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TexRail

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Tucy
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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 18 Sep 2019 09:36

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: TexRail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 18 Sep 2019 17:07

Any particular reason why were seeing growth? Does anyone know if companies are providing passes to employees? This certainly is an encouraging trend.

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Re: TexRail

Postby dfwcre8tive » 18 Sep 2019 20:10

itsjrd1964 wrote:It took a *while*, but now the TexRail route has started appearing on printed maps as well as those on displays at train stations/transit centers. Some of the maps (not unlike for other routes) are more than a bit out-of-whack and not to scale.

20190918_004403.jpg

20190918_004424.jpg

This one is an inset of downtown Fort Worth.
20190918_004500.jpg

A printed version, on the back page of the latest DART rail timetable guide.
20190918_003931.jpg


DART needs to hire a proofreader. "Irving Covention Center"

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Re: TexRail

Postby Jbarn » 19 Sep 2019 16:48

Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Any particular reason why were seeing growth? Does anyone know if companies are providing passes to employees? This certainly is an encouraging trend.


And in the meantime, DARTS orange line train to and from DFW is virtually empty at all times, which is very discouraging. 95% of the people I talk to don’t even know it exists.

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Tivo_Kenevil
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Re: TexRail

Postby Tivo_Kenevil » 19 Sep 2019 17:28

Jbarn wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Any particular reason why were seeing growth? Does anyone know if companies are providing passes to employees? This certainly is an encouraging trend.


And in the meantime, DARTS orange line train to and from DFW is virtually empty at all times, which is very discouraging. 95% of the people I talk to don’t even know it exists.


It may have to do with the newness of it all.

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Re: TexRail

Postby TNWE » 20 Sep 2019 10:08

Jbarn wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Any particular reason why were seeing growth? Does anyone know if companies are providing passes to employees? This certainly is an encouraging trend.


And in the meantime, DARTS orange line train to and from DFW is virtually empty at all times, which is very discouraging. 95% of the people I talk to don’t even know it exists.


The TexRail numbers are for the whole line, not just passengers boarding or alighting at DFW. It's not really a good comparison, as the rest of the Orange line has much higher ridership. Most of the regular ridership is airport staff (vendors, TSA, flight crews) and their commuting patterns are pretty shift-driven. I've been on trains with lots of DFW-bound riders, and some that are basically empty - it's all about whether the train arrives/departs DFW around the time of a shift change.

I don't know what TexRail's numbers at DFW airport look like, but it's basically an identical travel time from Dallas or Fort Worth, so it's facing the same competition from Uber/Lyft as DART. The big difference is that TexRail has a better perception (newer, cleaner trains, a conductor & restroom on board, and fewer stops). Presumably, the Silver Line will benefit from the same perceptual bump.

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 21 Sep 2019 09:08

Jbarn wrote:
Tivo_Kenevil wrote:Any particular reason why were seeing growth? Does anyone know if companies are providing passes to employees? This certainly is an encouraging trend.


And in the meantime, DARTS orange line train to and from DFW is virtually empty at all times, which is very discouraging. 95% of the people I talk to don’t even know it exists.


With numbers like these, Tex Rail trains to and from DFW are virtually empty at all times too.

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tamtagon
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Re: TexRail

Postby tamtagon » 21 Sep 2019 10:36

It's depressing these routes have such low usage; it's uplifting these routes exist. It's up to the people to make sure land usage directives generate increased usage. There is only the lack of compelling, thoughtful neighborhood shaping to create pedestrian oriented 'front yard' infrastructure along the pedestrian oriented fixed transportation corridors with corresponding and symbiotic vehicular oriented 'back yard' infrastructure along the mirroring highways.

