DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

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electricron
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 31 Dec 2021 21:20

I would feel much better about the latest news if it was posted on Texas Central's web site, but as I am writing this response it is not there.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 05 Jan 2022 15:41

electricron wrote:I would feel much better about the latest news if it was posted on Texas Central's web site, but as I am writing this response it is not there.


That website has been basically dead for two years. But then they also have very little staff around, anybody that kept up with that was let go almost two years ago.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby undefinedprocess » 20 Mar 2022 22:27

Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...

Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.

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mhainli
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby mhainli » 03 Apr 2022 19:14

undefinedprocess wrote:Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...

Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.


I heard that the Texas Supreme Court requested the state of Texas weigh in on the HSR, etc. Basically the State’s position was NOT in support of the project anymore, so just one more reason that the project may never get built. It’s unfortunate IMHO but we’ll see what the TSC says. If the ruling is that Texas Central is not a RR and cannot use eminent domain then it spells doom for almost any other similar rail or privatized hyper loop project in the future..

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undefinedprocess
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby undefinedprocess » 03 Apr 2022 21:12

mhainli wrote:
undefinedprocess wrote:Hey forum friends, we've been talking a lot about this on the Discord since the forum went down for 80+% of people in November. You lucky 10-20% who didn't have your cache flushed and could still access the forum, well... I'm jealous. But now, forum's up again and we're back! With that being said...

Since it's been such a long time since "everyone" had access to the forum and been a decent amount of time since this thread has had any posts (and much has happened in the courts), wanted to bump this to start the conversation back up. Many of you have had unique perspectives on this project in the past, so with all of the latest developments around this thing (and while we wait for the TX Supreme Court), I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on the future of the Dallas to Houston HSR.


I heard that the Texas Supreme Court requested the state of Texas weigh in on the HSR, etc. Basically the State’s position was NOT in support of the project anymore, so just one more reason that the project may never get built. It’s unfortunate IMHO but we’ll see what the TSC says. If the ruling is that Texas Central is not a RR and cannot use eminent domain then it spells doom for almost any other similar rail or privatized hyper loop project in the future..

Yeah, and the news coming out a day or two ago about Texas Central not paying taxes... Not looking too good. Wonder if Brightline could do something. They seem to have all of their shit together in multiple states.

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 04 Apr 2022 11:16

Do we have a general idea when the Texas supreme court will put out their ruling on this?? I've been waiting on pins and needles...

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longhorn
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby longhorn » 15 Apr 2022 21:56

The ruling so be this summer.

TC needs to put up (show financing) or shut up (let another company take the idea).

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby undefinedprocess » 17 Apr 2022 22:59

longhorn wrote:TC needs to put up (show financing) or shut up (let another company take the idea).

Yup. I've pretty much lost faith in them now with the whole tax debacle. Time to let someone else step in and take the reins.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby ajderry2017 » 13 Jun 2022 23:24

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/carlosfa ... um=ios_app

(From discord) looks like CEO of Texas central is stepping down. This is the end fellas :cry:

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Cbdallas
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 14 Jun 2022 09:02

Sad.

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Triggerman
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Triggerman » 15 Jun 2022 20:57

really sad

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 16 Jun 2022 11:38

Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?

Edit: Just noticed I already asked this :lol:

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Addison » 16 Jun 2022 17:29

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?

Edit: Just noticed I already asked this :lol:


Does it really matter at this point?

The CEO has already thrown in the towel.

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Cbdallas
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 17 Jun 2022 10:27

I am afraid the only High Speed rail we are ever going to experience is along our travels to Europe or Asia.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby The_Overdog » 17 Jun 2022 15:21

3 thoughts:

1) This shows exactly why railroad infrastructure in the US is so expensive- gigantic front end costs that other countries don't deal with. It'd be interesting to tally how much money they have spent to this point with little to show for it, maybe beyond a less-than completely contiguous rail corridor they are in tax arrears for. Other countries, like China, have built entire runs just since this has been proposed.

2) We all laugh, but Brightline in Florida is under construction, about to open, and has plans for a 300 mile run to Orlando. So maybe a Ft Worth to Dallas as a lower speed segment that would have solved lots of problems (ie: would be a railroad) and shown promise would not have been a terrible idea in hindsight.

3) Per Community Impact:
"Aguilar testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Transportation Committee in May 2021 and its subcommittee on railroads, where he suggested the railroad could use funds from the 1998 House Resolution 2, which includes a program that guarantees federal loans of up to $3.5 billion for projects.
H-GAC transportation officials confirmed to Community Impact Newspaper that the project is on the organization’s 2023-26 Transportation Improvement Plans, where its current entry lists it receiving $3.3 billion in local funds."

So I'm not sure if the $3.3 billion is matching funds or straight cash-money, but maybe it is just temporarily on-hold, and another CEO can shepherd it beyond. That's just me being ridiculously optimistic.

