provided for most seats will allow those with service animals to select a variety of seating, not just in a bulkhead row. Texas Central recognizes the importance of having service animals accompany persons with disabilities, and we look forward to being your choice to travel.


Accommodating service animals is a no-brainer, but I wonder if Texas Central could benefit as a competitor of air travel by accommodating non-service animals as well. I get that they're mainly banking on weekday business trips, but weekend trips between Dallas and Houston could attract riders if they can bring their dogs with them. Then again, maybe they're counting on labeling all pets service animals and this is just a wink and a nod to people wondering how they can get their yappy Chihuahua certified.

TNWE wrote:"No Seatbelts!" seems like a weird thing to tout - obviously they're not required for trains in the US, but it seems like something else the anti-HSR crowd will latch onto in a desperate attempt to throw up another roadblock.


But it would make them look like toothless hillbillies when the Shinkansen has carried 10 billion passengers over 50 years with no need for a seatbelt.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 19 Feb 2020 14:18

Miniature horses?
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Redblock » 20 Feb 2020 00:34

TNWE wrote:
lakewoodhobo wrote:First Look at the interior layout of the Texas High-Speed Train
https://www.texascentral.com/posts/mile ... peed-train

First-Class comfort, with even more space:

•WIDE aisles: 32” (wider than a regional jet)
•Ample space: 32” of legroom and 41” seat pitch (nearly a foot of total added space compared to flying first-class)
•All seats recline, optimized to offer best recline without disturbing the passenger in rear
•And, no seatbelts!

Image

Image



"No Seatbelts!" seems like a weird thing to tout - obviously they're not required for trains in the US, but it seems like something else the anti-HSR crowd will latch onto in a desperate attempt to throw up another roadblock.

As far as the seat layouts, its not all that different from existing Amtrak economy seats - 2x2 with ample legroom and deep recline. I'm curious if TCR will announce a first class option - most European operators have it, but their economy product is much less spacious.


The D Magazine article linked below is more detailed. It includes a diagram of a full 8 car train. This shows that 2 of the cars are set up with 2+1 seating. These will probably be labeled first class.

https://www.dmagazine.com/business-econ ... interiors/

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 20 Feb 2020 13:52

Once one of these things is operational, people will be like....we need more of these. Planes suck!

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 20 Feb 2020 14:14

Tnexster wrote:Once one of these things is operational, people will be like....we need more of these. Planes suck!


No doubt! I spent two weeks riding Amtrak around the country. Even their old beat up trains are several magnitudes superior to airplane travel (other than being sloooooow). You could never spend 1/10th that time on an airplane without going mad.
This train will be a huuuuge step above anything we have ridden here. I absolutely cannot wait!
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 20 Feb 2020 18:42

Tnexster wrote:Once one of these things is operational, people will be like....we need more of these. Planes suck!

This is the dream. I want to take these everywhere!
That might put buc-ee's out of business though. :lol:

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby quixomniac » 20 Feb 2020 20:34

THRILLHO wrote:
Tnexster wrote:Once one of these things is operational, people will be like....we need more of these. Planes suck!

This is the dream. I want to take these everywhere!
That might put buc-ee's out of business though. :lol:


This might motivate Buc-ee's build them right next to the stations!!!

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 20 Feb 2020 21:42

It's just too bad we couldn't get the whole triangle completed at one time.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby lakewoodhobo » 21 Feb 2020 07:56

Renfe inks $6 bn deal to build first high-speed train in US
http://www.rfi.fr/en/wires/20200220-ren ... d-train-us

For Renfe, the design and construction phase of the contract, which will run to 2026, is worth some $311 million, while the operation and maintenance of the line between 2026 and 2042 will bring in some $5.6 billion.


Probably a minor update to a 2018 story where Renfe was first mentioned as a partner. Still good to see some details start to emerge.

Brings back memories from my first and only time as a Renfe customer.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 21 Feb 2020 14:25

quixomniac wrote:This might motivate Buc-ee's build them right next to the stations!!!

Some train lines in Japan have cute mascots. Buc-ee's could turn everyone's favorite Texas roadtrip beaver into the de facto mascot of Texas train travel as well if they really wanted!

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 21 Feb 2020 14:53

The Austin route would be hard without a Czech Bakery stop. Course if they partner to provide that on the train route as a promotional tool I will also be happy. It's just the kind of thing the naysayers will latch on to if an Austin route happens. "You see you killed the local culture of the Czech Stop Bakery just so you could speed past at a billion hours per second..."

No one likes change though and you know horsewhips and a horse-drawn carriage was once seen as a classic and how dare you to replace them with cars. The jobs lost from the buggy whips alone!
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 21 Feb 2020 15:07

That's true, I would miss Czech Stop...