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Re: TexRail

Postby art_suckz » 23 Sep 2019 10:30

The DART train to DFW was scary af when I used it... a lot of people arguing and fighting with each other and the smell of urine was noticeable... When the train stopped at DFW, no one got off... they were just using it as a mobile shelter. It may have been because it was early morning and cold out when I rode it but that route is seriously messed up.
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Re: TexRail

Postby Jbarn » 23 Sep 2019 19:55

art_suckz wrote:The DART train to DFW was scary af when I used it... a lot of people arguing and fighting with each other and the smell of urine was noticeable... When the train stopped at DFW, no one got off... they were just using it as a mobile shelter. It may have been because it was early morning and cold out when I rode it but that route is seriously messed up.


No, that is the way it has been the vast majority of time I have ridden it to and from DFW also, scary and intimidating. But it is convenient for me, so I continue to use it. I can see how it would scare a lot of people from using it though. I seriously am not sure what DART’s officers do other than stand around on their cell phones. And I have been asked only 1 time to show my ticket, out of dozens of trips. DART needs some serious changes.

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muncien
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Re: TexRail

Postby muncien » 24 Sep 2019 09:37

Jbarn wrote:
art_suckz wrote:The DART train to DFW was scary af when I used it... a lot of people arguing and fighting with each other and the smell of urine was noticeable... When the train stopped at DFW, no one got off... they were just using it as a mobile shelter. It may have been because it was early morning and cold out when I rode it but that route is seriously messed up.


No, that is the way it has been the vast majority of time I have ridden it to and from DFW also, scary and intimidating. But it is convenient for me, so I continue to use it. I can see how it would scare a lot of people from using it though. I seriously am not sure what DART’s officers do other than stand around on their cell phones. And I have been asked only 1 time to show my ticket, out of dozens of trips. DART needs some serious changes.


Weird. The Orange Line (Beltline to Downtown) is pretty much the only DART route I use anymore. I only ride once a month or so, but I haven't experienced any of this along the route to DFW. It's a different story between Parkland and West End however... I have been threatened directly and indirectly along that stretch on multiple occassions.
Interestingly enough, I have also had my ticket requested almost every trip lately (typically around Love Field). But this is all on the weekend, mind you.
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electricron
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Re: TexRail

Postby electricron » 07 Oct 2019 05:17

Come on guys and gals, this thread is suppose to be about Trinity Metro’s TexRail - not DART’s Orange Line.

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Redblock
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Re: TexRail

Postby Redblock » 12 Oct 2019 02:15

Here is a Gordon Dickson article from the Fort Worth Star Telegram about possible interline operation of TexRail and DART's Silver Line. It also mentions a possible regional commuter rail agency under NCTCOG.


https://www.star-telegram.com/news/busi ... 06857.html

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muncien
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Re: TexRail

Postby muncien » 14 Oct 2019 10:08

A commuter rail network managed by NCTCOG makes perfect sense and would be great to see one day. I've always said that having a commuter network for the area is hugely important for creating a viable transit system, and having it operated by NCTCOG will allow DART to focus more specifically on improving it's own service area. With tech where it is today, cross platform ticketing should be a piece of cake. The only things I've always dreaded about multiple agencies is when they're ticketing doesn't work together. Let's hope they don't screw that up.
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TNWE
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Re: TexRail

Postby TNWE » 14 Oct 2019 10:55

muncien wrote:A commuter rail network managed by NCTCOG makes perfect sense and would be great to see one day. I've always said that having a commuter network for the area is hugely important for creating a viable transit system, and having it operated by NCTCOG will allow DART to focus more specifically on improving it's own service area. With tech where it is today, cross platform ticketing should be a piece of cake. The only things I've always dreaded about multiple agencies is when they're ticketing doesn't work together. Let's hope they don't screw that up.


Presumably it would look a lot like the current Regional fare- you buy a regional ticket for approx. double the price of a local fare from whoever operates the station you start at, then get "free" travel on the other systems you use, with the revenue allocated based on ridership or ticket sales. The other option would be to go distance based and remove the penalty for, say Grapevine <-> Addison/Cypress Waters travel. Currently, that trip would cost more than much longer trip from DFW to Plano or Fort Worth because of where they draw the zone line.