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IcedCowboyCoffee
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 17 Jun 2022 15:40

Addison wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?

Edit: Just noticed I already asked this :lol:


Does it really matter at this point?

The CEO has already thrown in the towel.

Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.

Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 17 Jun 2022 16:10

The_Overdog wrote:3 thoughts:

1) This shows exactly why railroad infrastructure in the US is so expensive- gigantic front end costs that other countries don't deal with. It'd be interesting to tally how much money they have spent to this point with little to show for it, maybe beyond a less-than completely contiguous rail corridor they are in tax arrears for. Other countries, like China, have built entire runs just since this has been proposed.

2) We all laugh, but Brightline in Florida is under construction, about to open, and has plans for a 300 mile run to Orlando. So maybe a Ft Worth to Dallas as a lower speed segment that would have solved lots of problems (ie: would be a railroad) and shown promise would not have been a terrible idea in hindsight.

3) Per Community Impact:
"Aguilar testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Transportation Committee in May 2021 and its subcommittee on railroads, where he suggested the railroad could use funds from the 1998 House Resolution 2, which includes a program that guarantees federal loans of up to $3.5 billion for projects.
H-GAC transportation officials confirmed to Community Impact Newspaper that the project is on the organization’s 2023-26 Transportation Improvement Plans, where its current entry lists it receiving $3.3 billion in local funds."

So I'm not sure if the $3.3 billion is matching funds or straight cash-money, but maybe it is just temporarily on-hold, and another CEO can shepherd it beyond. That's just me being ridiculously optimistic.


As it says in your quoted language, the proposed federal money was to be a loan.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Addison » 17 Jun 2022 16:12

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:
Addison wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Any idea when the state supreme court is expected to hand down its ruling on this?

Edit: Just noticed I already asked this :lol:


Does it really matter at this point?

The CEO has already thrown in the towel.

Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.

Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.


Fair enough.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby mhainli » 24 Jun 2022 15:32

Addison wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:
Addison wrote:
Does it really matter at this point?

The CEO has already thrown in the towel.

Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.

Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.


Fair enough.


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.html

Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby tamtagon » 24 Jun 2022 18:36

So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Addison » 24 Jun 2022 19:27

mhainli wrote:
Addison wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.

Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.


Fair enough.


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.html

Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..


Yep, saw that in the discord.

I guess all hope isn't lost then...

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby longhorn » 24 Jun 2022 21:17

mhainli wrote:
Addison wrote:
IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:Whatever the ruling is it sets a precedent that any future efforts will need to be cognizant of.

Besides, personally I'm not ready to abandon all hope just yet.


Fair enough.


https://www.bizjournals.com/dallas/news ... omain.html

Looks like the Texas Supreme Court has granted the use of Eminent Domain for this project. We’ll see what this means long term..


Time to show the 30 Billion dollars financing.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 22 Jul 2022 15:19

tamtagon wrote:So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.


Everything seems pretty quiet, and their web page is never updated anymore. Maybe they just need someone to turn out the lights.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 22 Jul 2022 15:33

Tnexster wrote:
tamtagon wrote:So, maybe the first CEO was simply intended to get the thing through most of the red tape, and the next CEO will be the one who gets it built. Then another change, a CEO geared to operate the line.


Everything seems pretty quiet, and their web page is never updated anymore. Maybe they just need someone to turn out the lights.

This is their most recent update:
texascentral1.jpg

https://twitter.com/TexasCentral/status/1545523117245734915
So, time will tell. I'll start getting pessimistic if we don't hear anything within the next year as they figure out (or fail to figure out) this transition.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 22 Jul 2022 15:43

The problem is they do not have a leader, so they are rudderless. Will anyone sign on, or has the lobbying finally beat this project into submission. You have to have a potential CEO willing to fight with the airlines and rural politicians who have decided it's the second coming of satan to have high-speed rail in Texas.
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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby mhainli » 23 Jul 2022 21:56

This project also needs a new political champion. The governor has backed away from it in recent months. Perhaps when the November election is over he can stop worrying about his previous support of the project becoming a risky political issue.

It’s good to finally get a statement from Texas Central referring to the Texas Supreme Court ruling granting right of eminent domain. Now getting the right leader and the financial backing…

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tnexster » 25 Jul 2022 11:14

I don't get a warm fuzzy feeling from that press release. Seems more like a big "maybe". I wonder how many staff are still currently working on the project?

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 26 Jul 2022 15:15

Yeah, its just the PR rep putting out something cause they do have a job despite the leadership being in the air. Even a PR person can't say more than this is a piece of good news and that's all I can say at this time.
“Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell”

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 30 Aug 2022 13:29

"After a decade of hype, Dallas-Houston bullet train developer faces a leadership exodus as land acquisition slows"
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/30/texas-high-speed-rail-dallas-houston/

I had held out hope, but after this I think it's time I finally put those hopes to rest. Really great reporting from the Tribune here.