Well any Austin route I expect to have a stop in Waco. Maybe the King and Queen of Waco would give them a bakery space in whatever development they're sure to build next to this hypothetical station lol

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 21 Feb 2020 23:12

THRILLHO wrote:That's true, I would miss Czech Stop...

Well any Austin route I expect to have a stop in Waco. Maybe the King and Queen of Waco would give them a bakery space in whatever development they're sure to build next to this hypothetical station lol


Well, you don't have to take the train and quite frankly if the trains were running full tilt it would make the drive much more pleasant for those that chose that way instead.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 22 Feb 2020 17:44

If the trains are a hit. I hope dallas really double downs in inner city mass transit.. I liked the concept of the extended streetcar system drawn up by Patrick Kennedy.

https://www.dmagazine.com/frontburner/2 ... streetcar/

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 25 Feb 2020 11:07

Are you in favor of the proposed high-speed rail project between Dallas and Houston?

https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/puls ... s_headline

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby THRILLHO » 25 Feb 2020 11:53

3200 responses to that poll at the moment and 60% are not in favor? That's a little baffling. Unless you have land that it passes directly through, what's the argument against it?

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby texasstar » 25 Feb 2020 13:25

That really is baffling. Tried to see comments, but there doesn't appear to be any.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 25 Feb 2020 15:19

I suspect some ballot box stuffing. When I checked it several days ago it was 90/10 on the for side.

Unless you have land that it passes directly through, what's the argument against it?


If the project fails someone (i.e. the state) is going to be on the hook for a bunch of clean-up. You can't just leave dozens of abandoned bridges and hundreds of miles of electrical lines crossing roads, highways and rivers forever.

Personally, I don't care of they build it or not. It won't have any effect on me either way. I suspect this will end up like Iridium. The original developers will lose everything, then someone else will buy it for five cents on the dollar and make it work. But the state should require a billion dollar bond up front in case they need to clean up the mess.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 25 Feb 2020 15:35

Airline lobby's are probably fighting this pretty hard behind the scenes. I would love to have it done and another one to triangulate Austin and San Antonio as well. Those 4 cities are all in the same state and high population centers imagine if Texas actually led the nation on this.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 25 Feb 2020 20:59

Cbdallas wrote:Airline lobby's are probably fighting this pretty hard behind the scenes. I would love to have it done and another one to triangulate Austin and San Antonio as well. Those 4 cities are all in the same state and high population centers imagine if Texas actually led the nation on this.


Sounds great, although according to them they need a population center on both ends of a HSR line to be around 5 million which made Dallas and Houston perfect. Austin comes in at less than half of that number which again, according to Texas Central made that option difficult to justify. Technically it also makes FW difficult to justify.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby exelone31 » 26 Feb 2020 09:17

What if the state came out and said they wanted to build a highway through the exact same space? Would there be all this hand-wringing?

I don't get why a much more efficient method of transportation is having to fight through so much to get done.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Feb 2020 11:53

^the argument to your question could simply be a highway would have multiple on and off-ramps benefiting the smaller areas it passes through. Small towns never expanded in the wild west era because the trains never connected them to the wider world because at the end of the day stations had to be picked for strategic advantage and payoffs. In this case, High-Speed Rail doesn't work stopping at multiple stops so either small-town America accepts the highway access they have won't disappear just because a high-speed rail passes them by or bury ourselves in the past so small-town America can feel happy they are forcing everyone to use cars or planes. It's kind of funny though planes made the car outmoded since planes fly so high small-town America wasn't able to stop that either but they could have made a similar stink in many ways.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 26 Feb 2020 13:37

exelone31 wrote:What if the state came out and said they wanted to build a highway through the exact same space? Would there be all this hand-wringing?


To be honest, the answer to your question is almost certainly "yes."

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby muncien » 26 Feb 2020 14:20

Hannibal Lecter wrote:I suspect some ballot box stuffing. When I checked it several days ago it was 90/10 on the for side.


I agree... It was 90-10 in FAVOR when I looked as well. Very weird.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 26 Feb 2020 14:46

Southwest and American AA sent out memos to all employees to go online and vote against.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 26 Feb 2020 15:30

It's flipped to 64-36 in favor

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whit5125
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby whit5125 » 26 Feb 2020 15:36

Cbdallas wrote:Southwest and American AA sent out memos to all employees to go online and vote against.

Do you have proof of that? Would love to be able to share that and show how BS the airline industry is when trying to kill this.

I hope in 20 years this hurts Southwest and american hard, especially Southwest even if I dont like American any more. Dont care if you are a hometown company, we need more future forms.of mass transit.


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