The only difficult thing is how to handle situations where someone with a Local monthly or annual pass makes the occasional regional trip. It would be nice if there was some sort of fixed "supplement" you could buy at any station to upgrade your Local pass to a Regional pass, just for the day. It doesn't seem fair to penalize regular riders by making them effectively pay twice for the "local" portion of their trip any time they want to go further than their regular commute.

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Re: TexRail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 14 Oct 2019 13:11

Also, DART isn't ever happy with focusing on Dallas. Having NTCOG take over a commuter line would leave DART confused on what its job is. They only know how to chase the suburban office worker. Plus DARTs current trains are commuter trains. They focus primarily on getting suburbanites into Downtown and back. Inner-city travel has never been DARTs strong suit and or focus. We have proven time and time again that DART chases those wishing to get into Downtown and out and rarely cares about getting people from Mockingbird Station to Victory Park for example. The whole technology package they choose is about commuters.

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Re: TexRail

Postby electricron » 14 Oct 2019 23:52

cowboyeagle05 wrote:Also, DART isn't ever happy with focusing on Dallas. Having NTCOG take over a commuter line would leave DART confused on what its job is. They only know how to chase the suburban office worker. Plus DARTs current trains are commuter trains. They focus primarily on getting suburbanites into Downtown and back. Inner-city travel has never been DARTs strong suit and or focus. We have proven time and time again that DART chases those wishing to get into Downtown and out and rarely cares about getting people from Mockingbird Station to Victory Park for example. The whole technology package they choose is about commuters.

What is so wrong with worrying more about commuters than inner city travel? Look at where DART gets most of its local tax funds from.
https://www.dart.org/ShareRoot/debtdocu ... Report.pdf
Look at page 54 specifically. I'll just list the revenues by city by percentages.
Dallas 50.1%
Plano 14.0%
Irving 11.3%
Richardson 6.1%
Carrollton 6.1%
Garland 4.9%
Farmers Branch 2.4%
Addison 2.3%
Rowlett 1.2%
University Park 0.7%
Highland Park 0.6%
Glenn Heights 0.1%
Cockrell Hill 0.1%
Take note that all the member cities suburbs generate 49.9% of DART local revenues. And that does not include potential suburbs like Grand Prairie, Coppell, Mesquite, De Soto, Duncanville, and Lancaster that are within Dallas County but are not member cities of DART.

If you want to discover why choices are made the way they were, try following the money. Money makes public transit possible. Take away the money, would public transit survive?

TexRail also has suburbs pitching in to help fund TexRail. Do not go around with the alms cup out expecting funds from the suburbs and then squeeze them out of the benefits of that transit project.

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Re: TexRail

Postby tamtagon » 15 Oct 2019 06:55

electricron wrote:
cowboyeagle05 wrote:Also, DART isn't ever happy with focusing on Dallas.

What is so wrong with worrying more about commuters than inner city travel?


By neglecting the inner city mobility, the transit agencies (TXDoT being the biggest perpetrator) fail to serve both populations, commuters and city dwellers. Overlooking inner city mobility is just as bad for the suburban commuter as it would be to omit suburban neighborhood connecting streets for the visiting city dweller.

It's way past time for a unified transit agency covering all of North Texas; If half cent from all CMSA counties went to regional public transportation and the cities use half cent toward local public transportation, that would leave $250 million operating budget for Dallas to manage a system that got people around the city's activity spots. Would that be enough?

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Re: TexRail

Postby electricron » 15 Oct 2019 08:46

tamtagon wrote:By neglecting the inner city mobility, the transit agencies (TXDoT being the biggest perpetrator) fail to serve both populations, commuters and city dwellers. Overlooking inner city mobility is just as bad for the suburban commuter as it would be to omit suburban neighborhood connecting streets for the visiting city dweller.

I do not agree that DART has been neglecting inner city mobility.
DART light rail system has a total of 64 train stations, 44 of them (69%) are within the city limits of Dallas. That's more than 2 out of 3.
DART bus system has a total of 121 bus routes with 14,000 bus stops, please do not suggest the vast majority of them are not located within Dallas.