I believe we'll get high speed rail someday. It's inevitable if we believe a better Texas is possible, I just don't think Texas Central will have any role in it.
And if a better Texas isn't actually possible, then I guess I'll catch ya'll on the flippity flip. See ya 'round the great lakes region, I hope they have urban development forums :lol:

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby CTroyMathis » 30 Aug 2022 13:42

I remember opening either the Morning News or the Times-Herald in the late '80s and there was a small bit about HSR between Dallas and Houston. . .

I saved that article or at least the front page blurb about it somewhere.

It's been 30+ years since then.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 30 Aug 2022 14:57

The 80s Texas T-Bone HSR project was an entirely different set of investors not associated with Texas Central that did not exist at that time.
The dream for having HSR between Dallas and Houston keeps arising from the private sector is because it is doable. If it was not, the private sector would have dropped it like a hot potato decades ago and never reinvented it.
But Covid has struck and we have a poor investment economy today. It is going to be difficult for any company to raise private capital on nice to have things when so much is needed for must have things. I wish them good luck.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Tucy » 30 Aug 2022 15:22

electricron wrote:The 80s Texas T-Bone HSR project was an entirely different set of investors not associated with Texas Central that did not exist at that time.
The dream for having HSR between Dallas and Houston keeps arising from the private sector is because it is doable. If it was not, the private sector would have dropped it like a hot potato decades ago and never reinvented it.
But Covid has struck and we have a poor investment economy today. It is going to be difficult for any company to raise private capital on nice to have things when so much is needed for must have things. I wish them good luck.


The evidence seems to be accumulating that doing it completely privately is probably NOT be doable. It was certainly not doable the first time around back in the early 90s. I was very involved with one of the groups that competed for the franchise from the State of Texas. Our group was upfront and said it would require government assistance. The other group said they could do it without government assistance, won the franchise and, surprise, discovered they would need government assistance after all. And.. Scene!

So, Texas Central is at least the third group that's taken a good hard look at it, and . . .

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby Cbdallas » 31 Aug 2022 11:58

Maybe just wait for a hyperloop project that connects Dallas Austin and Houston in a circulating triangle and build it all at the same time. Seems like this train will never happen and a hyperloop system might be able to connect directly to the urban centers of all three cities.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby IcedCowboyCoffee » 31 Aug 2022 13:20

Tucy wrote:The evidence seems to be accumulating that doing it completely privately is probably NOT be doable. It was certainly not doable the first time around back in the early 90s. I was very involved with one of the groups that competed for the franchise from the State of Texas. Our group was upfront and said it would require government assistance. The other group said they could do it without government assistance, won the franchise and, surprise, discovered they would need government assistance after all. And.. Scene!

So, Texas Central is at least the third group that's taken a good hard look at it, and . . .


It won't be a popular opinion in this state (or this forum I suspect lol), but I think its construction should be entirely publicly funded, much like DFW Airport was jointly funded by the FAA and the cities. It should be a joint effort between Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth (who should have a station as well), kickstarted by federal legislation boosting Amtrak's federal grant appropriations for the explicit purpose of laying high speed rail. Doing it through an established organization like Amtrak would clear some of the legal hurdles from the outset that a new, unproven group would otherwise face.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby electricron » 31 Aug 2022 15:25

IcedCowboyCoffee wrote:It won't be a popular opinion in this state (or this forum I suspect lol), but I think its construction should be entirely publicly funded, much like DFW Airport was jointly funded by the FAA and the cities. It should be a joint effort between Houston, Dallas, and Fort Worth (who should have a station as well), kickstarted by federal legislation boosting Amtrak's federal grant appropriations for the explicit purpose of laying high speed rail. Doing it through an established organization like Amtrak would clear some of the legal hurdles from the outset that a new, unproven group would otherwise face.

Amtrak can not raise the $100 Billion they need to put the entire NEC into a state of good order, where are they going to find an additional $20-$30 Billion to build HSR in Texas, and another $60-$90 Bullion to build HSR in California?
Suggesting Amtrak should take this project over is giving it a guaranteed death sentence.
Golly, Amtrak can not even afford running a single slow train per direction per day between Dallas and Houston today.

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Re: DALLAS to HOUSTON High Speed Rail

Postby art_suckz » 26 Sep 2022 16:12

Cbdallas wrote:Maybe just wait for a hyperloop project that connects Dallas Austin and Houston in a circulating triangle and build it all at the same time. Seems like this train will never happen and a hyperloop system might be able to connect directly to the urban centers of all three cities.


I've seen that most Hyperloop projects have stalled because they can't figure out how to make it turn corners or maintain a vacuum over a long distance. I think right now the only one with momentum is a cargo-only version so people don't get squished when turning but it seems like they will run into the same challenge with the vacuum seals.
To the man who only has a hammer, everything he encounters begins to look like a nail.