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Re: TexRail

Postby The_Overdog » 15 Oct 2019 09:11

The raillines being built aren't even serving the suburbs passing through them well. Somehow the bus depots are even worse. It's one thing to say that they should get 50% of the service since they provide 50% of the budget but it's another thing to allocate that funding in a useful manner.

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Re: TexRail

Postby muncien » 15 Oct 2019 09:25

The_Overdog wrote:The raillines being built aren't even serving the suburbs passing through them well. Somehow the bus depots are even worse. It's one thing to say that they should get 50% of the service since they provide 50% of the budget but it's another thing to allocate that funding in a useful manner.

The Bus Depots are a total joke. They are a relic from the past. Why is there even a North Irving Transit Center anymore? Is there some beurocratic hurdle that DART needs to jump through to sell land? Can't the East and West centers be combined into a centralized depot at the current WEST location, with D1 and D2 connections, and DART HQ built above? Why does DART still own a MASSIVE parking lot adjacent to Parkland Station that is used solely by Parkland employees?!?! Should DART really be in the Real Estate business? Are they even any good at it? Seems like a poor use for 'transit' $$$ I don't mind them owning rail ROW for future projects or stations, but what they are doing now is not transit specific.
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Re: TexRail

Postby cowboyeagle05 » 15 Oct 2019 09:43

electricron wrote:
tamtagon wrote:By neglecting the inner city mobility, the transit agencies (TXDoT being the biggest perpetrator) fail to serve both populations, commuters and city dwellers. Overlooking inner city mobility is just as bad for the suburban commuter as it would be to omit suburban neighborhood connecting streets for the visiting city dweller.

I do not agree that DART has been neglecting inner city mobility.
DART light rail system has a total of 64 train stations, 44 of them (69%) are within the city limits of Dallas. That's more than 2 out of 3.
DART bus system has a total of 121 bus routes with 14,000 bus stops, please do not suggest the vast majority of them are not located within Dallas.


Yeah just because someone buys me a stationary bike doesn't mean I will lose weight. I am certainly appreciative they spent the money but it most likely will be a place to throw my laundry. DART has a habit of throwing stationary bikes at the problem of overeating at fast-food restaurants every day. Its a nice idea but it ultimately doesn't attempt to solve the problem. DART's transportation solutions serve Dallas transportation needs like a bigger belt helps that same overeater become a healthier person.

In an effort to serve the 49% they don't serve the 50% effectively at all and the suburbs still come out better winners since they have minimum service needs compared to inner-city travel and largely use the trains as trophies for "transit-oriented development" that we all know is more about a bullet point on a brochure than actual thoughtful smart city planning efforts.

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Re: TexRail

Postby muncien » 15 Oct 2019 10:15

Much of this conversation can probably be moved to a more appropriate thread later, but while it's here, I will chime in.

I don't think you can look at the DART service map and claim that the 'burbs are served better than the inner city (at least, not with a straight face). The comment about suburban 'trophy' TOD's actually shows DART provides more lip service to the 'burbs than actual service.
https://www.dart.org/maps/pdfmaps/DARTS ... 2aug19.pdf

As for the map (link above), we can argue that the level of service of those routes is poor (infrequent), but that holds true even more so in the burbs where major thoroughfares such as Macarthur see buses only once an hour on a weekday.

So, service is 'poor' regardless of where you are in the system... but Dallas clearly has much more of it. I is the core of the city, so I don't have any problem with that... I just don't agree with the continued sentiment that 'The burbs get all the service'. I find it to be blately false.
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Re: TexRail

Postby MC_ScattCat » 16 Oct 2019 14:00

I'd love to see the red line go to Cedar Hill. I know someone in their govt. and they still plan on having a dart stop there one day. I'd also like to see the blue line go to Rockwall. The green line should go to Balch Springs. Pipe Dream to see the red line go north to McKinney and a line from Carrollton to Prosper.

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 12 Nov 2019 08:59

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757

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bachmanlad
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Re: TexRail

Postby bachmanlad » 09 Dec 2019 05:30

A 33% growth in ridership in less than eight months of service! With no context, that sounds like great news, but I don't know what the projections were. I wonder if it has had an impact on bus ridership one way or the other.

BTW, Google Maps has finally made it visible on the transit layer.
Screenshot_20191209-050641.png
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Tucy
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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 09 Dec 2019 09:07

bachmanlad wrote:A 33% growth in ridership in less than eight months of service! With no context, that sounds like great news, but I don't know what the projections were.


The not-very-ambitious projection was 9,000 daily by the end of year one - at least 4-5 times the number they appear likely to achieve.

October numbers are now available. They are now up 27% over the first full month of regular service:

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943

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Re: TexRail

Postby electricron » 09 Dec 2019 11:44

Tucy wrote:The not-very-ambitious projection was 9,000 daily by the end of year one - at least 4-5 times the number they appear likely to achieve.


When seeking FTA funding, FWTA projected back in 2015 the following:
https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.d ... -FINAL.pdf

First year of operations 9,000 daily trips, 2,663,300 annual trips.
For 2035 14,700 daily trips, 4,325,900 annual trips.

On startup of the service, the press reported Trinity Metro's latest projections as follows:

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/pre ... ate-to-fta

to 9890 daily riders during first year to 18,100 daily riders in 2035.

Over time the numbers change, and who know how long these links will remain active. But in 10 years time, watch how much these numbers will change as history gets rewritten.

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Re: TexRail

Postby electricron » 09 Dec 2019 12:16

Tucy wrote:October numbers are now available. They are now up 27% over the first full month of regular service:

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943


Monthly numbers are great, but that does not reflect daily numbers well for most commuter rail operators who do not run all 7 days a week. But TexRail runs every day, and surprising attracts more riders on weekends vs workdays. So this makes our math easier seeking an daily average, we use the days in n individual month in our calculations. So
February 2019: 32,998 /28 = 1,178
March 2019: 39,093 / 31 = 1,267
April 2019: 33,589 / 30 = 1,119
May 2019: 35,878 / 31 = 1,157
June 2019: 39,154 / 30 = 1,305
July 2019: 41,818 / 31 = 1,348
August 2019: 42,637 / 31 = 1,375
September 2019: 43,757 / 30 = 1,458
October 2019: 41,943 / 31 = 1,353

Being as kind as possible, we'll use 9,000 vs 9890 as the projected first year ridership, and the largest month's daily average, let's see how well ridership is actually vs projected.
1458 / 9000 x 100 = 16.2%
or how much more actual to meet projected.
9000 / 1458 = 6.17 times

The 4-5 times someone estimated earlier falls slightly below actual. it's at least 6 times using the kindest data set.

But we still have a few months to go before the first year is completed. Maybe the Holidays will contribute to higher ridership! ;)

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 28 Dec 2019 11:34

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943
November 2019: 44,741 (1,491 per day; about 21 people per train)

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Re: TexRail

Postby Hannibal Lecter » 10 Jan 2020 10:39

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/traf ... 13403.html

But even so, the number of passengers riding TEXRail is nowhere near the level that transit planners and supporters originally forecast. According to documents filed with the Federal Transit Administration in TEXRail’s applications for federal grant funding, TEXRail was expected to have about 8,300 riders per day by the end of its first year.

But instead, today the typical TEXRail ridership is closer to 2,000 passengers per day — less than a fourth of the original forecast.

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 10 Jan 2020 13:37

February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943
November 2019: 44,741 (1,491 per day; about 21 people per train)
December 2019: 51,217 (per the FTW Star Telegram article linked above)

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Re: TexRail

Postby TNWE » 10 Jan 2020 14:40

Tucy wrote:February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943
November 2019: 44,741 (1,491 per day; about 21 people per train)
December 2019: 51,217 (per the FTW Star Telegram article linked above)

Does anyone know what the Jan 2019 ridership was (or if they even kept count)? I know it was free to ride last January, but given that it'll probably be a while before it even gets close to the projections, the next best measure of success would be whether or not TEXRail has created new, fare-paying transit users who tried it when it was free and continued riding after they implemented fares.

On a related tangent, I'm curious what effect (if any) it's had on TRE ridership to the airport? The two-bus connection from Centerport was terrible, but it did get used, mainly by employees. Unless you live really close to Richland Hills or Bell, I imagine TexRail is faster for anyone in Fort Worth or the Mid cities.

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 10 Jan 2020 17:35

TNWE wrote:
Tucy wrote:February 2019 ridership: 32,998
March 2019: 39,093
April 2019: 33,589
May 2019: 35,878
June 2019: 39,154
July 2019: 41,818
August 2019: 42,637
September 2019: 43,757
October 2019: 41,943
November 2019: 44,741 (1,491 per day; about 21 people per train)
December 2019: 51,217 (per the FTW Star Telegram article linked above)

Does anyone know what the Jan 2019 ridership was (or if they even kept count)? I know it was free to ride last January, but given that it'll probably be a while before it even gets close to the projections, the next best measure of success would be whether or not TEXRail has created new, fare-paying transit users who tried it when it was free and continued riding after they implemented fares.

On a related tangent, I'm curious what effect (if any) it's had on TRE ridership to the airport? The two-bus connection from Centerport was terrible, but it did get used, mainly by employees. Unless you live really close to Richland Hills or Bell, I imagine TexRail is faster for anyone in Fort Worth or the Mid cities.


98,582 in January 2019, which was not even a full month of operations. I don't think that number tells us much, other than that it was (a) free and (b) new.

Interesting question about the effect on TRE traffic. In January 2019, TRE total ridership dropped 7.69% from the previous year.

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Re: TexRail

Postby TNWE » 10 Jan 2020 18:12

Tucy wrote:
98,582 in January 2019, which was not even a full month of operations. I don't think that number tells us much, other than that it was (a) free and (b) new.

Interesting question about the effect on TRE traffic. In January 2019, TRE total ridership dropped 7.69% from the previous year.


Thanks for that info - Not really surprising, I guess, given the whole "price elasticity of Demand" thing from freshman econ. I definitely rode it during the free period just because it was there, and I saw lots of other people who appeared to be doing the same. The perpetual optimist in me says improving paid ridership from ~30% of what they had during the free period to ~50% over the course of the year is a good sign...

I guess we'll be able

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Re: TexRail

Postby Tucy » 10 Jan 2020 21:00

TNWE wrote:
Tucy wrote:
98,582 in January 2019, which was not even a full month of operations. I don't think that number tells us much, other than that it was (a) free and (b) new.

Interesting question about the effect on TRE traffic. In January 2019, TRE total ridership dropped 7.69% from the previous year.


Thanks for that info - Not really surprising, I guess, given the whole "price elasticity of Demand" thing from freshman econ. I definitely rode it during the free period just because it was there, and I saw lots of other people who appeared to be doing the same. The perpetual optimist in me says improving paid ridership from ~30% of what they had during the free period to ~50% over the course of the year is a good sign...

I guess we'll be able


-- Jan 2019 - Free - 98,582 riders in 22 days -- 4481 per day
-- Feb 2019 - First month of paid service - 32,998 riders in 28 days -- 1178.5 per day 26.3% of first month's.
-- Dec 2019 - 51,217 riders in 31 days -- 1652 per day -- 36.9% of first month's.

None of which tells us terribly much other than that, by its own terms, it's a miserable failure. The quotes from Trinity Metro in the linked newspaper article could have been written by the marketers of Museum Tower. I guess when they say that "by most measurements, TEXRail has been a success" they mean something like "we said we were going to build a rail line and we built a rail line." By any actual measurement, it's looking like a ridiculous waste of money.


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